Monument :: FFR Batch Submission
Hateandhatred - Monument - Ad Vesperum [5 / 10]
Dump Batch
PublicTokenEvents
Rejected
Got permission for it like a decade ago
The image included was a running gag over the 3 years we took to step this. We decided to include it in case you wanna make a token out of it, which would be a great honor. Even more so if the requirements have anything to do with Shotgun Surgery.

This was a collab between me and samurai7694.

Also in case the system removed the image, here it is:
https://i.imgur.com/7GRlBuP.png
It can be completely disregarded however, it is just a meme

- The sim folder name isn't as expected: "Monument (Hateandhatred & Samurai7694)" vs "Monument (Hateandhatred)"

- The sim folder contains additional files that can be removed. [ .jpg ]

- This file is a collaboration between multiple authors / stepauthors.

Simfile Folder Name

Monument (Hateandhatred & Samurai7694)

Note Count

4016

Chart Length

4:07

Average NPS

16.5472

Estimated Difficulty

94.13

First Note

0:05

Ending Note Delay

0:01

Hand Bias

x -72

Framers

0 - 0 1 - 0 2 - 0 3 - 0 4 - 1921

Jumps

x 859

Hands

x 314

Quads

x 2

Color Jumps

x 0

Color Hands

x 0

Color Quads

x 0

Most notes in:

1/3 of a Second
10 - 30.00 nps 0.5 Seconds
14 - 28.00 nps 1 Second
26 - 26.00 nps 2 Seconds
48 - 24.00 nps 5 Seconds
118 - 23.60 nps 10 Seconds
232 - 23.20 nps 30 Seconds
590 - 19.67 nps 1 Minute
1075 - 17.92 nps

Color Count

x 1708 (42.53%)
x 848 (21.12%)
x 832 (20.72%)
x 295 (7.35%)
x 318 (7.92%)
x 0 (0%)
x 0 (0%)
x 0 (0%)
x 15 (0.37%)

Largest Note Gaps

0.8s0.8s0.67s0.27s0.27s0.27s0.27s0.27s
35
28
21
14
7

Pass, this chart seems technically sound and probably acceptable but I don't think I can judge this without strong prejudice regarding how it's layered and patterned -- not a fault of the charters themselves more that I'm just super picky with JS.

ACCEPT -FR-

[FR] Giving this FR on the basis of a quick cleanup of layering and anchors for better consistency, and also fixing the egregiously off PR section that doesn't need to be.

18.080: Very long anchor on column 2 (13-notes).

25.147: Watch out for arbitrarily long anchors in this type of JS-heacy charting. Column 4 here has a 12-notes anchor.

33.680: Hand, there's a crash. There are a couple other inconsistencies like this such as: 40.480, 40.880, 42.480, 42.880, 44.080, 45.280. This section needs to be checked for layering.

1:07.278 & 1:09.678: Hands, every third 4th here is layered as a hand.

1:17.144 & 1:17.411: Why hands here?

1:24.611: Not a hand.

1:30.478: Hand.

1:42.876: Wrong PR, shouldn't have 4 consecutive jumps for this triplet jumpjack layering.

2:14.076-2:14.476: The crashes are on the 8ths here, there are other mistakes like that in this section: 2:10.876, 2:19.142, 2:21.107.

2:43.542 & 2:43.809: Wrong PR, should be like 2:41.942 & 2:42.209.

3:13.676-3:24.876 [FR]: The use of repeated (123)4 and (234)1 is very odd to play given that the notes clearly have different pitches. Imo this is too jarring and would need different patterning to drastically improve PR.

This chart has fun sections and makes for a great stamina challenge. However there are quite a few inconsistencies in the layering here and there. While it isn't my favorite type of chart/song personally, this has relatively good execution and with a quick polish could be pretty enjoyable. Despite the inconsistencies in the layering, the general intended variations of intensity on the 4ths and 8ths is nice considering how log and repetitive the song is.

Giving this file a reject from me.

There are couple of spikes here and there that could be ironed out - half of them are overly long anchors that you could cut it in half so it doesn't get to spiky, as this is pretty much a 225bpm jumpstream, which 10+ note anchors can be felt almost immediately on the players to notice, and the other half being insanely OH-trilly these sections are (1:58.476, for example), and even though you're trying to incorporate PR at some level, things like these should be at least more faithful to the playability, so you're going to have to compromise with breaking the trills apart and convey it with something else. (maybe make it two-hand trilly like the others)

As a personal note, I don't like the color usage of jumpstream being on the 24ths at times, so I think you might be better off to set the BPM to 1.5x on the original so all of your notes land on the 16ths. You can ignore this point though, I'm just not a fan of seeing constant 24ths as this song doesn't feel like a swing played into it.

samurai has the following to say:

"-While I do think it's fair to address anchor patterns being adjusted/removed, I'm genuinely confused and perturbed towards the rejection rating and the other reasonings behind it. I will admit to being out of the loop on current FFR judging standards and perhaps pattern choices such as anchors, one hand trills, jacks, etc. are seen as something to avoid rather than something to use in a chart whether for added difficulty or if the music calls for it. If there is some hidden rule that one hand trills warrant a rejection, so be it. Otherwise, with charts like Death Piano, Overklock, Bloddrunk [Heavy], White Walls Part 2, Thunder Light, etc. I'm inclined to believe one hand trills are still considered just a pattern that any player can simply improve on especially with the option to increase rates on FFR (or in another game with other similar charts) much like with wrist jacks, rolls, and so on. As for the "color usage" -- to keep everything as 16ths would not make sense in those 24th note sections. The meter is in 4/4 at 150 BPM because snare hits are typically beats 2 and 4 and the chord changes heard in the trill section almost always indicate the next bar. Admittedly, some parts that have 225 BPM are not right either. The other sections are set to 225 BPM to have it consistent with the climax of the song (the anchor-y/two handed trills + jumpstream part near the end) and therefore feeling like a fast 225 BPM in 3/4 time signature rather than 75 BPM in 4/4.

Again, it's fair to address the issue of anchors especially if it is a concern across the panel of judges and the rest of the players. I wish not to cause a quarrel regarding one hand trills and will respect whatever the overall consensus is for the use of them in FFR charts moving forward. Those issues however are merely quick fixes. Once those changes are implemented, all that's left is a personal opinion that contradicts what the music actually does and therefore the chart does not merit an outright rejection."

I endorse his opinion

Idk if the "personal opinion that contradicts what the music actually does" meant to include my points too, but the layering does have a fair amount of inconsistencies in how the same sounds are charted. With many of those, it gives a vibe of arbitrary-ness to some sections. But yeah, imo it's all fairly easy to fix hence my accept FR.

NOTE: This is just my opinion though, the decision isn't mine to make.

The samurai comment was in response to mipha, sorry for the confusion!

To samurai:

About my personal opinion with the color usage being 24ths and all, first of all I'd like to apologize for not making myself clear with my notes on this. I know it came across as very frustrating having to read through everything, but then having to deal with a note on the back end which you thought it wouldn't be fair for a rejection.

Like I said on my personal note, you can ignore that thought and I'd like to address that it doesn't affect my verdict on this file. My concerns of this file are pretty much just on the anchor usage and particularly jarring and spikes through the usage of OH trill embedded onto the PR, which drives me into this reject verdict on my end.

I know it seems a bit harsh to just give off a reject based on those two points alone, but it does really impact on how I enjoyed this file alone - it really strikes me as odd having to juggle with lots of trilling where there could be something to break the anchors up depending on the musical cues, so it does stick out as a sore thumb to me. The concerns I have applies through the entire chart too, so it requires a lot of changes to me (which is too much to be put under FR rating). Even if the PR is mostly right for most of the sections, I still do think there's some sort of compromise to make the anchor usage shorter or spreading out so it does still feel "complementing" the players' feel.

I've been following the discussion on this file as part of tracking the ratings given in this batch. Samurai's comment definitely raises an interesting discussion point. As one of FFR's lead judges and the guy who's giving the tiebreak/final decision on this file I think some discussion of my (very subjective!!) viewpoint on how FFR's charting meta has evolved may be warranted.

Colour usage is a somewhat subjective point overall, and I think this file's execution in this regard is good.

Anchors are an interesting case where I'm not certain the "meta" has shifted much at all, outside of ensuring they start and end at musically justified points. This file definitely has some spots that need to be touched up to do this, as well as (somewhat subjectively) shuffling around some presumed unintentional anchors, even within trill sections. This can get muddied a bit with the file's layering structure but the pattern choices can be smoothed out to accomodate this, and the file will feel better to play as a result.

Extended one hand trills are still a perfectly valid way to step a section, but in recent years have not been viewed as favourably by the FFR playerbase. They have very much been seen as either overly uncomfortable or an extreme difficulty spike for the near-universal spread playstyle playerbase. Charters are players, so there is a certain logic to our comparative lack of "modern" OHT-focused files. Or at least files that feature longer OHTs - shorter ones are still often used climactically.

This file takes an old-school-adjacent approach by making OHTs a central point of the overall difficulty. That removes spikiness from any single OHT by placing them all over the file, within jumpstream and explicitly on their own in a few spots. That is to say I'm fine with how this file uses OHTs but I also think it's likely this approach will get a mixed reaction similar to DIST SQUAD. (Though that was skewed a bit by being the D6 Round 7 file for this past OT)

I've decided to give this a comparatively thorough look, as I feel this is the file that most needs it most in this batch (isn't really like the dump files we were expecting). But it seems it can get there with detail work. I'm giving this a Reject rating because this needs a fair bit of general clean up that verges on needing structural changes and is too much for a Fixes Required rating. Song is great though, chosen structure is fairly reasonable but hindered by inconsistencies primarily with hand placements. I hope you resubmit this.

---

4.880 - 27.280 - Look into your hand use here, for consistency imo have them on either every crash or just the ones that coincide with the start of a musical phrase

8.547 - 9.214, 9.480 - 10.280 - the first seemingly unintentionally long anchors on 3 and 2 respectively
11.014 - (subjective, can ignore) should be jump imo, not as much of a bend as 10.614
14.014 - 14.814 - 2 anchor, suggest change-up at .280 to follow drums
18.080 - 19.680 - 2 anchor (same as Op noted)
25.147 - 26.614 - 4 anchor (same as Op noted)

33.680 - 46.480 - Same hand consistency thing Op noted
40.414 - (somewhat subjective) I only really hear vocal on this note, suggest removing
45.747 - missing

1:05.678 - 1:17.411 - hand consistency is an issue here
1:30.478 - hand (same as Op noted)

1:34.476 - 1:35.276, 1:35.809 - 1:36.609 - both 2 anchors that could be shuffled to follow music better (eg. keep 1:34.876 - 1:35.143)
1:37.543 - 1:38.609 - 3 anchor
1:40.076 - 1:41.143 - 2 anchor, but comparatively understandable

1:44.076 - 1:50.476 - same hand consistency thing
2:09.676 - 2:35.276 - same hand consistency thing, more noticeable because there are hands here that are an 8th off from where you want them (assuming going to crashes)

2:52.409 - missing
2:53.476, .609 - (very subjective, can ignore) could argue to remove these as the snare fill dies out

3:28.942 - 3:30.409 - 2 anchor, despite being in a trill section, this will still feel obnoxiously long
3:34.809 - 3:36.276 - same thing here on 4
3:37.676 - (subjective) might not want this as a hand

3:39.276 - 3:52.076 - same hand consistency thing, somewhat similar to 2:09.676 note
--3:41.876 - seems missing
--3:48.409 - seems like a ghost note