Old 10-17-2010, 09:30 AM   #1
TC_Halogen
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Default New Engine Suggestion

Disqualify any scores that use left or right on the engine. Way too many songs become a ton easier (Blooddrunk, Klung Kung 2004, anything with one handed trills).

I'd probably suggest removing the left/right mods from the game, as well.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:35 AM   #2
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

+1 for the same reasons
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:42 AM   #3
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

Blooddrunk yes can make it 10x easier for those who cant do one handed trills, Klung Klung not so much since it has one of each type of trill possible it in so there is no way around not hitting a one handed one. I wouldnt say disqualify the score, but yes most people would rather have it removed.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:45 AM   #4
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

If the options are equally available to everybody, why is it unfair if certain options make certain songs easier? Just also do it that way, and voila.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:51 AM   #5
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

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Originally Posted by devonin View Post
If the options are equally available to everybody, why is it unfair if certain options make certain songs easier? Just also do it that way, and voila.
Yeah, and completely forget about those who got the scores pre-left/right mods because you know, it wasn't available to them. How is that fair? Just like the argument with removing the blue-note songs in game - how is it fair that we had to work our butt off for the songs only to have them (potentially) removed?

Or how removing the background on P4U would be fair to those who AAA'd the song with the background?
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:53 AM   #6
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

I have to agree while it may make it easier for me to do the song now and many others there were so many people that worked their butts off to get those scores without the mods. It's kinda like giving a big FU to all those players by making a chart that would normally be a top 11 down to a VC. I like the left/right for fun on certain songs but I really don't think it should count in stats.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:07 AM   #7
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

As I am one of those players who had to work my ass off for songs like Blooddrunk, I am a bit biased towards not recording Left or Right modded scores. Although, my bias is probably not a good reason for actually doing it.

We will have to discuss this on our end for a bit.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:09 AM   #8
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

Yay the arguement that basically was the same as "Mirror" has arrived. Within 3 months, everyone will be okay with it!
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:11 AM   #9
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

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Originally Posted by TC_Halogen View Post
Yeah, and completely forget about those who got the scores pre-left/right mods because you know, it wasn't available to them. How is that fair?
What about mirror, speedmods, custom key setups?
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:13 AM   #10
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

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Originally Posted by nois-or-e View Post
What about mirror, speedmods, custom key setups?
I argued Mirror when it came out but no one did anything about it. Speedmods don't affect me - I can play songs on or below 1x without too much trouble. Custom key setups? I can AAA OMW on the arrow keys, lol.

I don't need any of these luxuries, but I've argued them before. It's unfair to player who got the scores without all of them.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:19 AM   #11
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

While mirror is arguable and has been for a while. It doesn't completely change the chart it just flips it. When you use left or right you are basically completely changing the chart. And while mirror may make some songs slightly easier left/right turns a really hard 11 into a 10 it's a pretty big difference.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:22 AM   #12
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

Its ok that you can still do songs without all of those things, but you need to look at it from other then what your able to do. Not everyone is like that and can go back to the 2004 or whatever year FFR was like that. You cant just nit pick EVERY LITTLE THING that is a possibility in ones ability to do a file better. Lets just resort to making all the files blue notes then while playing on 1x speed, on the arrow keys. Then there is no way anybody is getting scores unfairly because they find a few ways to make things easier for them.......
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

I'm not looking at things from what I'm able to do - I'm looking at it as a potential exploit for people who CAN'T normally get certain things. Take when the [Oni] list got revised - Radio Heads got removed off of the list; that was quite possibly the best song to get rid of from the [Oni] unlocks. Anyone who mirrors it makes all of the jacks right handed.

Then you have the people who normally can't do certain songs how they are properly charted, popping up on the high score boards because the option is available to them.

Whatever, I won't press the issue anymore. Another way I see it, it's a bit rude to the stepartist who tried picking intricate stepping patterns/techniques only to have the chart completely screwed up. At least on mirror, you can still understand why certain patterns go to certain sounds/aspects. Yes, this may be going too far, but that's just the way that I see it. Staff can figure it out from here. I'd also like to add that when the site was down, left/right was highly frowned upon for certain songs and was prohibited in any tournaments.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:27 AM   #14
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

I agree with disabling the scores, since the charts are pretty much completely changed
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:29 AM   #15
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

More options, more possibilities :/

Are we really going to remove the left/right mod just because it makes certain songs easier? Pretty dumb idea if you ask me..
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:29 AM   #16
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

Using left/right does completely change the chart, displaying it in a way the stepartist did not intend, which may be considered disrespectful to the artist. I am going to push for them to be removed.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:32 AM   #17
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

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Originally Posted by Sprite- View Post
Using left/right does completely change the chart, displaying it in a way the stepartist did not intend, which may be considered disrespectful to the artist. I am going to push for them to be removed.
That makes a bit more sense :O (Agrees with Sprite)

Blooddrunk didn't feel like blooddrunk :/
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:32 AM   #18
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

Having discussed it more with Sprite- I'm of the opinion that given a choice between disabling something as valid, or removing it, I come down on the side of removing it.

I also, having never played with left/right was under the impression that they were only scroll direction modifiers (like playing up or down) and that it would still go left/down/up/right just in a horizontal column and the stepfile would be the same.

Clearly there's more to it if it's actually modifying the way the stepfile is being presented to you. I'd go so far as to argue at that point, that you're no longer actually playing the stepfile as created by the step artist.

I'd remove the options rather than allow them but make the scores not count. That sounds both like more work, and a dick move. Every way the game allows you to play should count.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:35 AM   #19
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

If you're going to remove left and right, at least keep mirror. If a file has one handed trills for example, it's still going to have one handed trills, just on the other hand since it's flipped. It's not an unfair mod because if you think about it, what will players that are right handed or left handed do? Sure, others may have AAA'd the file without mirror, but that's because they were able to do everything and they didn't need it. A file with right handed jacks will be hard for someone that excels at left handed jacks. It's a bit unfair with one hand bias if you ask me (and I have experimented with mirror on files like RATO, some parts become easier but some other sections become a LOT harder as well).

And I do agree mirror changes pitch relevancy and all that technical stuff - but do you think the players that are trying to AAA the song care about "expressivemanias"? If they want to play the file like the stepartist wanted, they'll play without mirror. If they want to get the score they should be getting, they can use mirror.

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Old 10-17-2010, 10:37 AM   #20
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Default Re: New Engine Suggestion

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Originally Posted by psychoangel691 View Post
. . .mirror may make some songs slightly easier left/right turns a really hard 11 into a 10 it's a pretty big difference.
Mirror makes some songs easier. And just the same as with left/right, it wasn't available to everyone when the songs were released.
A lot of songs with left/right mod would create more one handed trills than it had to begin with anyway...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan_Bsk81127 View Post
Lets just resort to making all the files blue notes then while playing on 1x speed, on the arrow keys. Then there is no way anybody is getting scores unfairly because they find a few ways to make things easier for them
iirc, people were using screen flipping methods to replicate mirror before it was in-game. People that can't do something will always find a way to make it easier.

Disabling the scores for one song seems stupid. Might as well make it that you can't record any scores with any mods and the arrows must be going up so you can't ghetto mirror. . .
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