Would you be better than a disenfranchised demographic at handling their challenges?

[Kilroy_x]

So let's say you randomly woke up as a different race, class, gender, religion in a context in which your wellbeing and concerns were systematically treated as invalid, or worse, actively undermined by a dominant group. Would you be better at handling this than an average member of this demographic themselves?

I say yes. Granted my only experience is with being in a dominant social position, but I think I can make a reasonable argument based on purely abstract considerations. For example, I know that I am a very disciplined and awesome person. I also know that things like race, class, and gender have no inherent meaning. Anything that lacks inherent meaning clearly can't effect a person unless they let it. That's why I'm never effected by anything like disease, economic downturn, or natural disaster. These are all largely random and therefore meaningless events, and as such I rise above them because I have character and integrity.

Therefore, looking at the widespread difficulties of these groups, I can only conclude that they want to be disenfranchised. Probably because it's fun and trendy, and gives them an excuse to accomplish far less than real people and still claim equivalent worth as human beings. The idea of "special difficulties" or "context" is just a mythos invented to try and make this difference in worth seem acceptable by validating a culture of victimization.

I'm not trying to offend anyone here. I just don't understand this phenomenon of pseudo-disenfranchisement and want to learn more. I mean, race, gender etc. don't mean anything, so I'm just curious as to why certain races, genders etc let these things effect them in some sort of central way. I know I don't define myself by my race or gender. I don't see why everyone else can't be like me.

In conclusion, I'm pretty sure I've proven through logic that I'm better than all these people, whose challenges I will never face. This makes me feel better about my life and restores my faith in a just world, since everyone who experiences bad things deserves them for putting so much focus on the superficial.

[Rubin0]

I think it's arrogant to assume that you would handle any situation that you yourself have never experienced better than a person that has or is experiencing it.

[Kilroy_x]

Originally Posted by Rubin0

I think it's arrogant to assume that you would handle any situation that you yourself have not experienced better than a person that has or is experiencing it.

So what, I'm just supposed to take everyone's word for it when they whine about something not being their fault, or not being able to do something? You don't see the problems with that?

[Rubin0]

I wish you were more specific as to what group you are directing this? The first group that came to mind were paraplegics and people that are physically handicap in general. If you look at how society is set up, they have minimal accessibility to every day life. If I had to worry every single time I had to urinate whether I was going to be able to find a bathroom that would accommodate my problem, I would be pretty pissed off at the world.

[Kilroy_x]

Originally Posted by Rubin0

I wish you were more specific as to what group you are directing this? The first group that came to mind were paraplegics and people that are physically handicap in general. If you look at how society is set up, they have minimal accessibility to every day life. If I had to worry every single time I had to urinate whether I was going to be able to find a bathroom that would accommodate my problem, I would be pretty pissed off at the world.

So you're saying that every single establishment in the world has to spend untold dollars accomodating these freaks by building special bathrooms for them? You don't even know how they got to be paraplegic. For all you know it was through irresponsible and wreckless behavior. And even if not, even if they're some sort of disabled war veteran, they should be responsible for learning to adapt to the world rather than asking the world to accomodate for them. That's what everyone else has to do and they shouldn't get special treatment or privileges just for being different.

[Rubin0]

Are you being serious?

[Kilroy_x]

Originally Posted by Rubin0

Are you being serious?

Of course. What kind of point could I possibly be making by advancing this argument disingenously? It should be clear that I am completely serious.

[Rubin0]

When you use words like freak when referring to people that are handicapped I can't take you seriously. If you honestly think you deserve any sympathy or empathy for your own situation then you should really take a look at how you look at the rest of the world.

And with that I will not be responding to your posts any longer.

Edit: Listen it's obvious that you are being passive aggressive over previous posts in CT, but this kind of post will only fuel resentment towards you and people in your demographic. Your pretentiousness and the condescending way in which you express your opinions will not aid in changing people's minds about anything.

[Kilroy_x]

DERP

[Kilroy_x]

That reminds me. If minorities really want rights they shouldn't ever agitate or protest, because that's annoying. I blame the civil rights movement and the liberal mentality for this one, caving in to black people and setting a trend. The proper way for them to have earned their rights would have been for them to pay proper respect to their superiors until they elected to concede these rights to them. Y'know, saying yes'm and no'sah, referring to all white people as massah and averting their gaze in recognition of their inferiority.

[Kilroy_x]

I hate it when minorities compare their struggles to those of other minorities too. By the time you have a good example group, they're no longer minorities dumbass. They're part of the establishment, and therefore have every right to look down on you whereas you have no right to what they have, because they earned it and you didn't. Otherwise you would be part of the establishment too. This is just plain simple logic folks, GOD

[Organist]

It's easy to say that you could face someone's problems better than them, when given the situation that you suddenly "wake up" in their position. But seeing as that's in no way shape or form realistic, this argument is invalid. People act the way they act based off of past experiences, not gender, not race etc. But let's just assume that your scenario were possible. I don't understand how you're so easily able to assume that you could handle their situation any better than they could. When factors such as constant discrimination, bias, preconceived notions, and stereotypes come into play, it won't seem so easy after all. Also, to write off those who act disadvantaged in society in as "trendy" is, needless to say, beyond ridiculous. There's so much faulty logic in your original post, I don't know where to begin. Nor do I think I will, because judging from your last several posts, this isn't a serious thread.

[Kilroy_x]

Originally Posted by Organist

It's easy to say that you could face someone's problems better than them, when given the situation that you suddenly "wake up" in their position. But seeing as that's in no way shape or form realistic, this argument is invalid.

It's a thought experiment. It's meant to make you feel better as a non-minority at the expense of minorities.

Originally Posted by Organist

People act the way they act based off of past experiences, not gender, not race etc.

This is still a victim mentality, blaming your own actions on something beyond your control (in this case the past).

Originally Posted by Organist

But let's just assume that your scenario were possible. I don't understand how you're so easily able to assume that you could handle their situation any better than they could. When factors such as constant discrimination, bias, preconceived notions, and stereotypes come into play, it won't seem so easy after all.

Those things only effect you when you let them. If someone is racist to you, just ignore them. If you get fired for being gay or whatever, who cares. Don't let it hurt your feelings. Get another job. It can only upset you if you want it to upset you, and the only consequence of discrimination as far as I can tell is hurt feelings, so people need to grow thicker skins and just ignore all forms of discrimination without protesting or making a scene, and then the problem will take care of itself.

And even if you were right it doesn't matter anyways, because I would never get a chance to have the experience necessary to prove me wrong. As far as I'm concerned that's the same thing as being right, so there.

[Organist]

Easy to say for a pampered white kid ranting away on an internet forum.

Also, please continue to treat the topic at hand as objective.

sarcasm

[Kilroy_x]

Originally Posted by Organist

Easy to say for a pampered white kid ranting away on an internet forum.

Also, please continue to treat the topic at hand as objective.

sarcasm

Now isn't that hypocritical, claiming to want to move beyond class and race and then turning around and rubbing my face in the fact I have tremendous unchecked and unquestioned privilege. That's discrimination you know. All I'm trying to do is blame you for all of the circumstances of your life, and here you are trying to say that my unfamiliarity with those circumstances calls my credibility into question? That sir is preposterous and antithetical to the discourse I am trying to have with you.

[Organist]

Originally Posted by Kilroy_x

Now isn't that hypocritical, claiming to want to move beyond class and race and then turning around and rubbing my face in the fact I have tremendous unchecked and unquestioned privilege. That's discrimination you know. All I'm trying to do is blame you for all of the circumstances of your life, and here you are trying to say that my unfamiliarity with those circumstances calls my credibility into question? That sir is preposterous and antithetical to the discourse I am trying to have with you.

Point out where I "claimed to want to move beyond class and race" (whatever that means). When I point out that you're a pampered white kid ranting away on an internet forum, I'm stating a sad truth, not discriminating. As someone being white, I can truthfully say that I'm aware of the fact that I'm entitled to more opportunities than most others (of different gender, race etc.). What exactly is it you plan to achieve from this thread, anyway? If I recall correctly, Critical Thinking calls for in depth, intellectual discussion. From what I can see, all you've done is thought up an unrealistic scenario and rather than back up your argument with facts (or at least common sense), you use hasty generalizations and unnecessary name calling in order to attempt to get your points across.

[Kilroy_x]

Originally Posted by Organist

Point out where I "claimed to want to move beyond class and race" (whatever that means).

You're saying you're not opposed to racism and classism?

Originally Posted by Organist

When I point out that you're a pampered white kid ranting away on an internet forum, I'm stating a sad truth, not discriminating.

But I'm pointing out truth in the same way when I point out that blacks/gays/women etc occupy lower social stations because of a lack of effort or superficial sense of the importance of their status and are therefore inferior.

and realtalk anyways I make less than $3000 a year and live by myself in a ghetto that exists solely because of heterocentrism/cissexism so don't pretend to know me asshole

Originally Posted by Organist

What exactly is it you plan to achieve from this thread, anyway? If I recall correctly, Critical Thinking calls for in depth, intellectual discussion. From what I can see, all you've done is thought up an unrealistic scenario and rather than back up your argument with facts (or at least common sense), you use hasty generalizations and unnecessary name calling in order to attempt to get your points across.

I am engaging in In Depth Intellectual Discussion™, based on the topics here. "Is it wrong to be gay" and "Does your gender or sex define you?" both treat their subjects in the same way as this thread does so I don't see the problem. I mean, I pretty much thought this was the "question the validity of minority experiences" forum, so excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me princess.

[Kilroy_x]

Originally Posted by Rubin0

Edit: Listen it's obvious that you are being passive aggressive over previous posts in CT, but this kind of post will only fuel resentment towards you and people in your demographic. Your pretentiousness and the condescending way in which you express your opinions will not aid in changing people's minds about anything.

Cool story bro. Could you tell me what will? Because I'll be ****ed if I can figure it out.

[fido123]

I agree that a lot of minorities exaggerate how much their ethnicity or whatever impacted where they are today (although often this is not the case), however I think the idea that people shouldn't protest or speak up against such injustices such as how black people were treated when they were widely discriminated against, is completely ridiculous. The colour of their skin doesn't directly effect them, but when other people treat people differently based on the colour of their skin then yes, it DOES in fact effect them, and can (and did) hold them back. Sorry but reading your OP you seem pretty narcissistic and you're basically saying anybody who doesn't agree with you is a dumb ass. If you want people to take what you say more seriously you should be a little more respectful and open-minded.

It looks like you're just frustrated and need to perhaps come back tomorrow when you've cooled your jets as usually I agree with you but you're coming off as a bit of bigot right now.

[Reincarnate]

wow, so much stupidity ITT


This guy's trying to troll you all, and he's doing a really, really bad job of it