Suicide.

[UnkownMan]

Originally Posted by Shikari

Nice advice there, man. If I was a "whiny bitch", I would thank you. Seriously.

I fixed the original post.

[5.points]

Originally Posted by UnkownMan

People keep saying "well what if s/he has no friends". Maybe if they stop being a whiny bitch and actually talk to people, they'd get some.

With some personality disorders maintaining any kind of relationship is near impossible. As Darkshark said, would if all your friends and or family have died?

[Kesshutsu]

Originally Posted by Yieldsign

uhm what

I suppose the "meaning" in it for its perpetrator is that the onslaught of torment/pain ends.

not sure why something has to have "meaning" (which in itself is a really dubious term; i don't even know what you mean by that honestly) to be "valid" (and again, what does "valid" mean here? does valid mean meaningful?)

Believing I don't know anything about pain is hard.
Knowing I don't know anything about pain, might involve experiencing some pain.

But as for knowing about death, what does that have to do with experiencing pain?

[UnkownMan]

I have a personality disorder, yet I still have friends, because I know how to overcome. It's people who don't make an effort to, because they're all sad that let it get to them. It's not hard.

EDIT: I'm trying to explain this best i can without sounding like a douche, so I apologize if I am.

[Shikari]

It's not that easy for them, UnkownMan. Potentials suicides don't have mental "strength" to brace themselves and even try to keep on living. They're so destroyed that they just can't get up. So, telling them to "get a minimum wage job" or friends is useless.

[5.points]

Originally Posted by UnkownMan

I have a personality disorder, yet I still have friends, because I know how to overcome. It's people who don't make an effort to, because they're all sad that let it get to them. It's not hard.

I said some personality disorder and I mean MOST. People with Schizotypal personally disorder for example. They live completely isolated lives and personally disorder are extremely hard to do anything about, even with therapy and medications. It's more than just sadness.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Gravity Kitten

if your pen0r is small, it's okay.

wai m i not ded yet

Originally Posted by Gravity Kitten

o

UTHINKIMGAYBRO?

Originally Posted by Gravity Kitten

this is a thread about suicide
im not trying to become an hero.
-__

...if you're incapable of thinking critically (or at all), you really should stray away from a forum that asks you to take a legitimate stance.

Onto the topic of suicide - I want to stem off of Marcus' question here:

When is suicide "acceptable"? Where do we draw the line?

A major problem with this question is the fact that people pass off the potential predicaments that a person could have been in, and use the same general answer saying that it's selfish and that they could have talked to x people.

When a situation like this happens, I find it very difficult to believe that those who commit suicide can actually talk to someone, otherwise they probably would not proceed with the action in the first place. If there was a shoulder for a person to seriously and legitimately cry on, they would probably take it. It is also the very same reason why those who are typically "close" with the victim are in complete shock and agony because they never felt or sensed that they could commit such an action. It almost seems like the extreme pain within a person's mind is so much that a proper idea would be to physically (and permanently) eliminate yourself from everything else around you in an effort to stop anymore pain from entering your life. While this thought seamlessly fits into the definition of selfish, it's also logical at a basic level.

Now, I personally don't condone suicide in any form, because it's almost always true - a person who is in such pain usually will have SOMEONE they can turn to; they just do not realize it.

The only way I could see suicide as personally valid is if you somehow live through it. What meaning does suicide have then? As a meaningless act, there's no reason to do or not do it, or anything else.

By definition, this would no longer be a suicide. HOWEVER, I do understand where you're trying to go with this idea - if a person were to inflict so much pain to themselves only to not die, what would they do then? It would be meaningless in a sense, but I don't think it would detract future thoughts of suicide. If anything, it might make them even worse.

EDIT: Darkshark pretty much summed it up the same way I did before I finished my post.

[mhss1992]

People always do the things they consider most satisfactory. If they're truly depressed or have no expectation of a happy life, they might consider this to be the best thing to do, as they probably see their pain as something absolutely pointless and not worth enduring. In other words: stupid reasons.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by darkshark

What if you're going through a horrible emotional or physical battle, and you literally have no one to turn to. Say your mom abandons you, she hates you. Your dad died. You have no friends. You spend each day in solitude and do nothing but think about the horrible things happening in your life. No one would care. Would you end it? After all, people don't show they love you until you're gone.

darkshark: This description actually applies to me. I've always had some sort of emotional/physical struggle going on -- my mom abandoned the family and my father was killed. I had friends, but in many cases, they were surface-level -- and my true friends were few in number. I also went into a fairly large debt (luckily I am able to afford it with my job and everything) because of the stuff that went on with my family. Friends may be present, but they may be too uninvolved or scared to GET involved. They may not be able to really provide much solace. Counselors may come across as mere venting-receptacles. Even if you reach out to those closest to you, sometimes it just isn't enough.

I've contemplated suicide a few times, to be honest -- but in recent years, those thoughts have gone away as I've gained more friends, a girlfriend, a new life, an education, revisited hobbies, etc. Life is good again.

During those dark times when I've felt alone and burdened, suicide felt like a VERY attractive, viable option. When you feel very alone in the world with nobody who can empathize with your way of thinking -- or when everything in your life seems to be out of your control and going downhill -- it can be very tempting to just put an end to your misery, especially if it's chronic. But the thing that kept me from ever doing it was the notion that pressures are often temporary. Whenever things get dark, they always get better later if you are willing to reach out and either get help or work to improve your situation in some way.

[5.points]

Originally Posted by mhss1992

People always do the things they consider most satisfactory. If they're truly depressed or have no expectation of a happy life, they might consider this to be the best thing to do, as they probably see their pain as something absolutely pointless and not worth enduring. In other words: stupid reasons.

Would about people with drug addictions?

My aunt was severely addicted to narcotics and went through several rehab programs and none helped her. When she committed suicide she left a short note about how the drugs were going to kill her anyway. Drugs that are dangerously addictive can bring any strong minded person down to nothing. Once you've gone so far, you're literally left with nothing, no money, no friends, no one wants to be around you, you most likely never to get a job, no self confidence whatsoever.

I know that things like drug addictions start with the foolish action to start but what I'm trying to say is that suicide is caused by more just depression and sadness.

[Oni-Paranoia]

Here's an argument:

I had friends, I had a home, had a mother who cared deeply and a sister who was always there for me. I mingled with the girl next door for about half a year until **** hits the fan and after a week or so of cutting I really felt that it really wasn't for me. But even with all those resources, I attempted suicide. Now I'm curious to see if anyone can figure out why. I was 13 at the time*

[Yieldsign]

Originally Posted by Kesshutsu

Believing I don't know anything about pain is hard.
Knowing I don't know anything about pain, might involve experiencing some pain.

But as for knowing about death, what does that have to do with experiencing pain?

sorry, I really can't deal with your incoherency. try to articulate your thoughts in a way that makes sense, because honestly this doesn't

[Yieldsign]

and here's my stance:

regardless of whether or not suicide is selfish, it is always acceptable/permissible, and our legislation should reflect that. in the end, there is only one person who has control over his own life, and that is himself.

i think the implications of prohibiting suicide are frightening. you're essentially legislating "psychological harm" which is, at least for NOW, far too dubious and arbitrary to incorporate into law in such a manner.

[Kesshutsu]

I agree.

[5.points]

Originally Posted by Yieldsign

and here's my stance:

regardless of whether or not suicide is selfish, it is always acceptable/permissible, and our legislation should reflect that. in the end, there is only one person who has control over his own life, and that is himself.

i think the implications of prohibiting suicide are frightening. you're essentially legislating "psychological harm" which is, at least for NOW, far too dubious and arbitrary to incorporate into law in such a manner.

Of course it's "permissable". It's impossible and stupid to think that you can legally prohibit a person from doing something to themselves.

Don't you at least think there should be as much prevention from suicide as possible?

[Yieldsign]

you'd be surprised at how many people DON'T think it's stupid. It was only until the 90s that all US states annulled their laws concerning suicide... not to mention the entire religious population that has a strong stance on suicide.

I also certainly do NOT think it is impossible to think that you can legally prohibit a person from doing something to themselves - drug legislation?

Anyway, of course I think suicide should be discouraged and proper counseling and psychiatric evaluation/care should be given to someone who is suicidal - but I'm not sure that it should be compulsory. It's a murky issue... I haven't given too much thought on the extent that compulsory prevention should play.

[5.points]

I also certainly do NOT think it is impossible to think that you can legally prohibit a person from doing something to themselves - drug legislation?

I suppose you could say that there are laws against doing things that involve doing things to oneself. However, you can't physically control the actions that anyone dose unless you are in some kind of institution and/or being constantly watched. Most drug laws prohibit the possession of said drugs.

[Yieldsign]

I agree - you're mostly preaching to the choir, because I don't think suicide legislation is at all sensible... I only wanted to make the point that many people do.

[Aldentron]

I have been diagnosed with bipolar depression for almost two years now, of course I always had it.

To this day, almost every time I run out of my medicine, I think of suicide. I think that it would be a selfish thing to do. Who knows what I can accomplish in the future? To take my own life would be shutting doors in the face of people that possibly need me.

Psychiatry is educated guess work. While you may have a prescription from your doctor, those specific pills or that specific dosage may not be the right one for you. Luckily it didn't take long for my doctor to figure out the right medications and dosages for me, and I feel much better when I take them. If you find yourself seeing a psychiatrist and are prescribed medicine that doesn't seem to work, don't give up. Just make sure your psychiatrist knows that you still feel depressed and they will likely try something different.

On another note, would you consider martyr-ism or sacrifice a form of suicide? That is the only way I can see suicide as not being selfish, as in leaping in front of a bullet to save a friend or push a child out of the way of a speeding car.

[mhss1992]

Originally Posted by 5.points

Would about people with drug addictions?

My aunt was severely addicted to narcotics and went through several rehab programs and none helped her. When she committed suicide she left a short note about how the drugs were going to kill her anyway. Drugs that are dangerously addictive can bring any strong minded person down to nothing. Once you've gone so far, you're literally left with nothing, no money, no friends, no one wants to be around you, you most likely never to get a job, no self confidence whatsoever.

I know that things like drug addictions start with the foolish action to start but what I'm trying to say is that suicide is caused by more just depression and sadness.

How exactly does that not qualify into the things I described?
She decided to commit duicide because she believed that there was no hope left, thinking it was pointless to keep trying.