TWG CLXXIV - Sounds Like You've got a Problem. - Game Thread

[star-crossed]

I wanted to leave this out of my last message because it was on a totally different subject, but I just had the thought that the mafia could have Funnygirl had a role because of the "regardless of my role" comment. (Basically for the same reason some people sussed her for it, I can see how somebody may think she had a unique role from it, because of her thinking about how she would be as different roles).

Also, I realized I missed a lot of raeko's posts on page 15 and page 16 (actually, I think that I only saw her roundbox read, because I saw somebody else quote just that part of it). But it is actually not true, that she did not try to talk to anybody, since she at least asked for someone to tell her about the slip (even if it was not anybody directly) and was talking to somebody about a movie. I kind of don't like in #289 her saying that she wanted to make a "reasonable" vote. It sounds more like somebody wanting to make a vote that sounds good to other people. And after she made a big point of mentioning wanting to make a vote, she did not actually ever make one. (If she is a mafia, I am assuming the other mafia(s) would mostly not being voted.)

It is interesting to me, that she had the opposite vibe of sun fan from me. I think raeko's point about Funnygirl being contradictory was a good one, that I actually may have wanted to follow on if Funnygirl weren't dead (even though it was wrong), so I am actually surprised that raeko seems reluctant to really suss it. I am wondering if it is normal for her, to be doubting her feelings that much.

roundbox (#381) said her not voting probably did not mean much, but I am wondering why.

Also, who is TWGma? They do not seem to be on the list of players.

I feel like there are a lot of people in this game that I have not paid enough attention to, but the main person that I have been trying to pay attention to and do not really have a lean on, would be blind. It feels like he just kind of shows up randomly to say something short and controversial. I guess I would say, that his overall activity feels more evenly spread out than when he was a mafia in the turbo. I do like that a little bit, as it doesn't feel to me like he feels really awkward about coming up with things to say in general, or that he feels like he has to come up with something to fight about with somebody. But he is too quiet, for me to feel more strongly about that.

[Gradiant]

Originally Posted by TWGma

Spicy.
What have Ben and I done to already make you give me a town lean? As well, why to roundbox and raeko get the wolf lean?
Our posts from D0 feature nearly the same amount of content, minus roundbox because he gave an effort.
D1 is pretty much more of the same.

There's more I could nitpick at with this list, but those stick out to me.




//inb4"But they're NULL reads"

I'd like him to explain all of his reads in his list. love how he pinged me out really early when i was playing another game for a bit, but it's past the first phase now and there's almost no effort with any of his posts so far.

[Gradiant]

TWGma is t-force, starcrossed

[Gradiant]

thanks for putting good use to manti's slot btw star-crossed, i'll read those posts in a tiny bit

[the sun fan]

inD had posted two reads that I thought were both original and unlikely to have been made up, one was on funnygurl and I don't remember the other. Most of his posts were short but to the point, and I felt like I liked most of what he was saying. Idk if I'd call him the most solvey player, but I def thought he was doing a lot of reading.

I like the post and I like the vote though. If I am wrong in my town circle, which is the feeling I've had, then I think inD would be a good place for me to look first.

inD

(someone should still make raeko do things though)

[the sun fan]

the part about inD talking about the votes on him relating to his self-worth is like
never, ever made up imo

[the sun fan]

hit send too soon; that's a real read if I've ever seen one imo and she's prolly town for it if that was all that post was

[the sun fan]

ok I'm going to bed for real this time bye

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

When he comes back in at page 4, I do not really get what he was meaning by "feeling like a bad person" or "shitpost-hunting" and why the latter is weird (he does explain it to the sun fan later but I still do not get it). And I found it kind of awkward, that inDheart and the sun fan had strong opposite reactions to what was happening with Force and Funnygirl. It was still fairly jokey at the time and like they were maybe trying to test Force and Funnygirl, but from reading it I felt they had taken different 'sides' to it but were waiting on the others' reactions, not trying to get a feel from one another on it.

eh sunfan's side probably more important here. i voted funnygurl as a joke on her saying she was a wolf in her first post because i've seen her do that before even as a wolf, and i wasn't taking sunfan's vote very seriously either

Originally Posted by star-crossed

In #104 (pg. 6), inDheart makes his first lean of sorts, that sun fan and WV were awkward. Two things stood out to me about that. One is that when Pusheen was wanting to know what awk meant, inDheart posts a dictionary thing, which seems strangely aloof, and like he did not really want to talk more about it. (I am trying to decide if that is good or bad weird - it could be a town that can't really put words to it yet, or a mafia that is worried he will sound bad if he explains it). The other is that inDheart made a similar first theory when he was a mafia in the turbo I played with him, where he pointed out that two people seemed to be unaligned to him, but he did not explain why. In this game, he also zeroed in on an interaction between two people without giving further commentary. So from that, and him making lots of posts, I see him as having a more similar attitude at the start to when he was a mafia, than when he was my hydra partner.

i was actually just kind of surprised to find "awk" in wiktionary because i didn't know it had as extensive of an etymology as i pasted, and the thing you usually get when you google is the programming thing reuben posted after me

i didn't explain it right then because i thought i'd started that with the "shitpost-hunting" post, and i was still trying to figure out what to do with my reads on them because it didn't feel like anything worth reading them on, but it still felt weird

Originally Posted by star-crossed

In #150 (pg. 8), inDheart said "pretty sure i'm winning the lynch right now though so i don't know with what authority i make this post," which seems like he is kind of defining his self-worth by how much people want to hang him, which seems like something mafia care more about than town.

i don't think people play with their food often when they're set on other people being wolves. i was fully expecting to not be taken seriously because i thought i was leading in serious votes by then

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I did like #211 (pg. 11) where inD talked about wanting to have more pressure votes. It gave me a warm feeling. But then I felt let down, when he noticed there were more messages, that there wasn't more pressure and questioning from him.

if you mean when i noticed more messages in the very next post because sunfan posted while i was writing, that made me feel good actually because it's exactly what i was calling for, so it's not like i was going to question him on that. he had enough of a reason for it even though wabby wasn't in the group i named

Originally Posted by star-crossed

The above post from pg. 13 confused me, because the last sentence seems to conflict with the first sentence, in a mollifying way. Like he is confused, but still wants to drop the conversation. (Since Funnygirl was a town, I am not sure there is a specific reason for him to want to drop it as a mafia, but it still gave me a weird feeling.)

i had been confused as to when funnygurl would have seen me play and it's because i lived for such a short time in the game she mentioned, which other people keep saying was a good game from me, so i thought it validated what funnygurl thought about me as a player and decided to drop it

Originally Posted by star-crossed

But the more interesting part of #251 to me, is his lean that inD is a town "mostly for his solviness." I would like to know why sun fan thought inD was seeming particularly "solvey". Wineandbread (I forgot his name actually and had to look it up...), sun fan and MML, are the people that come to mind more for that. I do not feel most of what inD has posted, would be hard to come up with as a mafia, and if I am missing something with that I would like to know what. This lean concerns me particularly, because what I remember sun fan reading inD based on in my turbo with both of them, was whether inD seemed "like a man on a mission," and it sounds to me like sun fan's tactic for that changed. So I would like to know more about why he is looking for that with inD.

i'm spoiling this hoping sunfan reads it after he posts

there's probably some truth in using that read on me but it's colored by two wolf games ago (the turbo celirra hosted) where i was literally on a mission to lynch specific people so i didn't insta-lose

Originally Posted by star-crossed

This was from page 20. I did not really get what he meant by leverage. I don't like his comment about Pusheen, because it seems like a very passive (as in kind of manipulative, rather than actually invested in it or wanting to be more direct) way of discounting sun fan's feeling that Pusheen could be a town. sun fan had a whole ramble on the previous page, of how Pusheen seemed different, and inD focused on "agreeing" on an aspect of it that was actually seeming to go against sun fan's conclusion that Pusheen may be a town. So inD framed it as agreement, despite that 'agreement' basically implying that sun fan should give up his feeling. (Actually, I am having trouble seeing that as being from two mafias talking to each other, so I think I may have read into them not talking to each other at the start too much.) Especially since sun fan follows up with inD, asking to make sure inD gets sun fan's meaning, while inD seems to keep passively doubting WV (#394, pg. 20).

yeah and i think sunfan was reading it the same way, given he asked me if i understood what i was agreeing with

the way i read his post, he wasn't giving a read on wv so much as saying that he's playing the game differently from one of his wolf games

i followed up with something about how wv can vary his game in general - if i recall correctly his first two town games were rather different, the second one he nearly outposted everyone and looked super towny

i'd been trying to talk to wv a bit, but he did things like ask me what "awk" meant and kinda jokingly requested pressure instead which made me think he didn't want to engage seriously on those early posts i thought had that "weird" feeling to them. might be a bit my fault for responding to him literally on "awk" though

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I am confused by the first part still.

i think job number one for the wolves in this game is to kill other players that are potential power roles, and so if they kill funnygurl thinking she has a special role it might also have the side effect of making mml look bad for pushing her yesterday

Originally Posted by star-crossed

dadv?

abbreviation for dead air/dead villager, referring to how slow the game was during the end of yesterday and that probably means wolves are content with the lynch options

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

hit send too soon; that's a real read if I've ever seen one imo and she's prolly town for it if that was all that post was

you hit it so soon i thought that post was about me and then wondered why the vote

[star-crossed]

There are a lot of things I like in Wine's #191 (pg. 10).

I liked him going through sun fan's first leans, as kind of a way to focus on giving thoughts, and that he had reactions to the blind and inD ones (somewhat of a "mindmeld" as they like to say on the Mafia Universe). Him qualifying what he didn't like about sun's blind read ("I don't really agree with this, mostly the mad for dumb reasons part") sounded casual and also thoughtful.

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

Bolded: I'm not sure where you are referencing this, but the statement reuben is quoting here also confused me as well. If it is some bill wurtz reference then I guess we both missed it

Underlined: Where were you trying to go with this exactly? I pretty much glossed over that post completely. More specifically why did that post make you feel WV was awk?

This line of questioning seems thoughtful to me. With the first paragraph, I think it is more likely that a town would forget they were confused by something and be glad to be reminded of it, as it seems here. And I like the second part even more - I feel like 'why is this important to you' is a good question to be asking, and I feel that Wine sounds self-assured in what he himself thinks is important, by saying that he glossed over it. (And this is a good contrast with another part of the post, where he seems very interested in someone else's interpretation, as I am about to discuss).

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

fwiw I didn't find that exchange awk. I kind of see where you're coming from but that early into d0 it's too hard to tell for me. I'll keep this in my notes though for later on.

I've been told I have poor social skills though so maybe the awk is passing through me like neutrinos

This seemed very genuine to me. I do not see a mafia wanting to go add something that sounds awkward to somebody else but not them, to their notes. The second line in particular, does not seem like something somebody would even think of as a mafia.

-

I kind of like, that Wine was (joking?) about wanting to only make 4 posts, but exceeded his own expectations by a lot, and was making very big, thoughtful posts. It seemed like an inside joke with himself, instead of an excuse to be quiet.

-

One thing I was unsure of in #197 (also pg. 10), was why Wine did not wait until roundbox explained if roundbox was joking, before asking ben what answer he would prefer. I think that would be a good tactic if they are both mafias. Except, that I thought Wine was the one that posted the lean that roundbox was a town because of roundbox seeming very genuine with how he brought up and shut down the PR discussion, which I thought was a pretty thoughtful read and probably was something that the person that wrote it believed (so, Wine would likely not be a mafia with roundbox). Except, I can't actually find the post now, and I am annoyed. Does anyone remember what I am thinking of, and can confirm who wrote it?

I may come back to talking about Wine, once that is figured out.

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

One thing I was unsure of in #197 (also pg. 10), was why Wine did not wait until roundbox explained if roundbox was joking, before asking ben what answer he would prefer. I think that would be a good tactic if they are both mafias. Except, that I thought Wine was the one that posted the lean that roundbox was a town because of roundbox seeming very genuine with how he brought up and shut down the PR discussion, which I thought was a pretty thoughtful read and probably was something that the person that wrote it believed (so, Wine would likely not be a mafia with roundbox). Except, I can't actually find the post now, and I am annoyed. Does anyone remember what I am thinking of, and can confirm who wrote it?

I may come back to talking about Wine, once that is figured out.

i found two posts which i think could be that, either wineandbread or sunfan

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

Busy with something but I'll say this, rb looking much better now

Should be around in about 15min

Originally Posted by the sun fan

nah, I get what you're saying

I've literally had the first post in a c9++ be me saying that there wasn't an inno child; sometimes people have a real hardon for setup stuff, especially in c9++.

If it matters its not going to be something I'm going to be able to catch someone on, but its def not at all helpful

I can /kind of/ read it in roundbox's voice and it /kind of/ feels like something he would feel like he needed to nip in the bud so I'm aite with it

[inDheart]

could also be me but i don't think my post had as strong a feeling on roundbox just from that

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

I will say that IF YOU ARE VOTING FOR WV OR WNB RIGHT NOW YOU ARE FUCKING UP

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

My issue with Funny was not the Xel thing God Damn it people

i'm interested in these posts because i found em while on that other errand

like i think to some degree we're collectively responsible for not wagoning up, but this seemed to be the first idea that all the wagons were terrible yesterday and mml seemed least happy to settle while sunfan/roundbox were talking rough compromise

i think it's a good look for him

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

While this isn't something RoundWolf couldn't say, not sure he would say it this soon/in this situation. This is a man trying to preemptively stop a Bullshit tangent and not someone trying to disagree because he knows his town self would.

Call it a hot take but I like Roundbox a little more

Actually wait, MML said it, but he said it while still reaffirming his vote on Roundbox(?), and was less certain about it from how I remembered it (I think I got that from the second sentence).

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Actually wait, MML said it, but he said it while still reaffirming his vote on Roundbox(?), and was less certain about it from how I remembered it (I think I got that from the second sentence).

he didn't have a vote by then

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by inDheart

i didn't explain it right then because i thought i'd started that with the "shitpost-hunting" post, and i was still trying to figure out what to do with my reads on them because it didn't feel like anything worth reading them on, but it still felt weird

The awk part makes more sense now that you explained it, thank you, but I am a bit confused still on the "shitpost-hunting" bit of it. Why did you think, it was not worth reading into? And why did that warrant you calling yourself a "bad person"?

Originally Posted by inDheart

i don't think people play with their food often when they're set on other people being wolves. i was fully expecting to not be taken seriously because i thought i was leading in serious votes by then

Umm...what does playing with food have to do with it? I am having trouble getting, why you would be concerned that much with that when it was still so early in the game. It is not like you had 6 people voting you or anything, or much reason to be thinking that their perception of you would be colored that much, if you are making good arguments. It makes more sense to me that somebody who is feeling 'caught out' may be more sensitive to that.

Originally Posted by inDheart

if you mean when i noticed more messages in the very next post because sunfan posted while i was writing, that made me feel good actually because it's exactly what i was calling for, so it's not like i was going to question him on that. he had enough of a reason for it even though wabby wasn't in the group i named

Umm, I meant more over the course of the next two pages. You did talk to funnygirl on the one subject, but I did not feel like you made that much effort to put more pressure on others after that despite expressing you wanted to have more power to be able to do that, if that makes sense.

Originally Posted by inDheart

the way i read his post, he wasn't giving a read on wv so much as saying that he's playing the game differently from one of his wolf games

i followed up with something about how wv can vary his game in general - if i recall correctly his first two town games were rather different, the second one he nearly outposted everyone and looked super towny

I can see why the stuff in the second paragraph, would be important for you to mention, if you are a town. But I am still hesitant, because of how you phrased it as "agreement" when it did not really make much sense in context as an agreement, even if you don't take it as sun fan giving a read on Pusheen. And it wasn't until a later follow-up that you explained more, on him having variant games. You basically just said that you expected he would act differently in a turbo than in this game.

Originally Posted by inDheart

i think job number one for the wolves in this game is to kill other players that are potential power roles, and so if they kill funnygurl thinking she has a special role it might also have the side effect of making mml look bad for pushing her yesterday

I am just not really relating to this thought process, but maybe it is because I am still trying to learn to think on the extra levels of hints and outhinking and such other people are on, regarding who the mafia will kill and who is a role.

Originally Posted by inDheart

abbreviation for dead air/dead villager, referring to how slow the game was during the end of yesterday and that probably means wolves are content with the lynch options

Huh, ok. Why do you think it looks bad for sun fan specifically, regarding that?

Now that I think about it, the "dead air dead villager" thing, fits with how our hydra game went. It was definitely the most boring, on D1 and after we died, I feel. But for this game, it was hard to get a sense of how dead it was, from reading everything all at once and not being there. So it is important to think about I think.

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by inDheart

he didn't have a vote by then

Ohhh, it just highlighted it in bold/red because I searched for "roundbox," I guess? They should pick a different highlight color.

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

hit send too soon; that's a real read if I've ever seen one imo and she's prolly town for it if that was all that post was

"all that post was"?

If you are meaning what inDheart posted, it was this one

Originally Posted by inDheart

i don't really know who would award town points for that but yes let's not

pretty sure i'm winning the lynch right now though so i don't know with what authority i make this post

And I will look again after I sleep, at inD's read of funnygirl.

You seem kind of..amped, about my post, from how you followed my vote. Which I appreciate, I think, but I would like it if you would look over it more in the morning and give more specifics thoughts, especially to the other parts about you. It may be that you just didn't have time because you wanted to sleep, but I am a bit concerned, that your enthusiasm is because you are hoping to "pocket" me with it (I think that's what it was called?).

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

The awk part makes more sense now that you explained it, thank you, but I am a bit confused still on the "shitpost-hunting" bit of it. Why did you think, it was not worth reading into? And why did that warrant you calling yourself a "bad person"?

i had a vote on wv for most of the rest of the day and felt like other people weren't seeing whatever same thing i was seeing, after talking to sunfan, wabby and others about it. it's not like i dropped it right away

the entire "bad person" post is a bit of a meme (short video) because wv's serious response to what looked like a funny post from sunfan was strange to me

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Umm...what does playing with food have to do with it? I am having trouble getting, why you would be concerned that much with that when it was still so early in the game. It is not like you had 6 people voting you or anything, or much reason to be thinking that their perception of you would be colored that much, if you are making good arguments. It makes more sense to me that somebody who is feeling 'caught out' may be more sensitive to that.

fair enough, i did feel like i was being voted for bad or nonexistent reasons though which probably contributed to the feeling i had

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Umm, I meant more over the course of the next two pages. You did talk to funnygirl on the one subject, but I did not feel like you made that much effort to put more pressure on others after that despite expressing you wanted to have more power to be able to do that, if that makes sense.

i don't really have an explanation for this other than i had been hanging out in the city with people and was still a bit tipsy and on a train and not reading the thread diligently until later, even if i really was then

out of the people i named, manti and force didn't post at all, so i had nothing to read them on anyway

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I can see why the stuff in the second paragraph, would be important for you to mention, if you are a town. But I am still hesitant, because of how you phrased it as "agreement" when it did not really make much sense in context as an agreement, even if you don't take it as sun fan giving a read on Pusheen. And it wasn't until a later follow-up that you explained more, on him having variant games. You basically just said that you expected he would act differently in a turbo than in this game.

eh, i still think there's something here, like here's sunfan's original post about it:

Originally Posted by the sun fan

I will say that if WV is a wolf this game he is playing consciously different than the previous wolf game he played (last turbo) and I think its entirely possible but it is rather different imo

if it was in a like, townie way, then obviously I'd be a lot more ok with him but I think the reach here is that I'm aite with him just because he's not wolfier?

its a silly read that I think I'll use for this day phase only

so it's not like he has a high confidence townread on wv, but may not want to lynch him then

pretty much i got where he was coming from i think and that's what i thought i was agreeing with, but i guess it's true that i disagreed with his overall read

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Huh, ok. Why do you think it looks bad for sun fan specifically, regarding that?

because he stayed on one of the main wagons seemingly to make wv not die more than because he believed wabby was a wolf, even though we were trying to work out compromises, so the lynch options weren't able to change much