Communism is bad? - Page 6

fido123 · 12-2-2011, 07:19 PM

If crocs were useless they wouldn't be sold in a capitalistic society. People generally don't buy things they don't want.

**RubiedCross** · 12-2-2011, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavernio

"if they truly needed psychology/physiological aid, they would receive it from psychologists and physiologist. They would then proceed to produce whatever services that they are capable of. However, if they are lazy for reasons that are unjustifiable, then it is as Devonin said."

Tell that to the millions of people who have mental illness for whom 'cures' don't exist. The whole lazy thing relies on the crux of what someone deems 'justifiable', to which I can only answer, the individual in question is the only person who knows their own limits, and I'm not arguing against devonin here, just voicing my views on what 'lazy' is.
Lazy people remove themselves from society all the time now as they would in communism; they commit suicide, they become homeless, they become addicts, etc.

If you read what I said, you would see that I actually posed a question as to exactly what would be done with people who have "mental illness for whom 'cures' don't exist". I don't know the answer to that and was looking for a knowledgeable response (i.e. a response from someone who has studied/has a good understanding of communism).

As for the line that would be drawn as to who is lazy or not, that would be defined by how they contribute to society. If they don't contribute, you'd then look at why they don't contribute. If they have a physical disability, I'm unsure what would be done. That's a question I'm looking for a response to. If they have a mental disability, the extent of that would have to be looked at and researched upon - something that we are still doing (I hope) today in America. Again, waiting for a response that would answer what we would do if they were mentally handicapped. If they had neither reason, they're lazy, and would be, therefore, "removing themselves" from the society, because they would receive nothing from society. They would be forced to contribute in order to survive. If they don't contribute, they'd have to find somewhere else to go where you can live off of doing absolutely nothing for shaky reasons (I wonder where they would go

).

**iCeCuBEz v2** · 12-11-2011, 12:30 AM

Communism.... from a global perspective... just doesn't work. The ideas of communism are in the right frame..... where everything is based on the individual's own method of reward systems..... but the world we live in today is WAY more complicated than that.... a unified world of communism is just NOT going to happen..... Utopian ideals "would" be perfect in a society where everyone has that same "view" but there's no way humans are eventually going to converge to that idea. Everyone's "views" about "certain things" are just completely convoluted and messed up a "global communism" would just be impossible to achieve.

I enjoy living in a "capitalist" society in America where I have the right to choose what I spend my money on. Capitalism really does make a lot of sense in my eyes.... but America is a pretty poverty ridden country where a lot of people don't have the ability to achieve what they personally want because it is just impossible/too difficult for most to achieve based on their "social setting."

It is also REALLY ****ing difficult to "live" comfortably in America today because it is so heavily taxed..... can't "avoid" taxes lol......

Also "mental illnesses" are a SERIOUS problem for A LOT of people dude.... it is also difficult for someone to assess what is "wrong" with them to a doctor who just prescribes alternative "medication" to "fix" their "mental problems"....... mental illnesses are REALLY complicated and it is difficult to truly evaluate someone's mental processes when most doctors are in it for the money..... they can "use EEG's" to evaluate the electrical stimulation that goes on in their brain when they react to "certain things" but even all of that it is difficult when individual mental illnesses are described in the "DSM IV" as "separate psychological disorders"

Also viewing a retard as "mentally handicapped" is a really horrible way of looking at "retarded" people. the current method of evaluating one's "intelligence" is the "intelligence quota," which is so ****ed up and loosely defined I don't even want to get into it. As long as that "retard" is comfortable in their setting, and can get a job if they have the ability of following their directions and completing their job, that's great for them.

**bmah** · 12-11-2011, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iCeCuBEz v2

It is also REALLY ****ing difficult to "live" comfortably in America today because it is so heavily taxed..... can't "avoid" taxes lol......

The US is one of the least-taxed countries in the world. It's no wonder they're in so much debt when taxes are quite the source of revenue for the economy to run on (or they're unwisely used). Just saying.

**iCeCuBEz v2** · 12-11-2011, 12:49 AM

dude in CT..... "taxes" are a ****load of the individual's own revenue... yeah spending "tax money wisely" is one thing.... but I'd complain in CT as well if I have to pay 30% of my earned income on "tax day." property tax in CT is also absurd.... especially when the housing market is so ****ed no matter what one "does to their" house, selling it is almost futile in this day and age because it won't match the "total money spent" on the "additions to that house"..... "houses" aren't even a smart investment in America today..... at least for now.... even with "refinancing stuff," people find better methods of paying their house with "better mortgage rates" but they still get ****ed on interest rates...... they end up paying wayyyyyy more in the long run for "that house" then just paying for it in cash themselves.

ya: taxes in CT blatantly suck; can't deny that one...... I care about the individual's revenue but no matter the individual they STILL pay a ****load in "tax money." The value of the typical American $1.00 IS important.... to every American that spends that "$1.00." How wisely they invest their money they STILL get butt****ed by tax.

**devonin** · 12-11-2011, 01:47 AM

Quote:

As of 2011, the income tax rates on Connecticut individuals are divided into six tax brackets of 3%, 5%, 5.5%, 6%, 6.5% and 6.7%

Yeah, those all look like 30%...also, what on earth does high income tax have to do with communism?

**bmah** · 12-11-2011, 01:53 AM

Nothing. But I presume it's implied in the sense of money/revenue taken by the government = more communist-oriented than capitalist-oriented where the government is more laissez-faire on people's lifestyles.
I.e. I guess Icecube is complaining about the distribution of capital in capitalistic "free" America and is implying his support that "communism is bad". Whatever. The post seems to be mostly catharsis and venting.

edit@below: eeh, yes it is venting, you can stop denying it now
...sure you have the right to be dissatisfied, but that's besides the point of this thread

**iCeCuBEz v2** · 12-11-2011, 02:03 AM

it's not catharsis and venting it is the America that I live in now. I have the right to be kind of "pissed off" about it.

fido123 · 12-11-2011, 10:33 AM

Still though, America has insanly low taxes. Taxes are NEEDED for a society to function. If you want less taxes move to Botswana.

EDIT: Even Botswana has taxs apperantly...

**~Zeta~** · 12-11-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iCeCuBEz v2

dude in CT..... "taxes" are a ****load of the individual's own revenue... yeah spending "tax money wisely" is one thing.... but I'd complain in CT as well if I have to pay 30% of my earned income on "tax day." property tax in CT is also absurd.... especially when the housing market is so ****ed no matter what one "does to their" house, selling it is almost futile in this day and age because it won't match the "total money spent" on the "additions to that house"..... "houses" aren't even a smart investment in America today..... at least for now.... even with "refinancing stuff," people find better methods of paying their house with "better mortgage rates" but they still get ****ed on interest rates...... they end up paying wayyyyyy more in the long run for "that house" then just paying for it in cash themselves.

ya: taxes in CT blatantly suck; can't deny that one...... I care about the individual's revenue but no matter the individual they STILL pay a ****load in "tax money." The value of the typical American $1.00 IS important.... to every American that spends that "$1.00." How wisely they invest their money they STILL get butt****ed by tax.

This. So. Much.

Earned 188 for a part time job, 30 bucks disappear to taxes. I know I can get that back, but it sucks I don't have it for the holidays.

CT is pretty absurd with costs. One thing I totally disagree with is pay a yearly 'car tax' as well. Like $75+ depending on car. $85 for like a SUV or something.

back on communism. Can't really tell if communism is bad or not. From what I think and discussed in history classes and teachers is that it failed tremendously from the leaders corrupting the nation/government. I think communism has a chance in smaller, controllable situations. Maybe on large scale, but we have the past to support that communist leaders have an effect in the manner of communism working and how 'bad' it is.

**HammyMcSquirrel** · 12-11-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iCeCuBEz v2

dude in CT..... "taxes" are a ****load of the individual's own revenue... yeah spending "tax money wisely" is one thing.... but I'd complain in CT as well if I have to pay 30% of my earned income on "tax day." property tax in CT is also absurd.... especially when the housing market is so ****ed no matter what one "does to their" house, selling it is almost futile in this day and age because it won't match the "total money spent" on the "additions to that house"..... "houses" aren't even a smart investment in America today..... at least for now.... even with "refinancing stuff," people find better methods of paying their house with "better mortgage rates" but they still get ****ed on interest rates...... they end up paying wayyyyyy more in the long run for "that house" then just paying for it in cash themselves.

ya: taxes in CT blatantly suck; can't deny that one...... I care about the individual's revenue but no matter the individual they STILL pay a ****load in "tax money." The value of the typical American $1.00 IS important.... to every American that spends that "$1.00." How wisely they invest their money they STILL get butt****ed by tax.

Please keep the main thread topic in mind 'cause this is driving things off topic. It'd be better to make a separate thread talking about this sort of thing than to do it here.

**iCeCuBEz v2** · 12-11-2011, 03:12 PM

ahh ok that makes sense.... I'll just talk about communism next time

communism is just wrong..... right guys?

**Cavernio** · 12-12-2011, 02:50 PM

Still not quite getting my point rubied. A large part of what defines having a mental illness, professionally, is the inability to live in society as a working, functional member. Anyone who does absolutely nothing is obviously a very ****ed up person who is mentally or physically ill. This is totally not on topic.
Communism probably doesn't have any more of an answer than capitalism does, but I have not studied it so I would not qualify to answer you even if I came up with a brilliant idea (which I haven't).
The term 'mentally handicapped' is the official word for 'retard' in circles that study retardedness and was supposed to be less mean than the word 'retard', and it is far from being solely measured by IQ tests. Any term for anyone who's not smart is going to automatically be derogatory because we think poorly of stupid people.

fido123 · 12-12-2011, 03:10 PM

Retard means slow. A mental handicap could be you think slowly or retarded, but the term could mean anything from bi-polarism to downs syndrome. Being bi-polar doesn't make you any slower.

**Cavernio** · 12-13-2011, 10:03 AM

My mistake. The official terms are Mental/Developmental Disability (not handicap) and Mental Illness. Bi-polar disorder is specifically a mental illness. Down syndrome is a mental disability. Someone with a mental disability could also have a mental illness, like someone with down syndrome who is also bi-polar.
But I still think handicap is synonym for disability and is not for illness.

**devonin** · 12-14-2011, 08:37 AM

Quote:

But I still think handicap is synonym for disability and is not for illness.

This is pretty much exactly how the term has come to be used. Someone who is 'handicapped' is, exactly like the term means, someone who has some kind of shortcoming or lack of ability that impacts their ability to act in a "normal" way. Physical handicaps are things like missing or atrophied limbs, a malfunctioning nervous system etc. Mental handicaps would be things like Downs Syndrome or you could argue, things like Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.

A handicap and an illness are not the same thing, though plenty of illnesses could be said to handicap you.

12-2-2011, 07:19 PM	#101
fido123 FFR Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Age: 32 Posts: 4,245	Re: Communism is bad? If crocs were useless they wouldn't be sold in a capitalistic society. People generally don't buy things they don't want.

12-11-2011, 12:30 AM	#103
iCeCuBEz v2 XFD Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Connecticut Age: 33 Posts: 4,924	Re: Communism is bad? Communism.... from a global perspective... just doesn't work. The ideas of communism are in the right frame..... where everything is based on the individual's own method of reward systems..... but the world we live in today is WAY more complicated than that.... a unified world of communism is just NOT going to happen..... Utopian ideals "would" be perfect in a society where everyone has that same "view" but there's no way humans are eventually going to converge to that idea. Everyone's "views" about "certain things" are just completely convoluted and messed up a "global communism" would just be impossible to achieve. I enjoy living in a "capitalist" society in America where I have the right to choose what I spend my money on. Capitalism really does make a lot of sense in my eyes.... but America is a pretty poverty ridden country where a lot of people don't have the ability to achieve what they personally want because it is just impossible/too difficult for most to achieve based on their "social setting." It is also REALLY **ing difficult to "live" comfortably in America today because it is so heavily taxed..... can't "avoid" taxes lol...... Also "mental illnesses" are a SERIOUS problem for A LOT of people dude.... it is also difficult for someone to assess what is "wrong" with them to a doctor who just prescribes alternative "medication" to "fix" their "mental problems"....... mental illnesses are REALLY complicated and it is difficult to truly evaluate someone's mental processes when most doctors are in it for the money..... they can "use EEG's" to evaluate the electrical stimulation that goes on in their brain when they react to "certain things" but even all of that it is difficult when individual mental illnesses are described in the "DSM IV" as "separate psychological disorders" Also viewing a retard as "mentally handicapped" is a really horrible way of looking at "retarded" people. the current method of evaluating one's "intelligence" is the "intelligence quota," which is so *ed up and loosely defined I don't even want to get into it. As long as that "retard" is comfortable in their setting, and can get a job if they have the ability of following their directions and completing their job, that's great for them. __________________ I bring my math homework to church. It helps me find a higher power. Dennis, Nell, Edna, Leon, Nedra, Anita, Rolf, Nora, Alice, Carol, Leo, Jane, Reed, Dena, Dale, Basil, Rae, Penny, Lana, Dave, Denny, Lena, Ida, Bernadette, Ben, Ray, Lila, Nina, Jo, Ira, Mara, Sara, Mario, Jan, Ina, Lily, Arne, Bette, Dan, Reba, Diane, Lynn, Ed, Eva, Dana, Lynne, Pearl, Isabel, Ada, Ned, Dee, Rena, Joel, Lora, Cecil, Aaron, Flora, Tina, Arden, Noel, and Ellen sinned. Last edited by iCeCuBEz v2; 12-11-2011 at 12:45 AM..*

12-11-2011, 12:49 AM	#105
iCeCuBEz v2 XFD Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Connecticut Age: 33 Posts: 4,924	Re: Communism is bad? dude in CT..... "taxes" are a **load of the individual's own revenue... yeah spending "tax money wisely" is one thing.... but I'd complain in CT as well if I have to pay 30% of my earned income on "tax day." property tax in CT is also absurd.... especially when the housing market is so ed no matter what one "does to their" house, selling it is almost futile in this day and age because it won't match the "total money spent" on the "additions to that house"..... "houses" aren't even a smart investment in America today..... at least for now.... even with "refinancing stuff," people find better methods of paying their house with "better mortgage rates" but they still get ed on interest rates...... they end up paying wayyyyyy more in the long run for "that house" then just paying for it in cash themselves. ya: taxes in CT blatantly suck; can't deny that one...... I care about the individual's revenue but no matter the individual they STILL pay a load in "tax money." The value of the typical American $1.00 IS important.... to every American that spends that "$1.00." How wisely they invest their money they STILL get butt*ed by tax. __________________ I bring my math homework to church. It helps me find a higher power. Dennis, Nell, Edna, Leon, Nedra, Anita, Rolf, Nora, Alice, Carol, Leo, Jane, Reed, Dena, Dale, Basil, Rae, Penny, Lana, Dave, Denny, Lena, Ida, Bernadette, Ben, Ray, Lila, Nina, Jo, Ira, Mara, Sara, Mario, Jan, Ina, Lily, Arne, Bette, Dan, Reba, Diane, Lynn, Ed, Eva, Dana, Lynne, Pearl, Isabel, Ada, Ned, Dee, Rena, Joel, Lora, Cecil, Aaron, Flora, Tina, Arden, Noel, and Ellen sinned. Last edited by iCeCuBEz v2; 12-11-2011 at 01:00 AM..*

12-11-2011, 01:53 AM	#107
bmah shots FIRED Global Moderator, User Support, Judge Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB Age: 36 Posts: 8,448	Re: Communism is bad? Nothing. But I presume it's implied in the sense of money/revenue taken by the government = more communist-oriented than capitalist-oriented where the government is more laissez-faire on people's lifestyles. I.e. I guess Icecube is complaining about the distribution of capital in capitalistic "free" America and is implying his support that "communism is bad". Whatever. The post seems to be mostly catharsis and venting. edit@below: eeh, yes it is venting, you can stop denying it now ...sure you have the right to be dissatisfied, but that's besides the point of this thread Last edited by bmah; 12-11-2011 at 03:14 AM..

12-11-2011, 02:03 AM	#108
iCeCuBEz v2 XFD Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Connecticut Age: 33 Posts: 4,924	Re: Communism is bad? it's not catharsis and venting it is the America that I live in now. I have the right to be kind of "pissed off" about it. __________________ I bring my math homework to church. It helps me find a higher power. Dennis, Nell, Edna, Leon, Nedra, Anita, Rolf, Nora, Alice, Carol, Leo, Jane, Reed, Dena, Dale, Basil, Rae, Penny, Lana, Dave, Denny, Lena, Ida, Bernadette, Ben, Ray, Lila, Nina, Jo, Ira, Mara, Sara, Mario, Jan, Ina, Lily, Arne, Bette, Dan, Reba, Diane, Lynn, Ed, Eva, Dana, Lynne, Pearl, Isabel, Ada, Ned, Dee, Rena, Joel, Lora, Cecil, Aaron, Flora, Tina, Arden, Noel, and Ellen sinned.

12-11-2011, 10:33 AM	#109
fido123 FFR Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Age: 32 Posts: 4,245	Re: Communism is bad? Still though, America has insanly low taxes. Taxes are NEEDED for a society to function. If you want less taxes move to Botswana. EDIT: Even Botswana has taxs apperantly...

12-11-2011, 03:12 PM	#112
iCeCuBEz v2 XFD Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Connecticut Age: 33 Posts: 4,924	Re: Communism is bad? ahh ok that makes sense.... I'll just talk about communism next time communism is just wrong..... right guys? __________________ I bring my math homework to church. It helps me find a higher power. Dennis, Nell, Edna, Leon, Nedra, Anita, Rolf, Nora, Alice, Carol, Leo, Jane, Reed, Dena, Dale, Basil, Rae, Penny, Lana, Dave, Denny, Lena, Ida, Bernadette, Ben, Ray, Lila, Nina, Jo, Ira, Mara, Sara, Mario, Jan, Ina, Lily, Arne, Bette, Dan, Reba, Diane, Lynn, Ed, Eva, Dana, Lynne, Pearl, Isabel, Ada, Ned, Dee, Rena, Joel, Lora, Cecil, Aaron, Flora, Tina, Arden, Noel, and Ellen sinned. Last edited by iCeCuBEz v2; 12-11-2011 at 10:17 PM..

12-12-2011, 02:50 PM	#113
Cavernio sunshine and rainbows Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 41 Posts: 1,987	Re: Communism is bad? Still not quite getting my point rubied. A large part of what defines having a mental illness, professionally, is the inability to live in society as a working, functional member. Anyone who does absolutely nothing is obviously a very ****ed up person who is mentally or physically ill. This is totally not on topic. Communism probably doesn't have any more of an answer than capitalism does, but I have not studied it so I would not qualify to answer you even if I came up with a brilliant idea (which I haven't). The term 'mentally handicapped' is the official word for 'retard' in circles that study retardedness and was supposed to be less mean than the word 'retard', and it is far from being solely measured by IQ tests. Any term for anyone who's not smart is going to automatically be derogatory because we think poorly of stupid people.

12-12-2011, 03:10 PM	#114
fido123 FFR Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Age: 32 Posts: 4,245	Re: Communism is bad? Retard means slow. A mental handicap could be you think slowly or retarded, but the term could mean anything from bi-polarism to downs syndrome. Being bi-polar doesn't make you any slower.

12-13-2011, 10:03 AM	#115
Cavernio sunshine and rainbows Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 41 Posts: 1,987	Re: Communism is bad? My mistake. The official terms are Mental/Developmental Disability (not handicap) and Mental Illness. Bi-polar disorder is specifically a mental illness. Down syndrome is a mental disability. Someone with a mental disability could also have a mental illness, like someone with down syndrome who is also bi-polar. But I still think handicap is synonym for disability and is not for illness.

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