The Wii is Here.

[suicidalmuskrat]

Originally Posted by Chromer

Moogy, as if anything you say will change my mind. can you honestly talk on this forum and say that the Revolution IS NOT a gimmick? No you can't because that is exactly what the rev is; a gimmick. If it works, the Revolution can usher in a new era of gameplay. If not, it will remembered with the craptacular showings of the Power Glove and Virtual Boy.

Umm...You've gotta be kidding, right? I'll only admit that the Revolution is a gimmick if you admit that every controller up until this point was a gimmick.

And if it doesn't usher in a new era of gameplay, it won't be the tech's fault. As it's been proven a lot of fun, and capable of changing everything...It'd be the people's faults for not realizing it.



EDIT: "Granted, that's not a new idea, but it's something that can't be done with a crappy (in terms of power) system. We're nearing the point of lifelike graphics in real time, and after that, consoles will still keep getting faster and boasting better tech specs than the previous generation could, but that extra power will be used for things other than graphics. Also, you must realize that not everybody who plays games is a "gamer." Microsoft and Sony are looking to please the greatest number of people by upping their graphics a ton. The "gamers" are the minority here."

How much better were the PS2 load times compared to the PS1 load times? If I remember correctly, not much. And the no load times? The GameCube was BY FAR the best in regards to this, and it had a much worse spec sheet than the XBox...and the XBox still had much worse load times. It's all about the developer, and the architecture of the system.

[Chromer]

Originally Posted by suicidalmuskrat

Umm...You've gotta be kidding, right? I'll only admit that the Revolution is a gimmick if you admit that every controller up until this point was a gimmick.

And if it doesn't usher in a new era of gameplay, it won't be the tech's fault. As it's been proven a lot of fun, and capable of changing everything...It'd be the people's faults for not realizing it.

No it won't be the people's faults because 1) It HASN'T been proven that the Revolution is everything it says to be, 2) A controller that mimics movement on a tv screen is not for everyone. You want to believe that the world wants this, but it's not the same everywhere, and 3) Every controller FROM Nintendo has been a gimmick. Can anyone say Gamecube?

Overall, I'm not trying to bash Nintendo because I'll probably get the Rev. Only thing I'm saying is that this console is going to make or break Nintendo. if they fail (which it is very possible), we could see the death of a gaming giant.

[Squeek]

Oh wow so a complete copy of the N64 controller with re-arranging and tweaking is a gimmick now?

Every controller up to this point has been the same crap. It just adds more and more buttons and tries to feel better in your hand. This is the first time a controller is unique.

If you're referring to the microphone on Odama, it was on Mario Party first and even earlier on Hey You Pikachu.

If you're referring to the bongos, then I really feel pity as there's no gimmick to that at all, especially not one that any other company has done before.

I don't understand this nonsense about a gimmick. It's a methodology. The means of which the game is played. What about it is a gimmick. All these "gimmick" people are going to start calling it an innovation and eventually, a FUN WAY TO PLAY FUN GAMES.

We'll see at E3.

~Squeek

[evilbutterfly]

How much better were the PS2 load times compared to the PS1 load times?

Uhhh, the section you quoted from me was talking about being able to walk in every building you see in a free-roaming game, not load times. I suppose you could make a game where you can walk in every building you see, but you'd have to sacrifice space and CPU useage in other places to such a degree that the game would look like Starfox on the SNES, and who cares if you can go in every building if your character looks and plays like a big box with box arms and a box gun? And yeah, load times can be helped a ton with good coding, but you can't say that more power doesn't decrease load times. Once we get to the point that graphics are as good as they'll get, we'll keep adding power to our systems, so load times will go back down (since they keep getting bigger as it is, seems like).

And Chromer, I wouldn't say it would kill Nintendo. The Rev is so cheap that lots of people (especially the consistent Nintendo fanboys) will buy it just because it's cheap and it's Nintendo. Also, the Rev appeals more to girls and non-gamers in that it's not so complicated and it's easy to use. Nintendo's past failures (Virtual Boy, Power Glove) were complicated and weird, whereas the Rev is very natural. Also, the Rev is getting a lot more publicity than those other things ever got, so it'll have sales because of that alone. Plus, Nintendo always has the Gameboy market to keep some life in them, and if the Rev fails horribly they can fall back on that to a degree.

EDIT after Squeek: Will they even show anything at E3? Silly Nintendo and their silly secrets. XD

[Moogy]

Originally Posted by evilbutterfly

EDIT after Moogy: rofl, I figured it was the anti-GTA thing. I always use it as an example and somebody always complains, but whether you like GTA or not, you have to admit that the free-roaming aspect is good and that's why other games copy it.

No, actually I hate the concept of free-roaming. I don't want to have to find out where my next objective is. I don't want to randomly wander around finding stuff. I want solid characters, a plotline that is followed, and I want to be taken to my next destination with a minimum of effort. I don't want to have to find out my next objective. I want to be told what it is, where to go, and how to do it.

This is why I rarely play anything except RPGs nowadays. All other genres have no plot or characters and a complete lack of objective in the game.

[suicidalmuskrat]

Originally Posted by Chromer

No it won't be the people's faults because 1) It HASN'T been proven that the Revolution is everything it says to be, 2) A controller that mimics movement on a tv screen is not for everyone. You want to believe that the world wants this, but it's not the same everywhere, and 3) Every controller FROM Nintendo has been a gimmick. Can anyone say Gamecube?

Overall, I'm not trying to bash Nintendo because I'll probably get the Rev. Only thing I'm saying is that this console is going to make or break Nintendo. if they fail (which it is very possible), we could see the death of a gaming giant.

1.) It HAS been proven that the Revolution is everything it says to be. Read any impression, either from the tech demos, or from the Red Steel preview in Game Informer.

2.) Yeah, but is that all it does? No. And a controller that has no interaction besides pushing a button isn't for everyone either.

3.) How was the GameCube controller a gimmick? What I was saying is that if you're calling the Rev controller a gimmick, then you have to call every other controller a gimmick as well. Not just single on the GC controller.

4.) Very possible? Look at ANY poll that has been made on a neutral website. There is absolutely NO indication that it's going to fail, let alone be "likely". On the EXTREMELY off chance that it does, it wouldn't be the end of Nintendo. They've got such a huge mass of money saved up. They aren't going anywhere for a very long time.

Maybe what you don't realize is that the draw of their 1st party franchises will always keep them a profitable company. They made money on the Cube.

PS--Quote from Game Informer: "The Revolution is real; we've played it. It will change everything."

Also read the demo impressions, and it praises the tech and the ease of use. Since they were just demos at that point there weren't real game impressions, but at this point we KNOW that the tech is great, and now it's just up to the games to take advantage, as we know Red Steel already is doing.

EDIT: And yes, EB, it'll be at E3, with tons of playable games and demos. Also, the final secret(s) will be revealed.

[Squeek]

If you really want some interesting numbers, check out this survey.

http://poll.pollhost.com/dmxhZGNvbGU...WFsCU9yYW5nZQ/

According to that poll, just about 3/4th of gamers who voted are highly-interested in this so-called "gimmick". It's almost 11,000 people out of almost 15,000 people.

I can't imagine why so many people are interested in Nintendo for this year's E3 gosh what could it be =/

~Squeek

[Chromer]

Of course, I can't hope to win a fight against Nintendo fanboys but you guys are so....there isn't even a word for how you guys are acting. Like I stated before, I'm not bashing Nintendo but you guys seem to take the littlest thing someone says and see it as an attack on Miyamoto's precious little machine. You're right. We will see at E3. I wouldn't bat an eye if Nintendo decides to withold important info until TGS 2006. XD

[evilbutterfly]

Originally Posted by Moogy

No, actually I hate the concept of free-roaming. I don't want to have to find out where my next objective is. I don't want to randomly wander around finding stuff. I want solid characters, a plotline that is followed, and I want to be taken to my next destination with a minimum of effort. I don't want to have to find out my next objective. I want to be told what it is, where to go, and how to do it.

This is why I rarely play anything except RPGs nowadays. All other genres have no plot or characters and a complete lack of objective in the game.

In both the games I mentioned (GTA:SA and Spiderman 2) the next mission available is shown up on the map and is always easy to get to, the only wandering and finding is optional. Both have solid characters (as solid as gangstas and superheros can be) and a plotline that is followed (less for Spiderman2 than GTA:SA), and there isn't much effort in going from place to place. Most of the missions in SA end you where the next mission is, and once you get the mission you're told exactly what you need to do, where you need to do it, and how.

Granted, it's not for you, but you don't seem to see what I'm saying about the difference between free-roaming and non-linear games. Basically, in free-roaming games, you're given set objectives and things to do, you just don't have to do them. You can wander around beating people up for no reason if you want, or you can go through and just do the missions if you want. It's cool.

PS: Chromer, there's no winning or fighting here, just some discussion. =P

[Squeek]

No, but Chromer, to call just the Gamecube controller a gimmick? Come on. All three controllers of the past 6 years have been the exact same with just tiny differences. Two analog sticks, buttons on the top for index fingers, 4 other buttons. Even before that, it's still all been the same. All the way back to Genesis and SNES. So why did you single out the Gamecube?

I've already proven to you that this new console is piquing the interest of a majority of gamers. It's fairly obvious why. Obviously, it's not for graphics or for how the console looks. I highly doubt this little "gimmick", as so many anti-Nintendo people are calling it, is going to fail.

And for the record, I am not a fanboy. I just don't support a company that makes shoddy products that break in a year, nor do I support the company that forces me to revalidate Windows after changing one tiny thing on my OS. Which almost always leads to a call to India at four in the morning and that's ALWAYS fun.

~Squeek

[suicidalmuskrat]

Originally Posted by Chromer

Of course, I can't hope to win a fight against Nintendo fanboys but you guys are so....there isn't even a word for how you guys are acting. Like I stated before, I'm not bashing Nintendo but you guys seem to take the littlest thing someone says and see it as an attack on Miyamoto's precious little machine. You're right. We will see at E3. I wouldn't bat an eye if Nintendo decides to withold important info until TGS 2006. XD

You call it a gimmick yet don't explain why, you single out the GC controller as squeek mentioned. You say it's very likely it will fail, despite ALL evidence to the contrary. Here's another quote for ya from people who have played with the machine:

http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=...UserId=5379799

"We just finished our June issue (which will start shipping right when E3 starts). Our cover story? The Nintendo Revolution. After working on this article, I must say, I've gone from "excited" to "OMG super-psyched" for this machine. I can't reveal anything right now, but I think the Revolution will put Nintendo back into the game for this next-gen console war. Forget GameCube and Nintendo 64. If Nintendo can get the right developers backing this system for a few years, it will be a winner. Stay tuned...."

You're making these comments with no basis, THAT'S what's pissing me off.

EDIT: And that's from Dan Hsu "EGMShoe", the Editor-in-chief of Electronic Gaming Monthly, who has always been pretty critical of Nintendo.

[nforcer06164]

The controller may be a "gimmick" as we see it now, but, if we look back at history, it WILL become standard with a new generation. Nintendo has always led the way with natural, comfortable controllers that are often copied in later generations. Though they may not be the first to try some things, they are the first to make it practical.

Practical handheld controller (NES)
Shoulder buttons, four face buttons (SNES)
Analog stick (N64)
Comfortable, natural design (GCN)

Sony and Microsoft cannot boast any of these distinctions, yet they've taken the liberty to copy the design that WORKED. The fact of the matter is, Nintendo knows what they're doing with controllers; they've been doing it right for 20 years. I highly doubt that they're going to make a mistake in one of the most crucial (and most consistent) components of their consoles.

[Squeek]

In happier, less console-warish news...

Sega has announced Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz for the Nintendo Revolution. The next installment looks to return the series to its roots with classic action/puzzle gameplay. As expected, the Revolution's unique functionality will add a new dimension to the playing field, allowing players to control their monkey balls by tilting the controllers. Also, for the first time, a jump-ability will be added to game, initiated by flicking the controller upward.

As with previous SMB titles, party games will be one of Banana Blitz's biggest draws, and Sega has promised a huge library of dynamic mini-games designed with the Revolution in mind, including Whack-a-Mole and ring toss.

Sauce: http://www.joystiq.com/2006/04/26/su...nto-revolution

<3

~Squeek

[suicidalmuskrat]

Yeah, just check this page of Sega's...They're releasing new game info up until E3, each night at 3:01 EST, 12:01 PST. The first night was Virtua Tennis (only for PS3 and 360), the second night was SMB:BB. I've been staying up til at least 3:10 to get the new game info, and make some comments on it...

Here's hoping for House of the Dead, Nights, and a kickass Rev exclusive Sonic all make an appearance in the 12 nights.

[evilbutterfly]

Something I just thought of that I haven't seen anybody mentioned: If you think about it, every console has its gimmick. X-Box has "ZOMG WE R TEH PWN AT ONLINE GAMING!", PS3 has "OMGWTFGFX", and Nintendo has "LOL IT'S A REMOTE NO WAIT IT'S A CONTROLLER ROFL!!" So really, nobody should be offended by the word "gimmick," since lots of things in the game industry are based around a gimmick that makes everything else work.

Also, every Nintendo controller since the SNES has been REALLY F*CKING WEIRD. I mean, the freaking N64 controller especially. What 3-handed alien designed that!? And the GCN controller isn't as bad, but it's still awkwardly asymetrical. Thus, nforcer, I'll have to disagree with that one point, cuz there's nothing natural or comfortable about that controller if you ask me. Also, you left out some things Nintendo did: VirtuaBoy's dual directional things are pretty much exactly where Dual Shock analog sticks are, and that's worked like a charm, N64 had rumble packs before anybody else, and the Wavebird or whatever was really good, too. You do kinda ignore what other people have done with controllers, though. Dual Shocks' sticks can be pushed in as buttons, which X-Box copied, and I think Dreamcast was the first console to have triggers instead of shoulder buttons, which Nintendo put into the GCN controllers.

And I wouldn't call Nintendo controllers consistent. They're the least consistent of all the companies when it comes to input devices for their systems. You're being a bit overzealous in trying to defend Nintendo. They aren't perfect, after all. =\

And Squeek, you can be a fanboy for a good company and still be just as unreasonable as fanboys for bad companies. It doesn't make you any better or worse than the others, really. Not that you seem fanboyish, though. I really wish people would quit just bashing or just praising Nintendo and look at both sides. Yeah it'll be cool if it succeeds, but they are taking a risk with this. Most people see the controller and freak out. I think when I will really know whether the risk was worth it for them is once Revs go on display at Best Buys and Wal-Marts. If people are too scared to try it then it won't succeed, no matter how good it is. Only time will tell.

[emccky]

i hope the controller responds very well, as in if you flick it up to jump in that game it ALWAYS does, you don't have to a couple times to get it to work. I'm hoping its a flawless controller in terms of ability to do things precisely.

[Grandiagod]

Originally Posted by evilbutterfly

Something I just thought of that I haven't seen anybody mentioned: If you think about it, every console has its gimmick. X-Box has "ZOMG WE R TEH PWN AT ONLINE GAMING!", PS3 has "OMGWTFGFX", and Nintendo has "LOL IT'S A REMOTE NO WAIT IT'S A CONTROLLER ROFL!!" So really, nobody should be offended by the word "gimmick," since lots of things in the game industry are based around a gimmick that makes everything else work.

Now don't get me wrong. I love the Revolution and am planning on buying it, but the remote is a gimmick. Wheras online gaming and good graphics are pretty standard in todays gaming culture.

[Squeek]

ps buttons are gimicks

duh

a true gamer plays with his face

[suicidalmuskrat]

Originally Posted by Grandiagod

Now don't get me wrong. I love the Revolution and am planning on buying it, but the remote is a gimmick. Wheras online gaming and good graphics are pretty standard in todays gaming culture.

Ahhhh, I get it...Anything new is a gimmick! IT'S A F*****G INPUT DEVICE JUST LIKE BUTTONS, ONLY MORE NATURAL!

How is that a gimmick? I guess if your definition of 'gimmick' is actually 'new', then you don't need to respond.

[lord_carbo]

Originally Posted by evilbutterfly

Also, every Nintendo controller since the SNES has been REALLY F*CKING WEIRD. I mean, the freaking N64 controller especially. What 3-handed alien designed that!? And the GCN controller isn't as bad, but it's still awkwardly asymetrical. Thus, nforcer, I'll have to disagree with that one point, cuz there's nothing natural or comfortable about that controller if you ask me. Also, you left out some things Nintendo did: VirtuaBoy's dual directional things are pretty much exactly where Dual Shock analog sticks are, and that's worked like a charm, N64 had rumble packs before anybody else, and the Wavebird or whatever was really good, too. You do kinda ignore what other people have done with controllers, though. Dual Shocks' sticks can be pushed in as buttons, which X-Box copied, and I think Dreamcast was the first console to have triggers instead of shoulder buttons, which Nintendo put into the GCN controllers.

Yes, the N64 controller was probably one of the wierdest things to ever freaking exist, where only like three games actually used the left side. But the GCN controller wasn't all that bad, seriously.

XBOX CONTROLLER IS HUEG and the PS2 controller feels wierd on the part where my right and left index fingers fall into place (it feels like there is .0001 cm inbetween my thumb and my index finger, which is odd at first) (the N64 also had this problem, or for some of you, "problem").

But I won't start praising the GCN controller, which has annoyances. The button layout is kind of odd. But that's one of those things that you get used to over time and eventually like because of the nice flow between the buttons. What really ticks me off: those GODDAMN ANNOYING OCTAGONS for the joysticks. Seriously annoying. I don't like the feeling of my joystick being guided into place. It's still my favorite controller because of how nicely it fits into my hand. PS and trigger buttons. I love trigger buttons.