TWG 150: Undertale

[TWG Mad Dummy]

Originally Posted by TWG Temmie

what is the possibility of Charu bussing his entire team?
what is the possibility of Sans being Charu?

The past few pages have been both sides of the argument regarding charu bussing his entire team or not. Its up to you to form your own opinion.

------------------------------------------

This is a post I made about Sans likely being Charu

Originally Posted by TWG Mad Dummy

Ok. The way that we began interacting, the way he made fun of me for being "paranoid" of him when I posted the thing you and Alphys yelled at me for, I felt like I knew Sans was Charu right away. He always mocks (playfully, of course) me regardless of his alignment, he finds it fun. The post he made about Alphys being Gradiant is something I believe only Charu and myself would make, Gradiant doesn't play all that often and when he does, it is in anonymous games, and I feel like very few people would be able to pick him out of an anon game. The way he appealed to me, like bringing my reputation or whatever Undyne talked about when he was checked, was very distinctly in his language.

I will say, as I've said before, that Sans not being Charu would be legitimately mindblowing to me.

I cannot explain why Toriel ever dies the first night without Charu being on a scumteam.

[TWG Temmie]

Originally Posted by TWG Papyrus

i was just continuing a joke:

anyway i guess i have to look at greg's jrodd impression in the villains game now if i want any hope of knowing how he treats scum partners

okay, so you don't think Tsunderplane is in the team then?
if you think Mad Dummy is a monster after looking at that impression, wouldn't that make Tsunderplane as human then from your logic?

Originally Posted by TWG Temmie

(4) TWG Muffet - TWG Alphys (1372), TWG Papyrus (1486), TWG Undyne (1785) TWG Napstablook (1786),
(4) TWG Temmie - TWG Tsunderplane (1459), TWG Mad Dummy(1552), TWG Flowey (1729), TWG Muffet ()
(1) TWG Alphys - TWG Temmie (1457)

Originally Posted by TWG Papyrus

i think this makes undyne/napsta and plane/dummy unlikely but other than that idk

[TWG Papyrus]

oh my fucking god it was a joke i think undyne/plane is still very possible it's just you're so dumb uuuuuuurrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhh

[TWG Mad Dummy]

I think that, similar to last phase, it is best if we vote for people sooner rather than later. NOT INSTA ANYONE RIGHT NOW, but I would rather votes be cast before EOD so that clear lines may be drawn, rather than the lines be drawn too quickly for anyone to follow.

For now, I am content lynching between Undyne and Napsta

[TWG Mad Dummy]

The reason for my switch is just that Napsta fits into my theory better than Undyne does.

[TWG Mad Dummy]

I can't fucking sleep because of this game

I know its not a world of 3 scum alive (at least not a world of 3 without Alphys) because they would've voted for me as soon as Alphys voted for me. If there's a godfather and not a seer, then lolXiz.

I just cannot understand this line of thinking at all, Tsunderplane

Originally Posted by TWG Tsunderplane

with the way we're getting down to the wire the next couple flips could certainly change my mind but as of right now i'm not convinced that napsta is scum

Yes, its coming down to the wire. So why clear Napsta this phase? Why are you refusing to reevaluate on them specifically for the length of this phase? For what reason would the flip change your opinion on them? I really don't understand, I really, really don't. I really want to think you're not a human because of how you've been responding to me, but I really think I see a strong connection with you two based on you clearing them for this phase without reevaluating.

From where I'm standing, I've done a hard reset on all of my reads. I don't get why you haven't. I think all town should be doing so in this position.

For the people that thing I'm a wolf, literally none of the people that have died have thought I was a wolf. I don't roll like that, at the most you can think I roleread Flowey, but I don't kill people that think I'm town. I know its WIFOM, but I think its pretty terrible play. If I am a wolf, I probably never call out Charu for the nightkill being random, especially since I'm the only person that ever reads Charu based on nightkills being random. It also doesn't make much sense for me to argue for Flowey being Charu when I probably know Charu is Sans based on nightchat (wolves generally tell each other their identities).

I understand that it is late in the game, and that at this point people start to get paranoid. The question has arisen "Why is Dummy still alive," which I feel like I've addressed already but I'll do so again. The reason being is what you see before you. The cop is paranoid as fuck, and people are harping on my defense of Sans before the check, which is understandable. You have to also think that I call him out based on the nightkill in the first place. Literally the last game I played, I was left alive until f3. The town have listened to me none of the phases, especially DBP of all people. I did not support the Asgore lynch, I wanted to kill Doggo. The So Sorry lynch felt pretty meh to me, but I really wanted to kill Papyrus. Sans was mechanical, so I'm disregarding that, but I also wanted to kill Temmie over Muffet.

Yes, Doggo was town, but town's win % goes up so much if you kill the people that aren't talking. If they're roles, and they're not talking during the day, guess what? they're not using their night actions either. Doggo and Papyrus were not doing anything at the time when I wanted to kill them.

I talked about how likely it was that Muffet was town over Temmie (yes I know they're both town I'm talking about how I've not been listened to) last phase, and at the very least it was a KitB, but it still stands that Muffet died over Temmie, who was not playing the game.

You cannot argue for me being alive being weird because of who I am and wolves potentially fearing me based on the fact that town literally isn't listening to me. Every time I feel like I make a case on someone being scummy, I get shit from Jake or DBP (I swear if he talked about being against one of my reads again because he was following another one of his "principles," I was certainly going to live up to the "Mad" part of my name) and its very, very frustrating.

I have spent hours ever since d1 (not d0 I admit I phoned it in on d0) when I made the post about Charu (albeit I thought that they were Flowey at the time), reading the thread trying to solve this game, so posts like the ones Jake made about me not doing work or ones DBP made about not liking one of my lynches because of a preconceived notion they had before they read any of the words I was saying, its pretty soul-crushing.

I should say that its not just this game. In the Ace Attorney game, everyone wanted to kill V, while I wanted to kill DBP. They were both wolves, but it really felt like no one was listening to the words I was saying.

I get that you folks are paranoid, I really do, but I can't understand your reasoning behind it since you haven't been listening to me.

@Tsunder, yes, when I post a case, I do feel like I have provided a reason why the case is plausible. I do feel like if I do so, the onus is, in fact, on the person(s) I address to discuss why it would not be the case. I think its a pretty important part of the game, and to see you suggest otherwise doesn't make any sense at all to me.

I still feel like I'm going to be lynched, so at the very least, can at least one of you towns actually listen to what I've been saying this game about Sans? It would probably actually break my heart if those words fell on deaf ears. This is how he has been playing for years, and I know that not all of you know this firsthand, but he is not going to change how he plays in the near future. I strongly, strongly, believe this. More than one of you have commented on how while its possible his townreads were perfect, this doesn't mean that he was busing all of his partners. I will try to shoot this down.

Now, try to get in the mindset of Charu here. You've been making a reads list since you've been pressured to do so. The votes on you are Alphys, Temmie, Napsta and Mad Dummy, (at least three of which) are town. You love posting naturally as scum, in fact, you've perfected the art of it. Doing so has come with a cost; you feel as though reads as scum, in order to sound authentic, need to actually be true. This is difficult because of the fact that you know the alignment of all players in the game. So, you do what you've always done, which has worked pretty well for you, and that is give accurate townreads. The only time you ever townread one of your partners was when you felt like they were posting perfectly. So, you've just finished giving all of the townreads, and one of them was on Flowey. Now, Flowey is onto one of your partners; the (a?) Godfather no less. In accordance with your personal philosophy, you scumread your partner So Sorry. Now, since being correct is so important to how you play the game, and you're giving a read on every player in the game, you finish the list.

Now, the reason why you townreads are perfect is, as said before, because you care so damn much about being correct. So it should logically follow that your scumreads are mostly correct as well.

People who are shooting down my case on there being at least one between Tsunder and Napsta are the people I don't understand one bit this game. I feel like I do this dance every anon game, and I've literally never been wrong on Charu busing his team. I really, really, really feel like because being correct is so important to him combined with the fact that his townreads are 100% accurate, that he was busing at least one teammate in addition to So Sorry. The fact that Tsunder just doesn't care to reevaluate on Napsta until the next two flips have happened boggles my mind.

So, another point that has been brought up is that Sans might've been compelled to townread me out of everyone in the list. I have to admit that I've never rolled wolf with Charu, but I would probably enjoy it. However, he would bus the shit out of me just like everyone else. He finds my style of play to be exceptionally scummy, so much so that in some games he will even push on me when he knows I am town (The game where storn and Charu both stacked on me is the most recent one that comes to mind). Honestly, I am surprised that he townread me this game, based on this, but I really feel like I know that if he rolled wolf with me, that he would never stop riding my case.

Last thing that I can think of is that some people are wondering if Charu can actually verifiably be called Sans beyond a reasonable doubt. I feel like I have previously posted sufficient evidence that this is beyond a reasonable doubt. If you feel like I am doing this as scum, then look at our cop, who is perfectly with me on Charu being Sans. Alphys is so sure that this is the case that they've even said Charu is Sans.

So please, take what I have to say as important and credible. It may boggle your mind that a Vanilla Wolf would bus his entire team in a setup like this, but it has happened before, as I have demonstrated from quoting from the Supermarket game. He scumread 4 of his 5 partners in the Smash game. He bussed both of his partners in rzr and 27ninjabunnies in the most recent game where he was scum. He does this shit all the time so I think its beyond reasonable to assume that there is
ALWAYS
ALWAYS
ALWAYS
at least one between Napsta and Tsunderplane.

Please don't let my words and my work be for nothing.

I would find it to be one of the greatest mindblows I have ever seen if this is not the case. I would literally be baffled if Napsta and Tsunder are both town this game.

I'll probably regret this post in the morning but whatever, it feels good to have typed it out.

[TWG Mad Dummy]

you fucks don't get a tl;dr I spent an hour making that post skipping it isn't allowed

[TWG Tsunderplane]

i don't have time to give that wall o' text the response it deserves but i want to get something out there while it's fresh

i'm not refusing to reevaluate Napsta and i think you're misinterpreting me. i've looked through their posts, i've looked at how they've reacted to pressure, etc. i'm convinced that they are town. i'm entertaining the charu bussing scenario that you keep bringing up, but since i haven't played with charu it doesn't hold much weight to me.

i'm looking at this in an objective manner and my gut feeling is that napsta is town. if information comes to light that isn't just "but this is how so-and-so played their games therefore" then i might be convinced to change my mind. but so far the evidence you've presented, which is based entirely on past games, doesn't do it for me

[TWG Tsunderplane]

IF we kill undyne today AND they flip green, my views on napsta could change depending on who dies in the night, since i think that will be extremely valuable information. as of right now though, they're getting a town read from me

[TWG Napstablook]

Originally Posted by TWG Mad Dummy

you fucks don't get a tl;dr I spent an hour making that post skipping it isn't allowed

Tldr but I'm assuming it's a bunch of baseless bullshit about how I have to be a human when that's not the case and you have nothing to support it otherwise. You're really desperate to push this whole Charu bussing thing and it just makes you look like shit in my book.

[TWG Alphys]

I like that post minus a couple things:

-Don't recall you being on Doggo, you were saying everybody should be ignoring Doggo and latched onto Papyrus. I argued with you for a while when that happened.

-The 'I know this argument is a bad thing to use, but let's continue to use it' part in the beginning

-Undyne not being included in the bussing, Undyne is in the same situation as plane: not directly called a human but just a '50/50, ill keep an eye on you'

-The fact that you want 'at least one town' to see that there is a human in napsta/plane, since it means you haven't been reading my posts

[TWG Mad Dummy]

Originally Posted by TWG Napstablook

Tldr but I'm assuming it's a bunch of baseless bullshit about how I have to be a human when that's not the case and you have nothing to support it otherwise. You're really desperate to push this whole Charu bussing thing and it just makes you look like shit in my book.

find me a game where Charu doesn't bus over half his team or provide sufficient reasoning as to why he would not be busing half his team rather than go down the line of "Rather than respond to that post I'll just attack my attacker for making a big post; it seems desperate"

[TWG Alphys]

As a whole though... unvote
i have go to work, ill be back like 7pm server maybe?

[TWG Mad Dummy]

Originally Posted by TWG Alphys

I like that post minus a couple things:

-Don't recall you being on Doggo, you were saying everybody should be ignoring Doggo and latched onto Papyrus. I argued with you for a while when that happened.

-The 'I know this argument is a bad thing to use, but let's continue to use it' part in the beginning

-Undyne not being included in the bussing, Undyne is in the same situation as plane: not directly called a human but just a '50/50, ill keep an eye on you'

-The fact that you want 'at least one town' to see that there is a human in napsta/plane, since it means you haven't been reading my posts

I voted for Doggo the first phase (along with Asgore) and was trying to get them killed. The quote you remember is from the next day, and my stance had changed by that point because I believed (I think it was Undyne that posted it first) that Doggo would either be replaced/modkilled by the end of the day.

I have no response to the second point other than a bad argument can lead to a correct conclusion, and I feel like its a very minor detail in the scale of the whole post itself.

I disagree about Undyne. I feel like he pretty much strictly calls her null (haven't been paying attention to her for whatever reason, feels pretty monstery, could be human), while he distinctly makes the point that he isn't reading Tsunder town anymore (falling off my monster pole, seems to just be following what's on the plate... didn't like how they'd flipped their read on Sans so quickly). If there's something else in some of his other posts I'd gladly make a change but I don't see it in that one.

All I remember you saying is that its possible that there's at least one between them, but not that there's two. You've done this while voting me. Forgive me for assuming you're on my side given the circumstances.

[TWG Napstablook]

Originally Posted by TWG Mad Dummy

find me a game where Charu doesn't bus over half his team or provide sufficient reasoning as to why he would not be busing half his team rather than go down the line of "Rather than respond to that post I'll just attack my attacker for making a big post; it seems desperate"

This totally goes against the spirit of this being an anon game and is a totally unfair and undebatable case against me if I'm honest. You're using ogi based off of an assumption to substantiate a point so you can drive a lynch against me because you have nothing else to go off of.

You're pushing the wrong person and allowing the actual humans to slide by essentially unnoticed because all of you're attention is on me.

If this keeps going on I'm going to make a post that I've been trying to avoid making.

[TWG Papyrus]

Originally Posted by TWG Napstablook

Tldr but I'm assuming it's a bunch of baseless bullshit about how I have to be a human when that's not the case and you have nothing to support it otherwise. You're really desperate to push this whole Charu bussing thing and it just makes you look like shit in my book.

what the fuck

[TWG Napstablook]

Originally Posted by TWG Mad Dummy

was trying to get them killed.

Lmao this wording reeks of a slip

[TWG Papyrus]

Originally Posted by TWG Mad Dummy

I have no response to the second point other than a bad argument can lead to a correct conclusion, and I feel like its a very minor detail in the scale of the whole post itself.

Originally Posted by TWG Mad Dummy

"I don't think something works, excepting cases where it works"

WHAT THE FUCK

these seem related
that's about all i can say on that post

[TWG Napstablook]

Originally Posted by TWG Papyrus

what the fuck

Have you actually done anything this game?
You just make shitposts and what the fuck posts that add no actual value to the game lmao

[TWG Papyrus]

i will actually fucking murder you