"Are my Jacks Okay?!?!?!"

[dore]

So yeah, lots of people are always asking "are [insert #] bpm [insert note type] alright?" Here's some cutoff points for you. Note that any bpm in between these cutoff values will have a percentage of jacks of the two values the bpm is bounded by (e.g. 175 bpm 16th jacks will have some 3 framers and some 2 framers since 175 is between 150 and 225, the two cutoff points on either side).

PUT SIMPLY
The max speed you should have of 4th jacks is 450bpm
The max speed you should have of 8th jacks is 225bpm
The max speed you should have of 12th jacks is 150bpm
The max speed you should have of 16th jacks is 112.5bpm
The max speed you should have of 24th jacks is 75bpm
etc.

Any jacks faster than that listed above risks auto-rejection for potential 3-framers. While not all files will be rejected for potential 3-framers, most will be, so unless there is an extremely musically-relevant reason to put in a jack faster than this you will most likely have your file rejected.

============================
Cutoff Values

For 16th notes:
90bpm = 5 framers
112.5bpm = 4 framers
150bpm = 3 framers
225bpm = 2 framers
450bpm = 1 framers
900bpm = 0 framers

From these values, a little simple math can help us determine everything else.

For 4th notes:
360bpm = 5 framers
450bpm = 4 framers
600bpm = 3 framers
900bpm = 2 framers
1800bpm = 1 framers
3600bpm (lol) = 0 framers

For 8th notes:
180bpm = 5 framers
225bpm = 4 framers
300bpm = 3 framers
450bpm = 2 framers
900bpm = 1 framers
1800bpm = 0 framers

For 12th notes:
120bpm = 5 framers
150bpm = 4 framers
200bpm = 3 framers
300bpm = 2 framers
600bpm = 1 framers
1200bpm = 0 framers

For 24th notes:
60bpm = 5 framers
75bpm = 4 framers
100bpm = 3 framers
150bpm = 2 framers
300bpm = 1 framers
600bpm = 0 framers

For 32nd notes:
45bpm = 5 framers
56.25bpm = 4 framers
75bpm = 3 framers
112.5 bpm = 2 framers
225bpm = 1 framers
450bpm = 0 framers

For 48th notes:
30bpm = 5 framers
37.5bpm = 4 framers
50bpm = 3 framers
75bpm = 2 framers
150bpm = 1 framers
300bpm = 0 framers

For 3/32nd notes:
135bpm = 5 framers
168.75bpm = 4 framers
225bpm = 3 framers
337.5bpm = 2 framers
675bpm = 1 framers
1350bpm = 0 framers

And finally, for 64ths:
22.5bpm = 5 framers
28.125bpm = 4 framers
37.5bpm = 3 framers
56.25bpm = 2 framers
112.5bpm = 1 framers
225bpm = 0 framers

5-framers: No overlap at all, you will only avmiss if you hit the first arrow late. Always okay in any file.
4-framers: The last perfect frame will be covered up. You have to hit one of the early frames to get perfects on both arrows. The only way your file will get rejected for 4-framers is if you have 8435843 in a row (like AIM Anthem).
3-framers: 2/3 of the perfect window is covered up. You have to hit extremely early to avoid avmissing while still getting a perfect. Your file will most likely get rejected for 3-framers unless you are stepping an extremely technical classical piece of music.
2-framers: Impossible to AAA, you must hit before the perfect window to avoid an avmiss. Your file will be rejected for 2-framers unless it is a FGO (difficulty 12/12) classical piece, and even then it might not go through. It's best to avoid them altogether.
0/1-framers: Don't waste the judges' time.

I hope this helps everyone.

[brothaice]

Stick it.

[customstuff]

Sticky!

[DDRFREAK500]

Sticky

[bluguerrilla]

Maybe you should add a math section so people can understand exactly why this is?

[g4z33b0]

Great thread, dore

[dore]

Originally Posted by bluguerrilla

Maybe you should add a math section so people can understand exactly why this is?

Just divide whatever value you want by its corresponding 16th note value to find the multiplier (e.g. (12th note 5 framers)/(16th note 5 framers) = 120/90 = 4/3)). I'd edit this in but my edit button doesn't work on this proxy I'm currently using.

[Rebirth0]

One problem.

I've never heard of anyone talking about 5-framers. Tass always talks about 4-framers being in songs at around 180 bpm. (Like in K8107, he says there are some 4-framers because of 8th note jacks and that's 180 bpm 8ths)

[Tasselfoot]

yes. 5 framers are safe. 180bpm chains are all 5 framers. the thing with k8107 (and any exactly 180 bpm songs) is that the gap will shift that slightly.

only if it is 180bpm AND 0 gap will it be all EXACTLY 5 framers. otherwise, 1 out of every 200 or so (no idea on actual, just making up numbers) will be a 4 framer. very very small percentage.

for the most part, 180bpm = 0 4 framers.

[samuri#1]

i play on C799

[jugglinguy]

Great thread dore.

[dore]

Thanks for the sticky

[Silver_Brian]

Great thread, I'll probably reference this for future files.

[Tayfun]

nice dore.

[Neonatrias]

Very helpful. 11/10, would use as reference again.

=)

[rshadow8888]

Nice. This answers a few questions I had.

[hi19hi19]

All this does is make it harder for the testers, lol


****ty file makers will still get their files rejected, just now the testers have to play throught them haha


EDIT- You might want to add that:

5 framers are always okay and are in basically every single file Challenging or harder.
4 framers are always okay unless you manage to do something really retarded with them like a jack made of 10000 4 framers in a row.
3 framers are where the "incredibly annoying and you dont want them in your file" starts to happen. Try to avoid them, and they might be grounds for rejection. For examples of 3 framers that actually fit the song, try Anubis.
2 framers are really bad, don't use them. Molto Vivace, Piano Etude, Nova Pulser, and Gradeus are good examples of 2 framers and how bad they are to have in your file.
If you use 1 framers your file will be rejected.
If you use 0 framers you will be ejected.

[Tasselfoot]

4 framers are always okay unless you manage to do something really retarded with them like a jack made of 10000 4 framers in a row.

sup AIM Anthem.

[smartdude1212]

and Turbulence are good examples of 2 framers

Turbulence has 3-framers, not 2-framers.
Change that to Gradeus or something.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by smartdude1212

Turbulence has 3-framers, not 2-framers.
Change that to Gradeus or something.

GRADEUS thats the one I was thinking of lol

Thanks for reminding me!