World of Warcraft

[devonin]

1) Fair enough
2) You need to have some pretty good healers to have 80,000 damage premitigation every second bouncing between only two people, one of whom is also getting meleed.
3) I've had Naxx runs with 3 or 4 melee plus the tank and gotten no extra slimes
4) We run with so many paladins, that we just self-cleanse so it's irellevant
5) If you seriously get cleaved by Sapphiron you're just dumb. The forward arc is huge, but Sapph's hitbox is ENORMOUS
6) Past 3 meleers, and we have suggested the DPS warrior just stand back and shoot gun until another DPS drops.

[Squeek]

The group I typically run with has ~10 melee, not including tanks. So, yes, you learn to start hating melee when you run with a group like them.

Speaking of this group, I'm bailing on them from now on because they're suck ****ing failures. We spent 4 hours in naxx tonight and only did one quarter. Half of the time it was wipe recovery, half of the time it was just sitting there. I don't even know why, but they paused after every trash pull was over. I wasn't in vent because it was full, so I have no idea what was going on. Spent about 25 minutes just looking at the horsemen.

Understandably, I and my guildies who ran with us were just a little put off. We're going to ask around other guilds who don't quite have 25 people, but are geared through naxx-10 and the likes and could easily run a 25-man.

Edit: After the run I stood at the last book spawn in Dalaran that I needed for Higher Learning and I was fortunate enough to not have to wait too long and get the real book as opposed to the joke book. So now I have the KT Familiar pet =D

[tsugomaru]

If you have 4 dps standing back in the KT fight, that's a potential 8k-12k dps you're missing. The fight is still a little bit harder.

~Tsugomaru

[Relambrien]

So I just did the Heigan dance for the first time last night. It was surprisingly easy--across the five wipes we ended up with, I never once died to the dance. The only time I died while the fight could still be won (healer and tank up) was due to the disease he puts on. I should've used Ice Block but it never occurred to me to do so.

I was actually surprised at how much trouble the rest of our ranged dps was having with the dance. It really wasn't hard at all. Though I don't envy the tanks and healers, especially the main tank. Having to keep up threat while ensuring you're positioned properly certainly looked difficult.

[bender5]

A bunch of people from my guild and a few pugs tried a bunch of times last night and the night before to do a 10 man OS 3 drake zerg kill.

We got him down to 2%, 3% and 4% which means he was under 200k hp each time, but never got him dead. It really sucked, but at the same time it was really awesome.

2% wipe was due to the DK not getting far enough away with the enraged tenbron so he 1 shotted the tank and we just couldn't put out the last 75k damage

3% and wipe shadron came down and made sarth immune due to unlucky firewalls causing pauses in our dps

4% wipe was due to the healer dying at like 12%, a shadow priest took over healing and losing the dk's dps to kite tenebron away and losing an epic dps to have him heal made us slow down enough to hit shadron again =/

Our dps is definitely strong enough because we got him down to 15% without heroism or everyone popping potions of speed.

We're continuing again tonight hopefully by this time tomorrow I'll have my of the Nightfall title.

Group setup in our closest attempt:

Paladin Tank
Paladin Healer
2 FFB spec mages
Arcane Mage
2 Shadow Priests
Boomkin
Elemental Shaman
Unholy/Frost DK putting up as much dps even without support classes to use swiftness potion and run away with tenebron when Sarth hits 25% and him along with the drakes enrage.

although tonight we're probably subbing out one of the Shadow Priests for another Boomkin that puts out like 5k dps

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by tsugomaru

If you have 4 dps standing back in the KT fight, that's a potential 8k-12k dps you're missing. The fight is still a little bit harder.

~Tsugomaru

Which is why I said the fights are all easier if you have no melee DPS.

Originally Posted by Relambrien

So I just did the Heigan dance for the first time last night. It was surprisingly easy--across the five wipes we ended up with, I never once died to the dance. The only time I died while the fight could still be won (healer and tank up) was due to the disease he puts on. I should've used Ice Block but it never occurred to me to do so.

I was actually surprised at how much trouble the rest of our ranged dps was having with the dance. It really wasn't hard at all. Though I don't envy the tanks and healers, especially the main tank. Having to keep up threat while ensuring you're positioned properly certainly looked difficult.

It's not hard at all. People make it seem so much harder because stupid people can't do much more than spam buttons and hope things die. Fights where the DPS has to do any more than that are considered 'hard', because the loss of these stupid DPS is enough to make the fight much harder or impossible.

If you lose DPS on Heigan, it's not too big of a deal. It just takes longer and longer to win, but at long as you have one healer and one tank, you can still do it. Other fights are not so gracious to losses.

[Sullyman2007]

I have seen a single pally healer keep a tank alive for about 15 minutes during Heigan while everyone else was dead. Pretty awesome.

I just got my second T7 piece. Got my first piece last night along with a few other purples; a really nice head piece (not T7), a necklace, and robes (not T7) but almost just as good. I got the T7 legging token from a boss drop, then I exchanged 60 emblems for the hand piece.

Needless to say it was a great night

Tonight we are going to take care of the last two bosses, Kel'Thuzad and Sapphiron.

[bender5]

Squeek in your whole melee is useless argument I do agree to a certain extent, but all raids have to be balanced. It might not be necessary in 10 mans, but in 25s you need melee.

On 25 man KT you have to have at least 1 rogue to help kick the frostbolts or else it will do far too much damage to the raid.

Besides fury warriors that are geared to the teeth do the highest dps of anybody in the raid I have a very hard time keeping up with the two fury warriors in my guild. Sure I'm not the most geared mage, but I do the most dps out of all the casters pretty much.

[Squeek]

Because range / casters can't interrupt the frostbolts right?

Another benefit is that with a ton of mana users in the fight, the mana detonation is spread out more, so the odds of it hitting a healer are statistically less.

I was trying to find a list of the interrupts every class has but I can't find one easily. I know Shaman have two, though I only use them every 12 seconds at best due to shared cooldowns with rotation skills.

[MrZombie]

Hmm.

I think this may be my first time posting in this forum.

Mainly due to the fact that I've been playing world of warcraft my entirety of college, and stopped coming onto FFR. XD.

Wait until you hear my uber-nerdness...

My guild's 2nd best on alliance side.

I've got my Immortal Title, Black Proto-Drake, 4/5 Val, everything else is Best in slot (except for Turning Tide), and i'm JC/Alc.

Anyway. I've been thinking of selling my Paladin and coming back to FFR.

Ugh.

[bender5]

Yes casters can interrupt, but the speed a mage's CS is up compared to the speed a rogue's kick is up is a very different cooldown.

In a 25 man going with 0 melee would be dumb. Besides the fact that lot's of melee gear drops and if there were no melee no one would get gear making naxx pretty much a waste of time.

Btw good luck in Ulduar when there are MANY caster unfriendly fights coming and you'll be thinking damn I wish I was melee


edit: Mr Zombie what server?

[MrZombie]

I'm on Turalyon.

http://www.wowjutsu.com/us/turalyon/

In Just Wipe It

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by bender5

Yes casters can interrupt, but the speed a mage's CS is up compared to the speed a rogue's kick is up is a very different cooldown.

In a 25 man going with 0 melee would be dumb. Besides the fact that lot's of melee gear drops and if there were no melee no one would get gear making naxx pretty much a waste of time.

Btw good luck in Ulduar when there are MANY caster unfriendly fights coming and you'll be thinking damn I wish I was melee

Because Mages are the only ones who can interrupt, right?

The only Melee stuff that drops that nobody in a range/caster raid will get is Rogue gear.

There's no Cloth melee gear.
The Mail gear is for Hunters, who are ranged.
The Plate gear is for DKs, Pallies, and Warriors. You have to have tanks, so they get it.

How often do you bring every spec to a raid anyway? You'd need 11 specific specs to have a full raid of main-spec rolls.

Cloth - Caster / Healer
Leather - Melee / Caster / Healer (though this is gimped)
Mail - Melee / Caster / Healer (this is also gimped)
Plate - Melee / Tank / Healer (not gimped)

You would need all four heal types, all three spell dps, all three melee, and of course the tanks to guarantee the drops are not going to offspec. I don't know about you, but it's incredibly rare to see that in my raids.

I haven't seen anything of Ulduar yet because I don't care to mess around with unreleased content, but I highly doubt there will be much caster hate in Ulduar. Anything they do that hinders casters typically hinders melee too; it just doesn't work the other way around.

[tsugomaru]

The Heigan dance sucks under intense lag. However, you can get used to the delay so I'm not sure why people have issues. I see my friend do the dance and it looks like he keeps getting hit because he's one section ahead, but he's just lagging that badly. He also doesn't die.

Squeek is right about the whole "any fight that requires dps to do more than mash buttons" is a hard fight. We have melee dying in KT because they don't move out void zones at all. We have dps die because they don't get behind ice blocks on Saph. We have raid wipes because people just stand there when they get the disease from Grobbulus.

~Tsugomaru

[bender5]

Omg I'm so happy! Just got my of the Nightfall title.

It took us 50 wipes, but we got it holy ****.

I turned out 5.1k dps on the final attempt ahead in damage by 100k.

The run was caught on video by 2 members in the raid, so I'll post our zerg.

Our final time was 84 seconds from start to finish

Holy adrenaline batman

edit: Screen Shot, vid will come in next few days

[bender5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-TdBHXESIw

bump/double post w/e

video of our zerg

[Squeek]

Patch is about 95% confirmed to be tomorrow.

Whoo

[Sullyman2007]

Time to replace all my spell power enchants with spirit. Yay.

[Sir Psycho]

Time to respec myself the same way as I always have! And do absolutely nothing differently

[tsugomaru]

If it's not tomorrow, it'll be very soon. The patch video is already up on their site.

~Tsugomaru