12-6-2013, 03:41 PM | #41 | |
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Re: Snowden
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I'd rather take the chance of possibly enduring another extremely rare massive homeland attack* if it means that the ideals and liberties that this country were founded on remain intact. Some of nyokou's points I agree with. We wouldn't need to have such a large system for spying in place if we weren't already expecting blowback from our previous incursions into other nations' business. We started the fire, and then told everyone it's ok if they are constantly getting drenched by water because without that water we'd all burn down. This is just short-sighted. Now, I realize that I'm coming off as naive and idealistic. I realize that the past has already happened, and that we need to find a practical way for dealing with our mistakes in the past. I've moved from my staunch position of completely bashing programs like PRISM, which I believe can be utilized effectively when regulated properly. I still don't agree with certain programs(XKeycore, Tempora) but I understand the motive behind it. Regardless, I'm well aware that the rest of the world most definitely engages in similar spying, even if the scope isn't the same as the US's; we need to make sure we remain on pace in that area. I'm just tired of the US creating such international hate and purposefully making US citizens feel as if they are constantly in danger. Attractive hit this on the head. Fojar, you just don't seem to distrust your government in the slightest, and that completely baffles me. I wish I possessed your implicit trust and patriotism, but I do not. *Note: Do not mistake my reliance on statistics of terrorist attacks as a lack of appreciation for human life and the horrible effects that come from foreign attacks. I just believe it's a self-inflicted wound coming back to bite us, and really isn't even our biggest concern as a nation. |
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12-6-2013, 06:13 PM | #42 | |
The Worst
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Re: Snowden
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12-6-2013, 06:29 PM | #43 |
Mrow~
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Re: Snowden
attractive confirmed actual conspiracy theorist
Also I think my views correspond the most with Tps222 at the top of this page.
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12-6-2013, 06:40 PM | #44 | ||||||
The Worst
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Re: Snowden
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big brother isn't some well put together cabal of bigwigs, it's a guy in a bathrobe who sits around getting high and masturbating all day, and is lucky if he can make it to the mailbox. Quote:
the real danger are the idealists that are willing to sacrifice hundreds or thousands of lives to promote their ideals.
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12-6-2013, 07:33 PM | #45 |
FFR Veteran
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Re: Snowden
The funny thing is, if Attractive was telling you the same things a year ago that Snowden is releasing now, you'd still tell him he's a conspiratard.
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12-7-2013, 05:42 AM | #46 |
The Worst
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Re: Snowden
that the NSA monitors communications? nah pretty sure everyone already knew that.
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12-7-2013, 05:58 AM | #47 |
Mrow~
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Re: Snowden
I'm wondering about how many actual crimes the US government commits with help of the information obtained by the NSA, compared to how much they prevent with the help of the information obtained by the NSA. Fojar seems to believe a lot more harm is prevented than caused, but I'm unsure.
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12-7-2013, 03:28 PM | #49 |
The Worst
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Re: Snowden
yeah some of that stuff happened (i only read like 5 of them because so many links, and some of them were conspiracy theory stuff) but you're taking acts and ascribing motivations for those acts for which there is no evidence.
the US government (at least post bush era) is not looking to start fights where there are none.
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12-7-2013, 03:49 PM | #50 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 133
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Re: Snowden
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ok so you have an organization that has a history of clandestine involvement in the affairs of other countries and operates under a code of secrecy, there are even records of this organization's involvement in the overthrowing of various governments. ever since the creation of this organization their m.o. has been the shaping of foreign politics through subterfuge, sabotage, spying, the use of undercover agents, and generally the disruption of groups whose aims are not conducive to the aims of the usa. you are assuming that this organization no longer does this? you are assuming that they do not play a role in all of the chaos that is going on in the middle east? that is incredibly naive...almost forcefully so. if you look at what they have done in the past you can see what they are capable of. it is no conspiracy theory, just an educated guess based on the organization's prior history and how they operate. edit: i should have been clearer in my first post. i said that the government wants more terrorists... while they may not always want more terrorists, they dont want "terrorism" to stop. if "terrorism" were to stop then the pretext of US involvement in the middle east would be completely invalid and the militarization of police at home would be much less justified. terrorism is a word the government uses to demonize people and justify extreme actions like torture and the bombing of civilians. it is impossible for terrorism to stop because the people claiming to fight terrorism are the same people who have defined what terrorism is and can thus turn anything into a terrorist act simply by saying it was so. the real threat of terrorism to your everyday american is pretty much non-existent. Last edited by Attractive; 12-7-2013 at 04:08 PM.. |
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12-7-2013, 05:45 PM | #51 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,757
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Re: Snowden
so close to syria though
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12-8-2013, 06:36 AM | #52 | |
The Worst
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Re: Snowden
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you have no idea what you're talking about man. have you ever heard of a suicide bombing facilitator? have you watched international news ever? you know that the USA is not the only country that is targeted right? if you think terrorism is something that the government makes up, i have a few links for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2001 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2002 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2003 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2004 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...80%93June_2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...3December_2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...80%93June_2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...3December_2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...80%93June_2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...3December_2013 yeah sorry at the end there they have to start breaking the list in half cause it's too long otherwise.
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12-8-2013, 12:54 PM | #53 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 133
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Re: Snowden
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you are clearly so biased that you have closed your eyes to any thing which your government has told you not to believe. all of your arguments are straight from the horses mouth. those links dont prove anything. did you even read through all of them? do you even know the stories of each of the individual incidents? some of the "terror" incidents even had the central intelligence agency listed as the perpetrator. some of them were simple executions and shootouts... hardly "terrorist" activities. in the international community, terrorism has no binding criminal law definition.... therefore it IS something that the government made up. plain and simple, terrorism is a word the government uses to demonize groups of people and justify horrific crimes. you can make a list of incidents and call them "terrorist incidents", but what does that accomplish aside from sensationalizing the incidents? |
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12-8-2013, 01:13 PM | #54 |
The Worst
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Re: Snowden
by your definition, everything is made up, because it's just some word that someone made to describe something
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12-8-2013, 01:17 PM | #55 |
The Worst
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Re: Snowden
it's terror because they're killing civilians indiscriminately to make a point.
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12-8-2013, 01:19 PM | #56 |
FFR Player
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Re: Snowden
I think he's saying that there isn't a commonly accepted standard to define acts of terror for statistical data.
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12-8-2013, 01:20 PM | #57 |
The Worst
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Re: Snowden
and i'm saying that statistical data is not what we're arguing. his argument is that terrorism is made up, and i'm saying that it's not. there are people who kill just to make a point
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12-16-2013, 05:45 PM | #58 | |
FFR Player
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Re: Snowden
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/16/justic...html?hpt=hp_t1 He's a god damn hero. |
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