TWG CLXIV: Classics Man - Game Thread

[MixMasterLar]

Witch of Certainty
Town Vigilante

Three years of mafia experience, folks: Can't hunt wolves, can't be around for EoD knowing there's heat on him to claim, can't leave useful opinions for town at all in the game, likely was the one who shot Raeko because they where sheeping the ever loving shit out of Shado

I should feel pretty salty for that mislynch but honestly I don't really think that was a bad choice for a lynch even now. AA jumping off Shado for it is hysterical in hindsight but as noted before in this game AA loves CFDing at the last second so I should have aw that coming.


Anyway

I recall Shado saying something pretty disgusting at EoD that I wished I had time to tell with some let me go back and pull that up real quick

[Hakulyte]

Interesting stuff about Witch

@ #1969

Likeliness of this being true is relatively high;

Vigi -> Charu
NK -> Raeko (probably hunting PR/framing Shado)

Originally Posted by thesunfan

the push on Witch is a typically d0 mislynch imo because of how certain people are viewing Witch as being nonhelpful, and while I admit that their style of play has gone from more than being simply a clash with typical FFR meta and has gotten into play that I do think is not as seasoned as most people on FFR (not offering alternatives despite not liking the direction of the thread) because we do not know Witch, this is not a point against Witch.

Not having alternative worlds, and refusing to expand on reads/being unable to develop worlds when asked is not inherently a wolfy trait. Look at the explanations that Witch has given. Over and over, they have said that they cannot give what they do not have. This is consistent, and more likely to come from a town than a wolf. One of the coolest reads I saw when I was a new video mafia player on DM was a townread on someone given by a player that is well respected. The basis for the townread was because the player had no townreads towards the end of the day. The justification was because scum is more likely to make things up rather than admit to having nothing compared to town. I thought it was the coolest shit at the time.

I think I can say the same thing accurately about Witch this game. I honestly think that part of AA's vote (probably a small part and probably something AA won't admit to as of now) is because he thinks that Witch is being unhelpful, which I think is dumb.

it has gotten to the point of the phase where you need to vote for a wagon and start campaigning for that wagon to be lynched, or start defending other wagons, or both.

2 votes being the lead with 30 minutes left is terrible.

I encourage people to vote for DBP because of his lack of presence and his mostly absence of original thoughts. I admit that he will probably solve himself by tomorrow, but I still believe he is the best lynch for today. It is at the point where he has had more than ample time to prove that he is townie, and because there are people who have him as weak town rather than strong makes me feel like I am more likely to be right about his alignment; he would be strong town to more people if he were town.

Votes for Proph are not terrible, but they are worse than votes for DBP imo.

if you're someone and you're not voting for Witch, DBP or Proph, you better be campaigning for someone to be lynched by the time I get done typing this sentence, because otherwise, you might as well be doing nothing.

Sunfan seems to have a good grasp of how Witch plays. Makes me wonder if they played together before or if it's just a similar style to what he's seen before.

@MML

Are you sure they voluntary NK'd AA to leave Shado open for a lynch?

[Hakulyte]

Also, I'm pretty upset at you having only 36 posts yesterday. Were you like super busy with life or something?

[MixMasterLar]

I think it's this progression right here:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

You're literally wrong and are causing this game to end with your death if you're town.
Just saying.

Your stubbornness is almost making me think you're town, because I don't see why wolfAA would tie himself so strongly to someone he knows is town, but then I remember that you're exceedingly good at emulating your town tells as wolf, which should include stubbornness to the point of gamethrowing.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

DUDE
LOOK AT EOD YESTERDAY
THERE'S NO WAY I'M A WOLF
IN WHAT WORLD DO I TRY TO PULL PEOPLE OFF A MISLYNCH WITH THREE OTHER WAGONS THAT THEY COULD LAND ON?
Do you think I, as wolf, risk losing a wolfpartner to look slightly more towny in a mislynch?

You're stuck on imaginary reasoning from an interaction based on intentions you've either imagined or fabricated to suit a tunnel so deep you can't even call it china anymore
smh dude what's wrong with you this game
you refuse to re-evaluate, your read doesn't progress at all and doesn't change at all or account for anything that's happened this phase. It's literally one interaction from D0 that you're stuck on
that's just.. BAD
get off me! vote literally anyone else, but get off me!

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I'm VT.
I think Xel was referring to me when he said that he knew who the vigi was because I was hard-townreading him last phase and he said he knew who the vigi was after saying "they could've easily nightkilled me"

Which makes him look a lot worse imo for voting me.

XelNya
CFD onto here, please!

I don't think is Witch is wolfy, but I know I'm town so I'll definitely selfpres if it comes down to it.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

no comments on anything else I've said? really?!
dude I'm not a wolf and I'm telling you I'll happily die for you if we hit red. vote someone else!

See Shado and AA spent most of the day calling each other wolf

When it comes down to the wire and Shado is on the losing end of the war he basically starts appealing to AA's emotions. That's pretty gross.

AA of course buys into it after noted that it's AtE and telling himself he wont do it just to do it anyway. I started the Witch wagon but watching AA's EoD after what happened on DPB and me the last game just kind of proves that whatever AA has been saying the entire day phase doesn't mean jack all for him at the end. As they say, noted.

Vote can stay on Shado though because I'll be damned if we had pages upon pages of grudge match that turned out to be TvT. Shado is getting lynched 100% of the time here and our job is to find his partners today.

[Hakulyte]

@MML

Did you say something about me trending downward yesterday near EoD?

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

@MML

Are you sure they voluntary NK'd AA to leave Shado open for a lynch?

Did I say that?

Wolves killed AA because he was not only heavily townread but would absolutely be on fire today. It doesn't matter if it looks suspicious right play in that situation is kill off AA and point out how it's too obvious to be true if you're the wolf

Which make this super interesting that you knee-jerk to this excuse, Haku.

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Also, I'm pretty upset at you having only 36 posts yesterday. Were you like super busy with life or something?

For only having 36 posts I guess it's still too many for you to read huh? You'd know that I did end up just taking some me time (Actually went to Krul Lake, Munson but didn't realize it was drained this time of year) followed by 15 hours of extra sleep followed by frantically trying to catch up in the thread. At one point last night I was alternating between responding to current posts and posts made 20 hours prior. I'd say my words-per-post has got to be impressive especially for someone posting at work (the reason I had to step away for two hours last night around 6-8 server time)


Anyhow---

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

unvote

CFD time~

Explain this and why you voted for Witch please. I know why I voted for Witch, I know why AA ended up voting for Witch, I don't know why you did. Also

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

You probably missed my post where I said "I'm going to act like Shado already flipped town".

Keep going with what makes sense for you.

As I pointed out in one of only 36 posts that you didn't fucking read, you turned around and didn't do this at all. Explain to me why you didn't and yet claimed you did, while still keeping a vote on Shado.

Although typing all that out, I feel like I already know the answer

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

@MML

Did you say something about me trending downward yesterday near EoD?

Oh yeah


Just addressed it. Ball's in your court.


Also if Witch actually shot Charu and Wolves actually killed Raeko then lols

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Explain this and why you voted for Witch please. I know why I voted for Witch, I know why AA ended up voting for Witch, I don't know why you did.

My EoD progression was;

Voting Shado -> faking AFK
Checking Shado's reaction -> coming back
Voting Xel -> unvoting

I never voted Witch.

jsayin'

[MixMasterLar]

Also Haku imma need you to quote your progression on Witch for me just a heads up because that CFD really is that nasty

[Hakulyte]

As I said, I never voted Witch hello.

[MixMasterLar]

Ahhhh true, that last one was Shado. Ok my bad



But you did unvote Shado to put him in a 3 way KitB though so it seems like you where massively cool with Witch dying

So I feel like my question still stands

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

I think Witch is 100% a wolf in this scenario. See what I responded to Proph with at the beginning of the post. I don't buy that his "difference in playing because he hunts town and not scum" is a good reason to clear him of his early game and that defense of Shado was disgusting. He even asks us to just "stop suspecting him"

Like wow.

Yeah no Witch is 100% a wolf here guys.

Shado is probably 95% wolf though. Well above the OK line on lynching him.



duck you buddy

Heh? That's very interesting coming from you MML.

I unvoted Xel because I wasn't sure if he was town or not.
I refused to vote Witch and the only other wagon was Shado.
So, I simply didn't vote here. KitB would have been fine imo.

...

Shado broke the 3/3/3 to self-pres so, that also makes sense to me. He was kinda forced here.

[Hakulyte]

btw, if you go back 10-20 pages before I'm the one talking with Witch about why Shado is town and we were agreeing on how to make a village because that was easier for solving the game than directly finding wolves at this point.

Witch was like one of my top towns at this point.

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Heh? That's very interesting coming from you MML.

Yep, that's something I said.

Yep, I addressed my reasoning for it then and restated at just 30 minutes ago

No, you didn't question those who pushed on DBP like this when that was actually a worst push. That's the best part about this!

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I unvoted Xel because I wasn't sure if he was town or not.
I refused to vote Witch and the only other wagon was Shado.
So, I simply didn't vote here. KitB would have been fine imo.

...

Shado broke the 3/3/3 to self-pres so, that also makes sense to me. He was kinda forced here.

You where still ok with Witch dying though, even so far as to say "KitB would be fine" With no progression.

Not voting is pretty garbage in it's own right.

You still are not answering me about why you unvoted Shado? It's not like you pretended he was already flipped green even though you said you did

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Haku vote Xel!
I'll self pres if I have to but vote Xel!

On the other hand, this is pretty disgusting.

[MixMasterLar]

Unvoting Shado and then trying to come at me with that "only 36 posts" bullshit looks mighty bad on you by the by

Looked turbo bad when I thought you actually voted Witch but now you just look wishy-washy more then anything.

[MixMasterLar]

Answer me Haku, Why did you unvote Shado?

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

You still are not answering me about why you unvoted Shado? It's not like you pretended he was already flipped green even though you said you did

The reason I have 199 posts yesterday is because I spent a huge chunk of time trying to build my town reads and comparing if Shado town, if AA town, if both town.

I would have prefered to vote outside of Shado/AA because it felt obvious to me it wasn't W/W and if there's a town between the two, I want him alive for this phase.

I could have been wrong about Witch and Xel didn't feel safe "if Shado was wolf".

I'm not known for having the best EoD decisions as well. You can tell I wasn't happy after I saw that "3/3/3" wagon.

[Hakulyte]

It's safer to find Wolf #2 or Wolf #3 than killing Shado/AA in this scenario imo.

[Hakulyte]

Voting me is lol tier at this point btw.