Interesting indeed - Page 7

**Cenright** · 12-11-2003, 12:12 AM

When you are doing infinity/infinity, you never actually have to divide them. They become a concept which makes them not even divided. The infinities just negate each other to an extent. What kind of constants you have on it is how it comes out differenty, but you never have to atually do inf/inf. There are always other factors that are in the equation. It sounds weird, and you go in thinking what you are thinking, but Calculus blows your mind and you do understand if afterward. You can't just explain it without fully getting into the math.

scorpio1690 · 12-11-2003, 12:24 AM

Well... If you wouldn't mind, I'm writing two english papers right now but I'd still like to at least learn a bit lol. So please, if you want, go into the math, or explain what leads up to calc. or how it works or at least somethin to get me concentrating on one thing and not fuckin bouncin from physics to trig. to whatever else I think of.

Off Topic: This is probably the longest most intelligent topic I've ever seen or been a part of on FFR

makaveli121212 · 12-11-2003, 05:57 AM

it is obvious many of you dont know a lot about calac...infinity/infinity can be any number...ANY NUMBER depending on the function...if you want to know how look up a guy named L'Hospital...i mentioned this before in this thread

**87x** · 12-11-2003, 08:30 AM

well instead of thinking infinity / infinity.. get out of that boxed frame of mind that says you can't do it because its not real.. well think of it like this..
ifinity continues on forever therefore we cant think of a nuemerical value to represent it.. so we use any value that we know infinity had to pass to get where it is going..
for infinity to be a number it has to go through all the numbers we know and keep continuing..
so lets substitue infinity with 7.. now anything divided by itself = 1.. so letting 7 represent infinity would be 7/7=1... now lets swtich that up so that 1000 represents infinity, 1000/1000=1... and you could follow that forever..
BUT WAIT.. saying infinity / infinity gives it a numerical value.. but thats not right because infinity has no numereical value.. so instead of substituting numbers we could set it up like this..
A B
Infinity / Infinity
1 / 1 = 1
2 / 2 = 2

let this chart represent a program that divides the constantly running number in column A by the constantly running number in column B... now in each column we will have 2 infinitys running forever at the same time.. while these two infinitys are running everytime they switch numbers the program will divide the numbers... and the answer will always be 1.. forever.. using this we can say that infinty/infinity = 1....

VxDx · 12-11-2003, 09:25 AM

here's the deal. infinity divided by infinity is meaningless. It isn't, one, zero, a constant, an irrational number, or infinity (+ or -).

the idea that makaveli is supporting is the closest to right, and 87x is right in a very specific sense. (edit: centright is right too, but since I haven't read what everyone said, I'm not going to list everyone who's been right.)

87x basically said that lim(n->inf) n/n = 1 which is true. (the limit as n approaches infinity of n divided by n)

makaveli said that it could be anything, which is true as well. take for instance

lim(x->inf) x^2/x = lim(x->inf) x = infinity
lim(x->inf) 2x/x = lim(x->inf) 2 = 2
lim(x->inf) 2/x = 0

but in each case, it can be written infinity/infinity.

heyhey11 · 12-11-2003, 09:30 AM

ok this is my brain before entering this thread O
This is my brain now \ /
----- <---------- BOOM (sound affects)
/ \

**jimerax** · 12-11-2003, 10:11 AM

More infinity/infinity case, for example,

lim(n->inf) x^n = infinity (n=positive integer, x=positive real number),
lim(n->inf) n! = infinity,

then for arbitrary x,

lim(n->inf) x^n/n! = 0

infinity/infinity has no decisive answer, the answer is different in each case as we showed.

**87x** · 12-11-2003, 10:45 AM

Quote:

87x basically said that lim(n->inf) n/n = 1 which is true. (the limit as n approaches infinity of n divided by n)

I love it when people say im right..

makaveli121212 · 12-11-2003, 01:45 PM

yeah well you did say 2 / 2 = 2, 5 posts before me here

Anticrombie0909 · 12-11-2003, 05:33 PM

This is completely off topic, but since I find them interesting and nobody read the thread that was intended for them, and there's no other intelligent place to put them, I figured people might want to take a break from the insanely complicated math and rock their noodles for awhile. Here's a paradox I know of.

A knight guards a path that goes over a hill and leads to a kingdom. This knight has the ability to distinguish who is telling a lie and who is being honest. If they lie, he kills them. If they are honest, he lets them pass. One day, a man walks up the hill and the knight says "Stop! Identify your reason for passing into this kingdom." The man says "I am here for you to kill me." What does the knight do? He can't kill him, because he was telling the truth. But if he lets him pass then the man will have been lying, so he should kill him, but he was telling the truth in the first place. See if you can figure it out.

Here's another one that isn't a paradox because it has an answer, but it took me a minute to figure out.

There is a fork in the road. One way leads to Truth Town, where everyone tells the truth, and one leads to Liar Town, where everybody lies. You come to the fork and stop to think. You want to get to Truth Town, but you don't know which way it is. You see a local and decide to ask for directions to truth town. But you can't tell which town they are from, and if they are from Liar Town, they will lie. What can you ask the local so that no matter what town he is from, he will always tell you where Truth Town is?

scorpio1690 · 12-11-2003, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anticrombie0909

This is completely off topic, but since I find them interesting and nobody read the thread that was intended for them, and there's no other intelligent place to put them, I figured people might want to take a break from the insanely complicated math and rock their noodles for awhile. Here's a paradox I know of.

A knight guards a path that goes over a hill and leads to a kingdom. This knight has the ability to distinguish who is telling a lie and who is being honest. If they lie, he kills them. If they are honest, he lets them pass. One day, a man walks up the hill and the knight says "Stop! Identify your reason for passing into this kingdom." The man says "I am here for you to kill me." What does the knight do? He can't kill him, because he was telling the truth. But if he lets him pass then the man will have been lying, so he should kill him, but he was telling the truth in the first place. See if you can figure it out.

Here's another one that isn't a paradox because it has an answer, but it took me a minute to figure out.

There is a fork in the road. One way leads to Truth Town, where everyone tells the truth, and one leads to Liar Town, where everybody lies. You come to the fork and stop to think. You want to get to Truth Town, but you don't know which way it is. You see a local and decide to ask for directions to truth town. But you can't tell which town they are from, and if they are from Liar Town, they will lie. What can you ask the local so that no matter what town he is from, he will always tell you where Truth Town is?

For the first one, the man could have been lying by saying he;s there to be killed. And the second one, I use to know the answer, but then forgot. You shoot the man and take the 50-50 chance

jpyb007 · 12-11-2003, 05:49 PM

That's possible...but then the knight would have to kill him and what the person said would become true, then the knight would have to let the dead body pass since what the person said would become true.

The second one's pretty simple...you ask them what town they came from...the liar would point to Truth and the person from Truth would point to Truth.

scorpio1690 · 12-11-2003, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpyb007

The second one's pretty simple...you ask them what town they came from...the liar would point to Truth and the person from Truth would point to Truth.

Then you shoot him for making you think.

jpyb007 · 12-11-2003, 05:54 PM

Sounds good...then you go to Truth since the truth almost always sucks, then shoot the people of Truth.

**lightdarkness** · 12-11-2003, 05:56 PM

is it weird i dont know what the fuck is going on?
what are you guys smokeing
i thought infinity was a little kids word meaning
Billy:"when i grow up i want a million billion dollars"
Jonny: "Yeah, well i want an infinity dollars"
Billy:"well i want an infinity plus 1"
Jonny: "i want an infinity times infinity"
Billy:"Damn, im a failur, gg, k thx"

jpyb007 · 12-11-2003, 06:19 PM

Infinity is a concept of a "never-ending number", mostly thought as too big a number to reach by counting or any mathematical process. There is no end to infinity, I'm pretty sure about that, but this is all just a bunch of stuff to make people think. Don't let it bother you lightdarkness.

This is confusing...how can 2 / 2 = 2? (See Makavelis post...then the post that reffers to)

Falcon · 12-11-2003, 07:20 PM

for anti's first riddle: the knight kills him. if the man is lying, then the knight would kill him regardless. if the man is telling the truth, then the knight kills him because that is truthfully the reason that he is there, to be killed.

as for infinity, i hate calculus. i've got to take my second course in it next semester, and i'm not thrilled.

logically, any number divided by itself is 1, as 87x stated (except of course 0/0). the concept of infinity in the universe is beyond mine, and i dare say any, of our minds to logically comprehend and break down into something that makes sense. the thought that something could go forever without ever returning to its starting place is too abstract for my mind to make sense of. however, in that case, where would space end? and when it ends, what would happen? is there pure nothingness? or would you eventually return to your starting place, as if the universe is a giant sphere? food for thought, because i dont know the answers... at least not without devoting way too much time to thinkin about this and way too little time studying for my exams.

also, i didnt read all 10 pages. sorry if i repeated anything.

Lupin_the_3rd · 12-11-2003, 07:24 PM

y'all have probably heard this "googleplex" times over, but a monster is going to kill a man (there is no way to escape). The monster wants the man to tell a story before he eats him, so what does the man say?

Falcon · 12-11-2003, 07:47 PM

nothing.

and wholly crap. i just read/skimmed the majority of this thread. i really wanted to get some studying done tonight...

lets see. Moogy, how can you define "nothing"? if you define it, it is obviously something. therefore, we are all overwhelmed by something that amounts to nothing, which is something. and there is no real purpose in saying that we are all overwhelmed by nothing and therefore dont matter, because if that was true then we would have no purpose to live. therefore, why would we continue to? we would have no motivation to live or do anything at all, including reproduce, because it would be meaningless. i think this is why the vast majority of the public chooses not to think about subjects such as this.

as far as what, 6 or 7 pages ago, the big bang theory cannot be true. if it were, where did the initial matter come from that came together to cause the big bang? also, this theory goes completely against the... i think its the 3rd... law of thermodynamics, which says that the universe is in a constant state of decay, regardless of time (entropy). now, wouldnt the big bang theory be going completely against that? let me emphasize: big bang theory and the laws of thermodynamics. laws cannot be broken. period. and, saying that there was matter that caused the big bang, when did it come about? where did it come from? this goes back to the theory of infinity, that space has always been here and will always be here, at least until entropy takes over and destroys it. now, this previous statement makes no sense to me. everything must have an origin. at this point... i would get into a religious debate. but i'm gonna steer away from that.

Lupin_the_3rd · 12-11-2003, 07:48 PM

Falcon said "nothing"
if that's directed towards my post, nope doesn't work (there's a better answer)

12-11-2003, 12:12 AM	#121
Cenright You thought I was a GUY?! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Beaumont (A town with 25 times fewer people than this site) Age: 37 Posts: 3,139	When you are doing infinity/infinity, you never actually have to divide them. They become a concept which makes them not even divided. The infinities just negate each other to an extent. What kind of constants you have on it is how it comes out differenty, but you never have to atually do inf/inf. There are always other factors that are in the equation. It sounds weird, and you go in thinking what you are thinking, but Calculus blows your mind and you do understand if afterward. You can't just explain it without fully getting into the math. __________________ http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...Cube_in_55.mpg

12-11-2003, 08:30 AM	#124
87x Retired Staff Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: VA Age: 38 Posts: 4,379	well instead of thinking infinity / infinity.. get out of that boxed frame of mind that says you can't do it because its not real.. well think of it like this.. ifinity continues on forever therefore we cant think of a nuemerical value to represent it.. so we use any value that we know infinity had to pass to get where it is going.. for infinity to be a number it has to go through all the numbers we know and keep continuing.. so lets substitue infinity with 7.. now anything divided by itself = 1.. so letting 7 represent infinity would be 7/7=1... now lets swtich that up so that 1000 represents infinity, 1000/1000=1... and you could follow that forever.. BUT WAIT.. saying infinity / infinity gives it a numerical value.. but thats not right because infinity has no numereical value.. so instead of substituting numbers we could set it up like this.. A B Infinity / Infinity 1 / 1 = 1 2 / 2 = 2 let this chart represent a program that divides the constantly running number in column A by the constantly running number in column B... now in each column we will have 2 infinitys running forever at the same time.. while these two infinitys are running everytime they switch numbers the program will divide the numbers... and the answer will always be 1.. forever.. using this we can say that infinty/infinity = 1.... __________________ RAVEnHEXa: Lip ring is because I want to be a professional piercer. 87x: more like.. professional goth.

12-11-2003, 05:49 PM	#132
jpyb007 FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Someplace Far Away from Reality Posts: 58	That's possible...but then the knight would have to kill him and what the person said would become true, then the knight would have to let the dead body pass since what the person said would become true. The second one's pretty simple...you ask them what town they came from...the liar would point to Truth and the person from Truth would point to Truth. __________________ \"A single death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic.\" \"Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.\"

12-11-2003, 05:54 PM	#134
jpyb007 FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Someplace Far Away from Reality Posts: 58	Sounds good...then you go to Truth since the truth almost always sucks, then shoot the people of Truth. __________________ \"A single death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic.\" \"Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.\"

12-11-2003, 05:56 PM	#135
lightdarkness Summer!! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York Age: 35 Posts: 11,308	is it weird i dont know what the fuck is going on? what are you guys smokeing i thought infinity was a little kids word meaning Billy:"when i grow up i want a million billion dollars" Jonny: "Yeah, well i want an infinity dollars" Billy:"well i want an infinity plus 1" Jonny: "i want an infinity times infinity" Billy:"Damn, im a failur, gg, k thx" __________________

12-11-2003, 12:24 AM	#122
scorpio1690 FFR Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: canada eh? Age: 33 Posts: 4,817	Well... If you wouldn't mind, I'm writing two english papers right now but I'd still like to at least learn a bit lol. So please, if you want, go into the math, or explain what leads up to calc. or how it works or at least somethin to get me concentrating on one thing and not fuckin bouncin from physics to trig. to whatever else I think of. Off Topic: This is probably the longest most intelligent topic I've ever seen or been a part of on FFR

12-11-2003, 09:25 AM	#125
VxDx FFR Player Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,871	here's the deal. infinity divided by infinity is meaningless. It isn't, one, zero, a constant, an irrational number, or infinity (+ or -). the idea that makaveli is supporting is the closest to right, and 87x is right in a very specific sense. (edit: centright is right too, but since I haven't read what everyone said, I'm not going to list everyone who's been right.) 87x basically said that lim(n->inf) n/n = 1 which is true. (the limit as n approaches infinity of n divided by n) makaveli said that it could be anything, which is true as well. take for instance lim(x->inf) x^2/x = lim(x->inf) x = infinity lim(x->inf) 2x/x = lim(x->inf) 2 = 2 lim(x->inf) 2/x = 0 but in each case, it can be written infinity/infinity.

12-11-2003, 10:11 AM	#127
jimerax ★_★★^★★ Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tokyo Posts: 8,185	More infinity/infinity case, for example, lim(n->inf) x^n = infinity (n=positive integer, x=positive real number), lim(n->inf) n! = infinity, then for arbitrary x, lim(n->inf) x^n/n! = 0 infinity/infinity has no decisive answer, the answer is different in each case as we showed.

12-11-2003, 05:33 PM	#130
Anticrombie0909 FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,683	This is completely off topic, but since I find them interesting and nobody read the thread that was intended for them, and there's no other intelligent place to put them, I figured people might want to take a break from the insanely complicated math and rock their noodles for awhile. Here's a paradox I know of. A knight guards a path that goes over a hill and leads to a kingdom. This knight has the ability to distinguish who is telling a lie and who is being honest. If they lie, he kills them. If they are honest, he lets them pass. One day, a man walks up the hill and the knight says "Stop! Identify your reason for passing into this kingdom." The man says "I am here for you to kill me." What does the knight do? He can't kill him, because he was telling the truth. But if he lets him pass then the man will have been lying, so he should kill him, but he was telling the truth in the first place. See if you can figure it out. Here's another one that isn't a paradox because it has an answer, but it took me a minute to figure out. There is a fork in the road. One way leads to Truth Town, where everyone tells the truth, and one leads to Liar Town, where everybody lies. You come to the fork and stop to think. You want to get to Truth Town, but you don't know which way it is. You see a local and decide to ask for directions to truth town. But you can't tell which town they are from, and if they are from Liar Town, they will lie. What can you ask the local so that no matter what town he is from, he will always tell you where Truth Town is?

12-11-2003, 06:19 PM	#136
jpyb007 FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Someplace Far Away from Reality Posts: 58	Infinity is a concept of a "never-ending number", mostly thought as too big a number to reach by counting or any mathematical process. There is no end to infinity, I'm pretty sure about that, but this is all just a bunch of stuff to make people think. Don't let it bother you lightdarkness. This is confusing...how can 2 / 2 = 2? (See Makavelis post...then the post that reffers to) __________________ \"A single death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic.\" \"Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.\"

12-11-2003, 07:20 PM	#137
Falcon FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 433	for anti's first riddle: the knight kills him. if the man is lying, then the knight would kill him regardless. if the man is telling the truth, then the knight kills him because that is truthfully the reason that he is there, to be killed. as for infinity, i hate calculus. i've got to take my second course in it next semester, and i'm not thrilled. logically, any number divided by itself is 1, as 87x stated (except of course 0/0). the concept of infinity in the universe is beyond mine, and i dare say any, of our minds to logically comprehend and break down into something that makes sense. the thought that something could go forever without ever returning to its starting place is too abstract for my mind to make sense of. however, in that case, where would space end? and when it ends, what would happen? is there pure nothingness? or would you eventually return to your starting place, as if the universe is a giant sphere? food for thought, because i dont know the answers... at least not without devoting way too much time to thinkin about this and way too little time studying for my exams. also, i didnt read all 10 pages. sorry if i repeated anything. __________________

12-11-2003, 07:24 PM	#138
Lupin_the_3rd FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,665	y'all have probably heard this "googleplex" times over, but a monster is going to kill a man (there is no way to escape). The monster wants the man to tell a story before he eats him, so what does the man say?

12-11-2003, 07:47 PM	#139
Falcon FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 433	nothing. and wholly crap. i just read/skimmed the majority of this thread. i really wanted to get some studying done tonight... lets see. Moogy, how can you define "nothing"? if you define it, it is obviously something. therefore, we are all overwhelmed by something that amounts to nothing, which is something. and there is no real purpose in saying that we are all overwhelmed by nothing and therefore dont matter, because if that was true then we would have no purpose to live. therefore, why would we continue to? we would have no motivation to live or do anything at all, including reproduce, because it would be meaningless. i think this is why the vast majority of the public chooses not to think about subjects such as this. as far as what, 6 or 7 pages ago, the big bang theory cannot be true. if it were, where did the initial matter come from that came together to cause the big bang? also, this theory goes completely against the... i think its the 3rd... law of thermodynamics, which says that the universe is in a constant state of decay, regardless of time (entropy). now, wouldnt the big bang theory be going completely against that? let me emphasize: big bang theory and the laws of thermodynamics. laws cannot be broken. period. and, saying that there was matter that caused the big bang, when did it come about? where did it come from? this goes back to the theory of infinity, that space has always been here and will always be here, at least until entropy takes over and destroys it. now, this previous statement makes no sense to me. everything must have an origin. at this point... i would get into a religious debate. but i'm gonna steer away from that. __________________

12-11-2003, 07:48 PM	#140
Lupin_the_3rd FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,665	Falcon said "nothing" if that's directed towards my post, nope doesn't work (there's a better answer)

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