emotional intelligence

[awein999]

http://www.danielgoleman.info/blog/t...-intelligence/

I've been reading this book, Emotional Intelligence, and I find it fascinating. It's everything I've been thinking about people, grades, other forms of intelligence besides the purely intellectual.

how it relates to me: The k-12 system (I'm currently a senior) tends to put you in a room and bash you on the head with purely intellectual concepts such as just about all the academic classes in high schools (exception being social science but it's not a required class). At least in my high school, Weston MA, most students eventually come to only care about grades and they become increasingly obedient as they move up the chains in the k-12 grade system. Less imagination is used and we are taught to conform and obey like little drones. We learn to take a huge range of concepts and simplify it as much as possible, almost never the other way around. This is what the big corporations want, little drones who obey without question, little factory workers and sorters who don't understand what he or she want in life. Albert Einstein once said "Imagination is more important than knowledge".

of course the book touches upon a lot more aspects of life then this, the main point of the book is that emotional intelligence is more important than intellectual intelligence and that the two different life skills are indepedent of each other. There are people with lower IQ's that "succeed" in society while people with higher IQ's "don't succeed" (succeed as in ultimately do what they want in life, what makes them happy, not necessarily the most respected job or the biggest home) because emotional intelligence is not shown in the IQ, IQ really is a very small part of life. Emotional Intelligence, the book, states that Intellectual ability is 20% and emotional intelligence is 80% of influence in life's successes.

It sure made me feel happy that someone else in the world thinks about intelligence in a similar way that I do.

Anyone else ever heard or read this book? Any thoughts?

[Mollocephalus]

so what exactly is emotional intelligence and how is it defined?

[awein999]

emotional intelligence is a term that describes the ability, capacity, skill or a self-perceived ability, to identify, assess, and manage the emotions of one's self, of others, and of groups

[korny]

This is something I couldn't agree with more. Having the ability to successfully analyze the mood and setting of ones environment, makes you an incredibly intelligent person in it's own retrospect. Some people are completely lacking in this area, and from experience, use their intellect to cover up their flaws in this area. Awesome. I might get this book.

[MrRubix]

I've read plenty of books about the subject, and I think it's all pretty fascinating, but I also think that the concept is horribly overblown. Intelligence is merely your ability to think rationally, learn, conceptualize, etc. You can apply it to various things, including emotions -- which derive from your own hardwiring. People tend to forget that the ability to perform "emotional" skills like empathy require intellectualized, rational thought. It's just that people choose to apply intellect to different things. You'll also notice plenty of intelligent people who are also very "emotionally" intelligent because they too understand how rationalization fits into the whole picture.

This is also different from how the education system is structured -- I just think it sucks altogether because there's too much fact-memorization and plug-and-chug taught rather than critical thought, asking the right questions, and tackling problems dynamically. Of course, to do that you need very good teachers, which is never guaranteed.

Saying that one type of intelligence is more important than the other is a little suspect, especially with ratios like 80% and 20%. If our world were run by "emotional intelligence," we'd have pretty **** progression. Whether or not most people realize it, many favorable aspects to life are the result of rational thought and "booksmart" intelligence. Social skills do help traverse the social structure we've set up that encapsulates our economy, cultural progression, career choices, education, etc, and so there's no denying that they're important for utility purposes. But I'd say that to say "emotional intelligence is more important" is a bit misleading. They're both important for different reasons.

[Tokzic]

Originally Posted by awein999

of course the book touches upon a lot more aspects of life then this, the main point of the book is that emotional intelligence is more important than intellectual intelligence and that the two different life skills are indepedent of each other. There are people with lower IQ's that "succeed" in society while people with higher IQ's "don't succeed" (succeed as in ultimately do what they want in life, what makes them happy, not necessarily the most respected job or the biggest home) because emotional intelligence is not shown in the IQ, IQ really is a very small part of life. Emotional Intelligence, the book, states that Intellectual ability is 20% and emotional intelligence is 80% of influence in life's successes.

One really big problem I'm taking from this is that you seem to have this idea that emotional intelligence encompasses everything that isn't covered in an IQ test. That's not how it works. Emotional intelligence is a very secluded branch of intelligence that really only applies to empathy and is a small part of socializing. Having a high emotional intelligence has extremely little to do with whether or not you're a successful person.

I read somewhere when I was reading about classifications of intelligence that some people think there is a sort of "success intelligence" - that is, being smart enough to do everything you need to do, to aspire, to create and follow goals, and so on. None of these things are covered on an IQ test, and they certainly play a very large role in whether or not you succeed, yet emotional intelligence has nothing to do with them whatsoever.

By the way, emotional intelligence is intellectual ability.

[PhaeL v2]

My english skills doesn't let me formulate an appropriate post to this thread.
The subject is great, but I can't "translate" my thoughts to english, too many things.

[awein999]

glad to hear from some people, Tokzic nice thoughts, definitely getting me to think differently.

[MrRubix]

Well what I tend to find is that those who tout "emotional intelligence" as superior are usually doing so because they're inept at academics and need an excuse to claim that what they're bad at doesn't matter.

The truth is that being able to think rationally will undoubtedly get you far in life in terms of career/academics, but there's no denying that being good with people is essential if you plan on holding a career, which will undoubtedly involve other people. Either way, being able to hold healthy relationships requires the same sort of intellectualized, rational approaches that any other skill or subject calls for.

[awein999]

Originally Posted by KgZ

if you were truly emotionally intelligent you would already know that in order to build relationships in schools, you need to show effort, and to do that you complete assignments instead of making whiny excuses like "this is useless, I dont need to learn this."

getting a good grade in academics is not the only way to show effort with other people. Other key factors are your personality, how you work and get along with others. Often where effort is shown beyond a grade is more "impressive" to others.

[MrRubix]

Originally Posted by awein999

Often where effort is shown beyond a grade is more "impressive" to others.

Elaborate?

[funmonkey54]

Originally Posted by MrRubix

Elaborate?

This please. Because the way I am interpreting that statement is that people are more impressed with the effort put into something than the outcome. This is most certainly not always true. Take the example of art. There are many people who could work and put many years of effort into a painting/song/etc. and have it turn out far below the level of quality that someone with high natural ability puts out in a few hours.

Slightly more relevant is in school. I take from your examples of grades that you are suggesting that a teacher would value a students work when they put a large amount of effort into it more than that of a much more intelligent student who threw together a very beautiful work with less effort. This is also not always true, obviously depending entirely upon the gearing of the instructor grading the work, but chances are the greater work would be rewarded more than that of the high effort with a poor result.

My point in this is that the result is just as important and often times more important than the level of effort put out in the process.

[awein999]

I agree doing well academically in school is important. What I mean is a person who gets A's in academic classes is not necessarily the person the society likes the most and sometimes they don't even end up being "successful" (successful is not necessarilly having the highest paying job, the biggest house etc.) after school. We like the nice people, the people good at communicating, the people willing to help others for others, not for his or herself. Sometimes that is the person who gets straight A's, and sometimes it isn't.

I'm open to others opinions and ideas on this, if I feel you presented me better evidence for otherwise, I'll change my opinion.

[MrRubix]

Originally Posted by awein999

I agree doing well academically in school is important. What I mean is a person who gets A's in academic classes is not necessarily the person the society likes the most and sometimes they don't even end up being "successful" (successful is not necessarilly having the highest paying job, the biggest house etc.) after school. We like the nice people, the people good at communicating, the people willing to help others for others, not for his or herself. Sometimes that is the person who gets straight A's, and sometimes it isn't.

Just because you like someone doesn't mean they're going to get further in life with respect to career/etc. Nobody wants to hire someone who's nice but can't produce value/results that justify their pay level. Again, though, it all depends on what your goals are in life. If you're after a high-paying career, you absolutely need to have skills. Being good with people though is indeed its own skill (consider managers), but it's a specific skill set and it's ludicrous to imply that it's somehow 4 times as important as all other intellectualized/ability-oriented skillsets. Sometimes companies are fine with hiring complete assholes who are bad with people but can deliver on amazing skill. Other times they need teamwork that calls for a certain social sensitivity in addition to other skills.

I think that so many things call for teamwork such that it's important to be emotionally aware and understanding of the psychology and underlying relationship dynamics, and so to some extent I do think that being good with people opens more doors for you, but again, you have to be able to deliver on skill, which is harder to come by.

[awein999]

your right.

values change from individual to individual

[stargroup]

Rubix pretty much covered most everything I was about to say.

Originally Posted by Tokzic

Emotional intelligence is a very secluded branch of intelligence that really only applies to empathy and is a small part of socializing. Having a high emotional intelligence has extremely little to do with whether or not you're a successful person.

Wrong. Emotional intelligence is certainly not as narrow as you make it sound. Logos refers to IQ, but ethos and pathos are all related to EQ, and it is important to a person in order to function normally in society, as well as just being able to talk to other people.

As for being successful, there's never a concrete way to say whether or not someone will be or not. Perhaps someone with only average IQ/EQ has a revolutionary idea, or perhaps someone is just lucky and pushes himself/herself to the top. However, the general trend is that people with at least average EQ or IQ and an incredible measure of the other one do really well in real life.


The rest of this is a crosspost from KBO:

I think you guys have some misconceptions. There are some points in here that are valid, most definitely, but many of the ideas you have brought forth are actually not true.

Originally Posted by awein999

of course the book touches upon a lot more aspects of life then this, the main point of the book is that emotional intelligence is more important than intellectual intelligence and that the two different life skills are indepedent of each other. There are people with lower IQ's that "succeed" in society while people with higher IQ's "don't succeed" (succeed as in ultimately do what they want in life, what makes them happy, not necessarily the most respected job or the biggest home) because emotional intelligence is not shown in the IQ, IQ really is a very small part of life. Emotional Intelligence, the book, states that Intellectual ability is 20% and emotional intelligence is 80% of influence in life's successes.

Emotional intelligence (EQ) is more important than IQ, but only in a practical sense. Overall, however, the most important thing is balance. This is true.

However, it is impossible to assign percentages like you have here. 80%/20% might be applicable to a janitor, but for a physicist, you would obviously need to have much more IQ. It's all conditional. Part of EQ/IQ is being able to figure out how much EQ/IQ you actually need for each circumstance and being able to adequately adjust to your surroundings.

So while your general concept is correct, you're misguided about the importance of each.

Originally Posted by awein999

how it relates to me: The k-12 system (I'm currently a senior) tends to put you in a room and bash you on the head with purely intellectual concepts such as just about all the academic classes in high schools (exception being social science but it's not a required class). At least in my high school, Weston MA, most students eventually come to only care about grades and they become increasingly obedient as they move up the chains in the k-12 grade system. Less imagination is used and we are taught to conform and obey like little drones. We learn to take a huge range of concepts and simplify it as much as possible, almost never the other way around. This is what the big corporations want, little drones who obey without question, little factory workers and sorters who don't understand what he or she want in life. Albert Einstein once said "Imagination is more important than knowledge".

This is a load of bull. You're only trying to make excuses for yourself.

First of all, school has no influence over a person's EQ/IQ level. School only enters information into our brains, but computing power resides in the person itself and nothing else. In fact, your EQ/IQ level is mostly determined by genes and interaction at home. The fact that you blame the school for this is completely inaccurate.

However, as a senior, I'm sure you indeed have taken a few courses that in fact do "limit your creativity." However, these courses are only found in the upper levels, and are debatable. From K-8, there should be almost no dispute that the education is at the very least adequate enough to endorse creativity while learning new concepts. High school, once again, is debatable.

The problem with the education system in this country is not that it limits your creativity. In fact, we are actually pretty well off. We have tons of resources. The only problem is that these resources are being wasted, and the system is not personalized enough. There's actually nothing wrong with the teaching. The teaching is fine.

On that note, enough about the education system. That's a completely different topic altogether.

[korny]

Originally Posted by KgZ

thats the same thing as effort

also I can be a nice person and have a great personality but if I can't get good grades aka have a poor work ethic nobody will care.

Can't tell where you were going with this, but try selling security systems without having even a high school diploma. My friends make a 100K plus figure because their "emotional intelligence" is "high". Were I as well connected as them I would be doing it right there with them.

Academics are important for a career requiring them to whatever extent that they're necessary. That same career could also require a certain degree of "emotional intelligence". People boasting intellectual intelligence to be greater, can be doing so because they lack the emotional intelligence that others do, and likewise, this can be reversed. To say either one is greater or more important is futile, because certain careers don't require certain things and can produce just as much money, ultimately leading to the success and happiness you'll achieve in the end.

[korny]

Ah, I can see how you got confused reading that. I meant the opposite of how you perceived it. You said "if I can't get good grades aka have a poor work ethic nobody will care." And I was simply disagreeing.

[MrRubix]

For any job you can provide an example for where you can earn 100K from "emotional intelligence," I can give you hundreds where skills and brains win out. It's not impossible to succeed with crappy grades/etc, but it's certainly a lot harder.

I also want to make a distinction: Getting a job through family connections doesn't have anything to do with emotional intelligence. If you're good at BS'ing your way through an interview though even if you're devoid of skill, then emotional intelligence would help in this regard -- of course, don't expect to get promoted much if you're actually an underperformer.

Rational/academic intelligence is the primary driving force that keeps our world advancing -- "emotional intelligence" merely greases the wheels and acts as a way to advertise your underlying assets. Of course, you need the assets to advertise to get anywhere.

[korny]

Originally Posted by MrRubix

For any job you can provide an example for where you can earn 100K from "emotional intelligence," I can give you hundreds where skills and brains win out. It's not impossible to succeed with crappy grades/etc, but it's certainly a lot harder.

Of course you can. With that fact put out there, lets just completely disregard emotional intelligence altogether! Since there are more high paying careers requiring academic credentials.

Also, I don't remember saying anything about family connections. I'm loving this presumptuous attitude. Can't help but feel like everything you've said surrounding the emotional intelligence area, has been biased and likewise, condescending towards it's importance and value.