Atheism/Theism thread

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

You don't know because you have yet to know the love of God. One day you will.

I don't know because I didn't ask them.

They aren't theists.

[Nullifidian]

What if your suicide saves millions of lives? If you sacrifice your own life to save millions of others, it's still a suicide.

Things aren't as black and white as the bible makes it out to be.

[rushyrulz]

"Why do you think your family members aren't atheists?"
"I don't know I never asked them"
"IT'S BECAUSE YOU DON'T ACCEPT GOD'S LOVING GRACE THAT'S WHY!"

Am I the only one scratching their head at this argument? What does the belief of your family members have anything to do with self-perception of God?

[Pseudo Enigma]

i am a strong independent atheist and i don't need no god's love

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Romans 8:28
Timothy 4:6

Googled these and they have nothing to do with what you said. Therefore you argument is moot. Kill yourself.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...28&version=NIV

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...-8&version=NIV

No mention of suicide in the slightest. Of course they are purposefully ambiguous so that you can make them mean whatever you feel like when most convenient to you.

Feel free to try and find something that explicitly mentions suicide.

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by ilikexd

I don't know because I didn't ask them.

They aren't theists.

Then you lied. I asked you if your family members where atheists, and you replied, "No". Now you are saying you havent asked them. Which is it?

refer to post #373, let's hear your reasoning on this one my friend.

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Then you lied. I asked you if your family members where atheists, and you replied, "No". Now you are saying you havent asked them. Which is it?

I did not lie.

No, you asked me, "Why do you think your family members aren't atheists?"

I answered, "I don't know." because I have not asked them to justify/defend/reason their ideas about God.

[korny]

Going back to the whole "mormonism is the craziest 1 of them all", I always find this really funny when people say this as if it strengthens any sort of argument. As an agnostic and ex mormon having been raised and gone through it all and currently living with my devout family members, i must say i have never witnessed a more cohesive element in any sort of family i have ever encountered. My family is the shit and we have all grown to respect and understand each other in ways more accepting than you would find in practically any other sect of christianity or even non religious. Although each case is circumstantial, regarding this topic specifically people just don't know what the fuck they're talking about and follow the stigma like sheep. My point is this basically, i feel that my families religion makes them not feel the need to ask enough questions about the nature of reality and what is and what isn't, and that can at times genuinely frustrate me, but my family stands out, period. In numerous ways i have been complimented by how unique my family operates, and this can most definitely be attributed to the immense focus their religion has on family itself, and quite honestly, i wouldn't trade it for anything. Religion can be a very good thing, and yes, it can be god awful. Accretion, evolution, etc, my parents believe in all of that, they just so happen to believe a god was behind all of it.

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Great, Happy Birthday btw. Are your family members atheists?

Originally Posted by ilikexd

No.

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Why do you think that is?

Originally Posted by ilikexd

I don't know.

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

You don't know because you have yet to know the love of God. One day you will.

Originally Posted by ilikexd

I don't know because I didn't ask them.

They aren't theists.

Originally Posted by ilikexd

I did not lie.

No, you asked me, "Why do you think your family members aren't atheists?"

I answered, "I don't know." because I have not asked them to justify/defend/reason their ideas about God.

You say they arent atheists. You also say they arent theists. You also say you have not asked them to justify/defend/reason their ideas about God.

You must be confused then. If your family believes in a God, then they are theists. If you don't understand why they are theists, that doesnt mean they aren't theists. It doesn't seem like they are agnostic, it's more of a matter that you just haven't spoke with them on the subject. You still lied though even if wasn't intentional, you just didn't realize it.

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

That's not the question i asked you. I asked you, "Are you close with your family? Mother, father, brothers, sisters?"

Originally Posted by ilikexd

Yeah I just celebrated my birthday today with my family.

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Great, Happy Birthday btw. Are your family members atheists?

Originally Posted by ilikexd

No.

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Why do you think that is?

Originally Posted by ilikexd

I don't know.

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

You don't know because you have yet to know the love of God. One day you will.

Originally Posted by ilikexd

I don't know because I didn't ask them.

They aren't theists.

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Then you lied. I asked you if your family members where atheists, and you replied, "No". Now you are saying you havent asked them. Which is it?

You made a mistake.

"I don't know" was a response to "Why do you think they aren't atheists?"
"No" was a response to "Are your family members atheists?"

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

You say they arent atheists. You also say they arent theists. You also say you have not asked them to justify/defend/reason their ideas about God.

You must be confused then. If your family believes in a God, then they are theists. If you don't understand why they are theists, that doesnt mean they aren't theists. It doesn't seem like they are agnostic, it's more of a matter that you just haven't spoke with them on the subject. You still lied though even if wasn't intentional, you just didn't realize it.

My brother is agnostic and my mother is something of a pantheist. I have asked them what they call themselves. I didn't get into detail so far as asking them to justify their reasoning.

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by ilikexd

You made a mistake.

"I don't know" was a response to "Why do you think they aren't atheists?"
"No" was a response to "Are your family members atheists?"

I understand you may have a reading deficiency, but please bear with me. You posted the exact same aforementioned dialogue in chronolgical order as I have, take a a couple minutes to compare both of our posts and you will see. I said you have lied because you say your family members aren't theists just because you haven't asked them about their ideas of God.

Ok so your mother is "something of a pantheist". Is that what she told you or is she not sure what she is? What about your father?

[Nullifidian]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

I understand you may have a reading deficiency

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

I understand you may have a reading deficiency, but please bear with me. You posted the exact same aforementioned dialogue in chronolgical order as I have, take a a couple minutes to compare both of our posts and you will see. I said you have lied because you say your family members aren't theists just because you haven't asked them about their ideas of God.

I skipped second grade because of my exceptional reading abilities. I'm currently very interested in linguistics, can speak three languages, and am employed as a Spanish tutor.

I see you posted the same conversation that I did. I didn't see that you had posted it before I posted it because I did not refresh the page.

I asked my brother and mother, "What do you think about God?". They answered, "I'm an agnostic." and "I'm something of a pantheist.", respectively.

I say my family members aren't theists (at least in the sense of traditional monotheism) because that is what they say.

[Mollocephalus]

jj will you take a moment to reply to this?

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus

Jj continues yet again to support the laughable concept that life without god is a miserable life.

Whoever drilled that concept in your head, i feel pity for you. there is SO MUCH you can experience to be one with the universe, so many different scales of emotional intensities you can feel for other people, for yourself, and for the beauty of life in general, that god is not the only way to get to them. It's actually the worst way, designed for people who can't think for themselves, or have been carefully instructed not to. But i suppose that while i find your faith to be source of bigotry, misleading, deeply wrong and as a whole disgusting, you will never understand the heights a person can reach just with human mind's innate curiosity, exploring and discovering life and the universe. To you everything outside your little fairytale world is nonsense. I'd leave it a that, but if i can understand why you feel what you feel through faith, why can't you understand that someone could experience a similar feeling of "ascension" or even a stronger one through the simple pleasure of discover and being intimately connected to the world? I just want you to reply to this, if you can.

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Ok so your mother is "something of a pantheist". Is that what she told you or is she not sure what she is? What about your father?

She told me that; my father is deceased, and I don't know.

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by ilikexd

She told me that; my father is deceased, and I don't know.

Pantheism is a very broad viewpoint but in terms of religion, has several elements that tie to Hinduism and Taoism which says ultimately the universe has come forth from the Divine, all things and beings are "sacred" and must be treated so in human thought and action. The quality of most theism beliefs(including Christianity) are actually very similar to each other as opposed to atheistic beliefs which focuses constantly on the seperation of the Divine or the unity of the Universe by idolizing "human thought" and the capacity of "human thought" alone holds the highest degree of prominence. The concept of devoted atheists do not utilize the significance of "sacred" heart-felt actions because they would say the sole functioning purpose of the heart is to provide a continuous blood circulation through the cardiac cycle. Therefore one who's mind is strictly focused on the obtainment of knowledge in "science", will never experience the full abundant knowledge of "love".

Yes, the devoted atheist will never love as much as the devoted theist.

Theist - Love > Science
Atheist - Science > Love

[Mollocephalus]

I like how you've avoided replying when called out two times in a row.

[star reaper]

One thing i have noticed about this entire conversation is that many people are assuming facts about one another. I honestly find it annoying seeing that many have assumed something that isn't true.

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus

I like how you've avoided replying when called out two times in a row.

My reply is this: How can you "understand why I feel what I feel through faith" if you say, " I find your faith to be source of bigotry, misleading, deeply wrong, and as a whole disgusting"?

The fact is you don't understand.