I should really stop thinking

[Yanah_God]

It just makes me sound like a complete jackass/idiot:

w00tz dude999: I wonder, if we found the formulae of the rules of existence and the ability to compute it and convert those computations into a model of the universe, given a certain amount of time passed, if we could tell the future.
nightcat000: .... u lost me after the i
w00tz dude999: And if we could, and we calculated what would occur if we do such a thing, it would most probably have us looking at the calculation.
w00tz dude999: At that point, there would be an infinate amount of calculations.
nightcat000: heh..
w00tz dude999: And no matter how powerful the computer, it would simply overload with data.
nightcat000: stop thinking.. u'r brains going to explode
w00tz dude999: So, we could tell the future, but only up until the point at which we try to tell it.
w00tz dude999: Which means we cannot see into the future.
w00tz dude999: Even though the answers to the formulae would exist, they would be too complex to be held in the universe, and thus unsolvable.
w00tz dude999: So we could learn precisely what had happened in the past, and everything about the universe elsewhere, but it is impossible to calculate the future.
w00tz dude999: I just solved that in 5 seconds in my head, I want to see someone give an arguement as to why we WOULD be able to look into the future.
w00tz dude999: No comments?

[Tps222]

I doubt we would be able to predict the future. Basic Quantum Mechanics, Chaos theory. The probability of the exact things ocurring again are very small. If we could, it would be a "Immovable Object vs Unstoppable force) Time and Computer respectively.

[Yanah_God]

I believe that the universe is made from very exact calculations, so exact instances would always occur the same way, but in order for them to be exact, they would have to be placed in the EXACT same spot in space, time, surroundings (IE the universe must be the same) and any other extra-dimensional properties that may or may not exist would have to be the same. If any of these are different the outcome would highly likely to be different. Since time is always progressing, in a sense, nothing ever occurs exactly twice.

Of course, what do I know? I'm only 14. :P

I hate the fact that I think about these things, since I hate people who think about it who don't know shit about anything relating to the subject, myself being one of them.

[NaOTa4231]

I was going to major in Astrophysics, but switched to Finance. : ) Interesting stuff to say the least.

Yanah God thats a good thing your thinking about this already. Most kids at the age of 14 are definitely thinking about other things.

[Neonatrias]

XD Not really. This kind of thing runs through more people's heads than we probably realize, I think.

In any case...This is a very interesting idea. oO;; Confusing to grasp at first, but it does, at the very least, make SOME sense. Nice thinking, that is.

[Tps222]

w00tz dude999: And if we could, and we calculated what would occur if we do such a thing, it would most probably have us looking at the calculation.
w00tz dude999: At that point, there would be an infinate amount of calculations.

That's the part that I don't understand. Why would we end up not being able to predict any farther, what is stopping us, if we had an infinite amount of computing power, why not?

I believe that the universe is made from very exact calculations, so exact instances would always occur the same way, but in order for them to be exact, they would have to be placed in the EXACT same spot in space, time, surroundings (IE the universe must be the same) and any other extra-dimensional properties that may or may not exist would have to be the same. If any of these are different the outcome would highly likely to be different. Since time is always progressing, in a sense, nothing ever occurs exactly twice.

The exact formula's create chaos. For instance, some scientists believe that life on Earth was started from lightning striking and jumpstarting elements to create simple bacteria. The chance of that happeneing again at the exact place and time is extremely small. Your belief goes against most of the rules of Quantum Mechanics. Though, while your idea is entirely possible, there isn't any way to disprove nor prove it. Your idea of pre-set random chaos hurts my head, so stop it.

[Yanah_God]

I'm not saying it's random at all, I'm just saying that all the complex rules and such alter any outcomes dramatically. If everything does happen because of some "code" of physics, then given the EXACT same circumstances it would happen exactly the same.

At least that's what I believe. And I believe it strongly.

[Tps222]

Think of it this way.

Person codes a random number generator. The code tells it that everytime it is clicked, to generate a random number. Depending on the odds, the number is probably different. The same thing happens everytime when you click it, but the results may be different.

Does that help at all, with the Universe being the generator, and the results being the number?

[msbrunnettemickey]

Good thinking. I am a very deep thinker myself.

It's easier to learn about the past since it already happened, but..
You might be able to tell the obvious future.

Example:
You study very hard on the test and you just know you got a 100%
Hey look, you got a 100%.

Now you got me thinking... XD You can use the past to predict the future...

It's good you believe in something.. STICK ON TO IT! It might be right.

[Tps222]

Now you got me thinking... XD You can use the past to predict the future...

Whoa, you mean, that, you can use past experiences to determine how further ones will occurr? Does that have a name, oh wait, yea, it's called reasoning, the thing that us humans pride in. It's also classified as steroptyping, but that's another time.

[Yanah_God]

Originally Posted by Tps222

Think of it this way.

Person codes a random number generator. The code tells it that everytime it is clicked, to generate a random number. Depending on the odds, the number is probably different. The same thing happens everytime when you click it, but the results may be different.

Does that help at all, with the Universe being the generator, and the results being the number?

As you (should) know, a random number generator is impossible on a computer. The best we can do is fake it by doing something like taking the current millisecond and manipulating it, or doing an unimaginably complex calculation to get the next random result. The universe may do this, but I don't think it is actually RANDOM.

[Cenright]

The only problem is that humans are irrational beings. They are like a wrench in the middle of the equation.

[Yanah_God]

I have an explanation as to why that is wrong, but I don't feel like typing it out at this time of night. :P

[msbrunnettemickey]

Well..

Humans are only allowed to know what they can know.
Some things are safely kept away from them (us) because it is not meant for them (us) to know.

You might have theories. They might be right. But.. no one would know if they are/not, only something.. up there.. does.

That's why we have guesses/wishes/theories/beliefes.

[GuidoHunter]

This thread hurts my head, and not in the good this-is-deep way.

Originally Posted by Yanah God

Of course, what do I know? I'm only 14.

And it shows. This isn't to say anything against your critical thinking capbability, just that you're in a little over your head. Like, you say time is always progressing, but that's not entirely true for all contexts. A little knowledge goes a long way when you're trying to talk about the seemingly unknown when it's relatively known.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[dontcareaboutmyid]

PREPARE TO BE ASTONISHED!!!

For at this very moment I will predict the future.

I'm going to type some stuff explaining my predictionas to as sonon as I'm done typing this post I'm going to press the submit button.

edit: note the pressing of the submit button. I have succesfully predicted the future.

We can predict the future, its just that it's always done in a retarded way.

For example, I could say that after I'm done with this at school I'll be heading over to a hobby shop until three o clock which then I wil head to computer cafe to play bf2 for 7 hours, but how that happens is a complete mystery

[Tps222]

Well, he is referring to the unknown future, not the personally known.

[MonkeyFoo]

Indeed, you weren't predicting the future, but rather creating the future of an unnaturally occurring event.

Let's now imagine that there is a law of life, the universe and everything. Make a computer to calculate what will happen to the universe in the future, and it can't have the processing power to determine what even the computer itself will be able to do.

But then, if we imagine that there is an infinitely powerful computer that can calculate everything, including itself, all at once, and tell the future. It would have to be able to account for human thought. It would have to be able to account for the thoughts of the person that the computer gives the answer to. What this person does, at the very least what the chemicals and nerves do, what the light coming from the very screen does, depends on the reaction to what he sees on the screen of the computer. This creates an infinite paradox, impossible to calculate to an end. Thus, all you'd get from trying to calculate the future of the universe is an error. Here's where the brain pain comes: while the paradox is infinite, so is the computing power of the computer. It can't come up with an error, because in the instant it makes the calculations, it has reached the answer that cannot be reached. That's infinity for you...