Ban debate

[krunkykai22]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Makes sense, although honestly every time Anaru makes a new account it should be permanently banned, because it's just ban evading. Also, this situation is a bit different... because Anaru wasn't just banned from the site, but from the game too, since he BS'd multiple times on both the main game and the dragonsfury engine. At this point I just see someone who feels he's been wronged by the community, and is torn between taking revenge by being an ass to everyone, and trying to keep his "status" as an intelligent member and stepartist. What I don't see is any desire to improve the site or the community.

I'm not against second chances, but you don't get a second chance by just sticking around and breaking the same rules again and again until someone takes your side. You get a second chance by deserving to come back to the community again - by proving you can make a positive impact - and Anaru is about as far from this as anyone can get. Treating him like a normal member is an insult to everyone in the past who actually followed the rules and left the site when they were told to. Think about it this way: if you knew you could get away with as much as Anaru has, what would stop you from doing it in the first place? Why bother even having the concept of blacklists or permanent bans if you can get around them by just insulting people on the forums for a while?

Beautiful.

[blindreper1179]

If I remember correctly, someone wouldn't allowed BLAZE to submit songs for the batch because he was always ban evading. That may have been older judges, but that should still be a rule.

Also, he can be like the old group of people and make his own ODI, nothings stopping that.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Originally Posted by krunkykai22

Believe it or not Middie said the golden thing:

He's just kind of the person making this come to light in the event of any future people.


That's exactly what it is. Not necessarily PINNING Anaru for this whole debate, but his case is the prime example of what SHOULD NOT happen and the case where he shouldn't have ANY privileges for the constant evasion. I'm sorry, but it's true in the sheer fact that this should have been a rule a LONG time ago...

Let's also be very clear

I'm not a shining example of a community member myself. So I'm admittedly being somewhat hypocritical.

[Reincarnate]

Personally, I think the current draconian ban rules are pretty silly. They don't actually solve the underlying problems and give plenty of incentives to be increasingly annoying.

[Fluvs]

Lol this thread woah

[krunkykai22]

Yeah, I can agree with you on that, but myself as well. I wasn't such a golden example of a community member (remember my persona as the Asterisk Poster).

But, the thing is, I've come a LONG way from doing that and have shown in recent times that I don't do that anywhere near as much as I used to.

It doesn't matter necessarily what you do, more or less if it's wrong learn how to correct it. When you do the crime you have to realize it and prove that you can change. Change is imminent in life. If we can't value change, we can't value anything. At least, that's what I believe.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Personally, I think the current draconian ban rules are pretty silly. They don't actually solve the underlying problems and give plenty of incentives to be increasingly annoying.

Precisely why I said that there was no real solution and added those rhetorical situations -- regardless of what action is taken, a user can easily bring themselves back and do as they please.

qqwref definitely hit it on the head with his thoughts, but even with that said - what can be done to solve the particular issue, or any future issues?

[ichliebekase]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Makes sense, although honestly every time Anaru makes a new account it should be permanently banned, because it's just ban evading. Also, this situation is a bit different... because Anaru wasn't just banned from the site, but from the game too, since he BS'd multiple times on both the main game and the dragonsfury engine. At this point I just see someone who feels he's been wronged by the community, and is torn between taking revenge by being an ass to everyone, and trying to keep his "status" as an intelligent member and stepartist. What I don't see is any desire to improve the site or the community.

I'm not against second chances, but you don't get a second chance by just sticking around and breaking the same rules again and again until someone takes your side. You get a second chance by deserving to come back to the community again - by proving you can make a positive impact - and Anaru is about as far from this as anyone can get. Treating him like a normal member is an insult to everyone in the past who actually followed the rules and left the site when they were told to. Think about it this way: if you knew you could get away with as much as Anaru has, what would stop you from doing it in the first place? Why bother even having the concept of blacklists or permanent bans if you can get around them by just insulting people on the forums for a while?

This is definitely a strong point that no one has brought up. He was banned from the game even though, as Kayla mentioned, a ban from the game doesn't necessarily come with the "perma-ban package" (for lack of a better term). This is something that should seriously be considered by the administrators and anyone who thinks it's just a forum thing. It's a full game problem.

On another note, I can hardly comprehend what anaru says half the time anymore but that's another story.

[kommisar]

Originally Posted by Zakvvv666

I would also like to note that when Kommi got banned, he didn't spend his time ban evading/insulting other users, iirc he even took the time to write a letter of apology which got his ban shortened, now he's back and contributing to the site.

Well admittedly I did ban evade when I wanted to post something, or I had someone else do it for me. That lasted maybe a month or two.

But I'm not retarded, I knew exactly what I was getting myself into and for lack of proper conduct, I served my 8 months and wrote a formal apology to the staff.


I do think bans should be a case to case basis, whether it be for discipline or because said user is a complete waste of time for the community. People do mess up sometimes, but if they have legitimate interest in helping the site grow and want to dedicate time to work on community projects, I don't see why their ban shouldn't be reviewed (assuming it's a lengthy ban). I'm just using myself as an example but it's probably not the best one.

Getting rid of people takes a lot of work. It's easier to try and work with them to change their attitude/behavior rather than mechanically banning them every time an alt pops up. Might sound like a silly idea but the chore of banning somebody over and over usually just gives the person more incentive to come back again until they get bored of it.

[krunkykai22]

Create a new list of rules defining what a ban entails.

Give a clear descriptive rule set providing the examples of what will happen if you do what Anaru has done.

It HAS to be set in stone by the Administration. This site has so much potential with it's members, but there is no examples being set forth. It has to start.


EDIT:

Originally Posted by kommisar

I do think bans should be a case to case basis, whether it be for discipline or because said user is a complete waste of time for the community. People do mess up sometimes, but if they have legitimate interest in helping the site grow and want to dedicate time to work on community projects, I don't see why their ban shouldn't be reviewed (assuming it's a lengthy ban). I'm just using myself as an example but it's probably not the best one.

I have something to say to this first, I agree it should be a case to case scenario, BUT the popularity of the person should NOT be a reason why leniency is given. I personally feel that no matter what your skill is on this site or how much you've given to this site it shouldn't have any measure if you do something that is viable as a severe offense to the site. I'm sorry, but I can't stress that enough. Before the site went down, favoritism was a HUGE problem. We have to strive away from that.

[Reincarnate]

Technically, the rules are pretty clear. Dick around, and get banned from the forums. Make another account on the forums, your original account gets dicked even harder. Do it enough and it becomes a perma.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/....php?f=17&a=52

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by krunkykai22

Create a new list of rules defining what a ban entails.

Give a clear descriptive rule set providing the examples of what will happen if you do what Anaru has done.

It HAS to be set in stone by the Administration. This site has so much potential with it's members, but there is no examples being set forth. It has to start.

The problem with this is it really is case by case. Both on severity of what they did in the aspect that they are being banned for and if they're someone who's a first time offender, occasional offender, or someone that's just always causing problems.

[krunkykai22]

Then write a detailed list of "standard" cases that have happened already or that COULD happen. Yes the list would be extensive, but it would cover all the grey areas and could easily be referenced to in certain cases. There's only so many things someone can do to a forum or website to get perma banned or banned in general to be honest....

[kommisar]

Originally Posted by krunkykai22

I have something to say to this first, I agree it should be a case to case scenario, BUT the popularity of the person should NOT be a reason why leniency is given. I personally feel that no matter what your skill is on this site or how much you've given to this site it shouldn't have any measure if you do something that is viable as a severe offense to the site. I'm sorry, but I can't stress that enough. Before the site went down, favoritism was a HUGE problem. We have to strive away from that.

I didn't mention popularity. I'm mentioning the intention of the user. I'm not saying helping out with the game gives you a green card to be an asshat on the forums either.

If people get banned and want to keep messing around it's quite easy to do so. It's just a matter of how much it's worth consistently trying to keep them away from the site. If it's really a non-solvable case, then there are other ways of moderating who posts on the forums. Manual activation for accounts is tedious, but ODI did it and it worked out within their circle of people (not a great example but whatev.)

[krunkykai22]

Listen, it is opinionated. TO YOU he may be making jokes, to others it can come across as cruel. You have no right to tell us EXACTLY what it is, because it's just that, an opinion. You're opinion is noted and that's that.

EDIT: And Kommi I know you said nothing about popularity, that was me putting my /2cents in there with that term.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by krunkykai22

Then write a detailed list of "standard" cases that have happened already or that COULD happen. Yes the list would be extensive, but it would cover all the grey areas and could easily be referenced to in certain cases. There's only so many things someone can do to a forum or website to get perma banned or banned in general to be honest....

And this is the sort of logic that leads to our really complex tax code, legal system, etc.

You can't just make exhaustive cases for everything. At some point, you need to dynamically assess cases that fall between the cracks, or make a judgment call that may or may not have a slight variance of inconsistency due to different contexts.

[I like it]

[kommisar]

Originally Posted by krunkykai22

EDIT: And Kommi I know you said nothing about popularity, that was me putting my /2cents in there with that term.

though seemed blatantly geared towards me lmao. not taking any offense to it though.

[krunkykai22]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

And this is the sort of logic that leads to our really complex tax code, legal system, etc.

You can't just make exhaustive cases for everything. At some point, you need to dynamically assess cases that fall between the cracks, or make a judgment call that may or may not have a slight variance of inconsistency due to different contexts.

I agree, but if some cases can fall under other generalized cases, it "might" be easier to asses the situation in that scenario. I don't know, it could work or it could be a complete failure, but all I DO know is that something needs to be stated directly to everyone so they understand this stuff can't happen at all.


EDIT: @ Kommi - My apologies man it really wasn't lol my bad.

[psychoangel691]

There used to be specific lengths in place, people always complained that we weren't consistent with them because it would in fact vary based on the situation.