The Fitness Thread

[Jerry DB]

Originally Posted by SCWolf

Their lack of strength probably comes from lack of knowledge on how to properly build it. Genetics play a huge part in strength potential, but most people on gear should be able to out-lift most natural lifters.

It is definitely their lack of knowledge. I mean I don't really support roids in any way, but I can still respect somebody who really is into the bodybuilding sport and wants to truly be the best. I mean working hard is working hard so you can't hate on that. It's just everybody I know who does them is an idiot looking for a shortcut and they don't even have a true goal they have engrained in their minds. In my mind the fact that I can be stronger then these people even with their edge just gives that much more credit to the mentality of the sport, rather then just entirely the conditions. When someone comes along who is stronger then me I take satisfaction in knowing I can probably beat them in an MMA match. I've always been one to try and be the best at something and that's just me, although I don't like to go around just shoving my skills in peoples faces in a way that makes them feel inferior. It still feels good to talk about it and be encouraged for my hard work. 80% of the reason I fight is just to improve myself but it is nice to have that support net and recognition. Ranting here, kind of just tilted my head over and spilled some of my mind out.

@Reach(or whoever) I completely understand almost every sport that requires everything steroids can give, will take advantage and use them. I did kind of say that in a way that doesn't fully give my opinion. What I was trying to say is most of the top 10 fighters in each division are natty. Sure there are a fair amount of greats who have gotten caught, although it's usually trt abuse(Alistair did use roids though). Most of the top ten fighters besides a few exceptions look natty, have been in the division for years, constantly get random tests and never come up positive, they even attest to their clean lifestyle in a way that is entirely believable. Sure you may be doubtful but I've been an mma fan for years and have seen what gets you to the top and it isn't roids. I'm not saying roids wouldn't help but in fighting they just aren't required as much with weight divisions, general honor codes, and the fact that with everything else they are doing roids usually just leads to a shorter, more injury prone career. I just like the fact that literally every single champion in the UFC is natural(Although I wouldn't be entirely surprised if gsp or henderson used them, I highly doubt it though). There are great hero's of the sport and I love the entire sport down to the people who use roids, it's their decision and I respect it. I personally work harder knowing I don't have that advantage and love the fact that I'm still getting better without a sign of stopping unlike bodybuilding where I have constant ups and downs. I agree with you though there is still a ton of steroid abuse, it just happens more underground and at the lower levels of UFC in most cases, and I'm not playing naive and acting like it doesn't help in any way. I am just entirely committed to living a life that is natural and mma supports that all the way to the top unlike...everything else manly haha

[Senip]

It's hilarious that you think that most mma fighters (looking at the shit they have to do, the amount they eat, how they have to diet etc) aren't using if they're at the top. Roids don't make you suddenly jacked, its how you push yourself while on them. There's random drug testing, but there is in almost every other sport too, I'm sure they're just "random" enough that they can wean off them in time or get someone else's piss. Look at Lance Armstrong, for god's sake. he was tested constantly and came up clean, it wasn't until later that it came out that he was in fact not.

I would put out that most people who take roids and don't get stronger are either 1) eating like a jackass and not fueling their body or 2) getting bad drugs (all the sides, none of the benefits, woo!). Most of my friends at the gym who take it get such a power increase that it's really humbling to work out with them when they're on.

[Jerry DB]

Originally Posted by Senip

It's hilarious that you think that most mma fighters (looking at the shit they have to do, the amount they eat, how they have to diet etc) aren't using if they're at the top. Roids don't make you suddenly jacked, its how you push yourself while on them. There's random drug testing, but there is in almost every other sport too, I'm sure they're just "random" enough that they can wean off them in time or get someone else's piss. Look at Lance Armstrong, for god's sake. he was tested constantly and came up clean, it wasn't until later that it came out that he was in fact not.


I would put out that most people who take roids and don't get stronger are either 1) eating like a jackass and not fueling their body or 2) getting bad drugs (all the sides, none of the benefits, woo!). Most of my friends at the gym who take it get such a power increase that it's really humbling to work out with them when they're on.

no offence but most of those points were not a counter argument to what I was saying and the ones that were show just how much of an mma fan you aren't. I'm not even trying to insult you by saying this but it's true, you're just a bodybuilder and you have a way of thinking if somebody doesn't do something your way or they aren't the biggest mother fucker out there it isn't worth your time and it's wrong. You're a tough looking dude for sure and it looks like you have come far with your progress so you obviously what your doing works, but when there are so many people at the top who try different routines/diets you can't say only you're way is the best way every time, especially when there are a ton of things still being done today to innovate the fitness world. This isn't true for everybody but the thing I hate about roids is the ego boost everybody I know gets from them. My friends who take them are constantly taking their shirts off JUST to show off constantly and literally only do things for attention and to brag themselves up. Instead of spending time learning a little more anatomy/biology/training they spend all their time thinking of how much of a tough guy they are even though they don't even practice fighting either. It's not like fighting should be enforced on everybody I'm not saying that, just if you're are going to act like you could beat everybody up maybe do what you talk about all the time instead of talking about it(although I'm also not trying to encourage people beating other people up lol). I agree with your points about steroids being effective, and my friends who do them are definitely idiots who train wrong/poor diet. This isn't my only point for why I don't use steroids, in fact if it was my major point that would be stupid because I wouldn't have to act like that and I know what I'm doing, I just don't take them.
I believe there have only been a handful of UFC fighters(not sure about other organizations) that have been caught, but I still know that yes, probably around half the guys in the ufc are using, but it really does have a pattern of ending more at the upper level. Maybe it's the confidence of already being at the top so you know you don't need an extra edge as much, but in most cases mma fighters are much more strict about steroid use.


The fact of the matter is mma is still a sport(regardless of stuff that's hard to prove) that is entirely reasonable to get to the top without roid use. Even if there is a guy I end up fighting on roids, it wouldn't matter too much to me because we are in the same weight class. Although I would rather have a more even playing field, there is nothing I would rather do then prove that spending 15-20 hours a week pushing myself will trump over someone on juice with the same genetics pushing themselves 6-8 hours a week. What if they worked just as hard as me and still take roids? Well the beauty in that is I can still win just the same, where as in bodybuilding we all know who would lose.
I really am not trying to insult you, you a determined guy and I respect you. You however were just born with better genetics then me and you could actually use juice to push yourself to the top of the bodybuilding world if done properly. For me I could never get to the top of the bodybuilding world even if I did do juice I would just be some guy on juice, doesn't sound like a good career for me. The chances of me making a career in mma is still VERY hard to achieve, but the payout is actually greater anyways and it's more achievable for me. Plus my interests are suited for fighting and I've been doing it for nearly 7 years off and on(mostly on). I agree roids are a huge edge in most cases of every sport. You still have to have a little faith in humanity though. I mean there are so many instances with genetics alone where somebody could do steroids properly and for a long time and a natural guy could still be stronger and look bigger, that's no secret. Doesn't mean any of them are at the top of any sport. Just as a small example though Reach looks actually more ripped then some ufc fighters and although he looks like a mesomorph to me, and I could be comparing him to some endomorph ufc fighters, he would still look like a ufc fighter regardless.
I know it's not all appearances and it's the strength and stamina boost that really matters, but technique trumps all of that and that is what fighting mostly is.
I'll stop for now since this is freaking huge for a forum post lmao, at least it's some activity right?

[Reincarnate]

afaik most people at the top are on something

[Senip]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

afaik most people at the top are on something

That's what I'm saying. Don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of the tops, it's just that I'm not silly enough to think they got there without doing anything when pretty much everyone else is on something.

[Jerry DB]

I respect and understand your opinions and I wouldn't change who I am even if everybody on top was a user. I can already fight for nearly 3 5 minute rounds and I can be pretty active during those rounds. Knowing somebody else could do it naturally with much more training and time put into is highly believable from where I'm standing. The way mma brings you up if you are active in it encourages you to stay natural, and I highly believe there are several people, even if they don't happen to be the majority, who are in the UFC and have the mindset to always stay natural and work as hard as they can and replace roids with a proper diet/massage/and tons of hydration. I mean it's not a replacement but you know what I'm saying. When I hang out with people who do mma, nearly all of them strongly disapprove of roids, where in just going to the gym with people to work out I have had people try to convince me several times to do roids. I'm not trying to talk down to bodybuilders, I highly respect the sport and all that. Maybe my beliefs hold me back but I find strength in sticking to who I am and never giving in to the temptation, and I've proven time and time again that skill trumps anything else in this sport by far by proving to people I can beat them in sparring even though I'm usually the smaller/weaker one every time. I'm not trying to brag too much or anything, these are just my beliefs and what pushes me forward. Plus I really am a bigger mma fan then you guys(could be opinion but I really am a fanatic) and although this may make me a little biased, I always try to be open minded. Simply saying everybody on the top is on roids is just a way of your mind doubting yourself and the abilities you could possess naturally. I'm NOT saying there aren't a good chunk of people in mma who use them, I'm NOT saying they aren't an advantage and could prove useful. I'm just saying you CAN make it to the top without using them, regardless if they're are only a few who do. They exist, where they really don't exist in bodybuilding, which is why I love mma so much. Regardless of opinion there is a significantly smaller percentage of roid use/encouragement from what I've seen in only 7 years of enjoying the sport. You guys are also saying most people at the top are using as if everybody on top is using. What I am trying to mostly say since we can't prove the numbers, is you can make it to the top, even be the very best while staying natural. If you guys trained in mma and followed it like I do I think you would agree a little more with what I am saying. Look up the top 10 pound for pound fighters and tell me which ones you think are using. I guarantee it isn't more then 50 percent, I would put all my possessions on it. There is no way to prove this but just look at them, see them fight/train/what they supplement on and what their diet is, and give it a second opinion.
I'm just going to list the top ten pound for pound from ufc.com because if you just look up top ten you might get a retarded list haha(not that this one is perfect but it is definitely a good example)
1 Anderson Silva
2 Jon Jones
3 Georges St-Pierre
4 Jose Aldo
5 Benson Henderson
6 Cain Velasquez
7 Demetrious Johnson
8 Renan Barao
9 Dominick Cruz
10 Frankie Edgar

[Senip]

I'm not trying to be like "you cant be natural at the top" but I also know its highly unlikely, even if they just are using something "small" like anavar, you know? Pretty much every MMA fighter I know at the gym are using, there's 1 guy who isn't. They say they don't, but then they get in the gym and they start talking to people who use as well about it, so you know, it's one of those things.

Roids have such a horrible reputation because of the stigma in the US that 99% of the people who are on, will never admit that they are. Same reason why if, I ever start, I certainly wont. it'll ruin your life if you come out/are found out, because people will just annihilate you.

[Jerry DB]

yea we both seem to agree with each other but just have different personal experiences from what I can tell. I personally think marijuana and steroids should be legal. Steroids definitely aren't for everyone and they aren't entirely safe but the huge danger is nobody being able to balance what they need correctly to take them with as few negative long term affects as possible. If it was legal we would be able to educate people about them and regulate correctly. I'm still a little concerned of some of the health affects but I don't honestly know enough about roids just because I've never been interested in taking them. I do know everything is exaggerated and there are just way to many people spreading propaganda. At the same time I don't believe they are perfectly safe long term, but again I just don't understand fully, it's just a big risk I don't need to take because I have confidence in my natural abilities.

[Choofers]

Originally Posted by Syhto

I just want to be goddamn massive.

sigged

[Senip]

Originally Posted by Choofers

sigged

goddammit choofers you're going to ruin my life.

[Choofers]

(o:

[Senip]

speaking of weed: smoked a little before gym, crazy pumps and felt everything working the way I wanted it to. Will do again.

[mnnicol]

I participated in my first ever eating competition today

All in all, lots of friendly people and the weather was decent (given the forecast said to expect a thunderstorm today)

Last year, there were only 4 people competing and the year before, there were only 6 people. This year, there were 16 people competing, and the guy who came in 1st (and also last year's winner) is supposedly a professional eater. Guy ended up eating 26 clam cakes in 10 mins (he ate 24 last year).

And I ended up in second place today eating 24 clam cakes. Soclose.jpg

1st place on the right, me in middle, 3rd on the left.


I think I was a bit self-conscious towards the start 'cos there were so many people watching us and it was my first time participating in an event like this. But hell, second place isn't too bad...I'll take it. Plus, I got a $50 gift voucher to the restaurant

[Choofers]

lookin kinda pale there, did you give blood recently

grats though!

[Jerry DB]

Originally Posted by Senip

speaking of weed: smoked a little before gym, crazy pumps and felt everything working the way I wanted it to. Will do again.

That's how I feel, it just lets you be more in tune and sensitive to the workout in my opinion. Everybody I know thinks it's crazy to smoke before you work out but I think they are letting it get too much into their head and aren't hydrated or something. I am about to quit smoking although I don't do it a huge amount anyways, or just get a vaporizer for when I do smoke. I want to have perfect lungs for when I step into the cage next summer. I might do it sooner but my goal is to be ahead of the pack and ready by next summer, gives me plenty of time to train hard and do tons of horrible conditioning. Actually smoking it isn't the greatest idea for me but meh, if nick/nate diaz can do it I feel safe with the amount I've done/rate I smoke

[Wayward Vagabond]

ive been drinking 2 gallons of water a day

thats not bad right

[Reach]

Originally Posted by Jerry DB

There is no way to prove this but just look at them, see them fight/train/what they supplement on and what their diet is, and give it a second opinion.
I'm just going to list the top ten pound for pound from ufc.com because if you just look up top ten you might get a retarded list haha(not that this one is perfect but it is definitely a good example)
1 Anderson Silva
2 Jon Jones
3 Georges St-Pierre
4 Jose Aldo
5 Benson Henderson
6 Cain Velasquez
7 Demetrious Johnson
8 Renan Barao
9 Dominick Cruz
10 Frankie Edgar

I completely recognize the fact that some MMA fighters are likely completely clean. Again, it's not like PEDs create talent or skill.

None of those guys have taken wet AAS compounds, which is probably what you associated with steroid usage.

HOWEVER, to be fair here, there are many types of PEDs and lot of these guys could be using the following and you would never ever know:

- hGH at a fairly low dose. The low dose is to avoid gaining water weight (or even excessive muscle weight) which would slow them down. It is mostly used to enhance recovery, allow them to tolerate more volume of work and MOSTLY for tendon strethening/repair. Fighters are like F1 racing cars: high performance but break VERY easily. A common approach is 4-6IU EOD.

- Insulin (mostly humalog or novolog). This is to facilitate recovery by enhancing glycogen resynthesis following training. It isn't used all the time; mostly after the most grueling training days (e.g. a day where they would have both high volume track work and strength training). Peptides are legal and anyone can get this shit at a pharmacy no questions asked. Very hard to detect on a piss test. Ez money.

- EPO. The role of EPO for improving endurance is well known. For that reason it is mostly associated with endurance athletes and it is often assumed that it doesn't give anything to the power/strength athlete. That is not true. EPO allows one to tolerate a greater overall volume of work and increases the rate of recovery. In performance athletics, drugs are mostly used to allow the athlete to train more often and with more volume.

EPO is also really fucking easy to get. I have some in my fridge and I've never taken any illegal drugs. I don't take it, but I'm just saying. XD

- Testosterone. Some synthetic steroids might be used far away from competition (if the athlete doesn't live in a country that conducts random testing) but testosterone is the most comonly used AAS to improve strength and power. It is much easier to pass the drug tests when using testosterone, especially since some natural compounds can decrease the testo/Epitesto ratio that is used to test for testostetone use. A lot of athletes can get away with 50mg of testosterone propionate or suspension every 3 days without testing positive... some races can even use much higher doses of testosterone than that because they lack the enzyme UGT2B17 which increases testosterone excretion in the urine. Approximately 60% of Asians have very low levels of this enzyme. More than 50% of the individuals having low levels of enzymes can take 300-400mg of testosterone per week and not test positive.


And doping tests are super easy to beat.

Many countries/federation do ''home tests'' for their athletes. So they know EXACTLY when they need to stop using XYZ substance and which one they can keep taking without testing positive. Each physiology is different so this gives top athletes (as it is very expensive) the insurance of being able to use without risking testing positive.

A lot of the people who design drug tests are hired by some countries/federation to explain how to beat the tests.

A urine test needs to know the exact chemical structure that they are testing for. It can either be a drug itself or it's metabolites. Any decent chemist can make slight modification to the structure of a drug to make it undetectable (e.g. the clear).

[Wayward Vagabond]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

ive been drinking 2 gallons of water a day

thats not bad right

This is actually a serious question since i know over hydration exists and i don't know what would be considered too much. online searches don't really yield any valuable results and i figured y'all would know

[phe0nixblade]

the literal only thing i drink anymore is water and i smoke lotsa weed so i need it for my drymouth and i've never ran into problems from drinking too much water unless i had a big meal beforehand

[i love you]

@WV: That should be fine. I would say that drinking 3 gallons or more is pushing it during non-workout days. On workout days, you could get away with it since you are burning more Calories and losing water during the process.