New Difficulty System Name Suggestions

[U.N. Owen]

Originally Posted by nois-or-e

I figured that once this system is finally in place, we'll be able to set each one to a range of difficulties in the 1-99 rankings.
(ex. Difficulty 70-75 AAA will award [oni])

I might be nitpicking, but shouldn't that be 76-81? (if we're going off of the current 1-99 system)

Or just make it 76-83 so that the requirement finally matches what pops up after obtaining the ST.

[Jerry DB]

Originally Posted by TheSaxRunner05

Ridiculous needs to be changed to Legendary; it's so much more epic sounding

I agree with this and pretty much it will look legit after that

[mrpreggers]

I know it's inconsequential, since anyone who can AAA past a certain difficulty can get Oni.. but why doesn't anything past 75 or w/e give Oni?

[popsicle_3000]

Originally Posted by TheSaxRunner05

Ridiculous needs to be changed to Legendary; it's so much more epic sounding

pretty please

[BahamutZER0]

Current list is fine with me, I'd rather expert/master/guru had descriptive names in line with the rest of the system but it's not a big deal and master/guru are traditional

[Silvuh]

We can't just keep the old difficulty names and leave it at that. The non-R2 engines display a difficulty title, so if a file becomes a new-15, it still needs to be labeled as either a VC or FMO, which doesn't solve any problems. Unless ...

01- Easiest
02- For Beginners
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Low Difficult
08- Difficult
09- Low Very Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Low Challenging
12- Challenging
13- High Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- High Very Challenging
16- Master
17- High Master
18- Guru
19- Legend
20- ???

You get rid of the idea of a "high VD" and "low VC/FMO/FGO". All low FMOs would be labeled as VCs, and so on. One difficulty name spanning more than one number should be fine (as it has been said quite a few times before), but two difficulty names in one number can't work. ... I know no one was suggesting the latter should happen; I guess I just feel like being contrary, because I still disagree with pretty much everything in the current list in the OP. It hasn't changed much since the last time I posted in here, so I'll be repeating myself for a while now ...

Originally Posted by i love you

I think i remember certain people in this thread saying that they would not like any difficulty names with the words "light, standard, and heavy" mainly because those are term names to determine the difficulty level of a file with multiple difficulties HOWEVER it seems like they are more people who would rather keep the old names rather then changing them.

This is still my first point, but I will reluctantly concede unless it magically stats getting more support ...

Anyway, next up ... Any difficulty name carried over from the old system should stay around the same area. It will take more time to get used to otherwise, but that's not the biggest issue: the current list would be discouraging to less-skilled players. Everything from Standard to Very Difficult suddenly became two to three difficulties harder. When they should be AAAing Very Difficult songs, all they'll be getting to is "Tricky". That hardly seems fair.

And finally ...

Originally Posted by nois-or-e

The opinions of all 3 Game Managers is that we keep them to varying levels of difficulty, straying away from utilising words that define the ability required. If FFR had an exp. point based levelling system, the titles that yourself and Subin have provided would be perfect. But in the way of accurately defining the level of difficulty of files, we don't think that they are very suitable.

Doesn't this mean words like Beginner, Expert, Master, and Guru won't be in the final difficulty list? I thought that's what this meant—because that's what I meant—but those terms are still in the list in the OP.

But my third point is that, whatever goes in these last five difficulties, it needs to be consistent. "Brutal" and "Ridiculous" aren't comparable, because they're on different scales: one is violent and one is crazy.

In the current list, just changing one of them to "Legend" would be even worse: "Legend" can't be easier than "Brutal" or "Ridiculous", because you'd think a Legend would be able to breeze through that stuff ... but "Legend" can't be above either of the other words, because a difficulty word would be between two rank words, and that's even more discernibly inconsistent.

So if Expert-Master-Guru is staying, change one of the final two difficulties to match the other like so:

18- Brutal
19- Ruthless

18- Ridiculous
19- Ludicrous

This consistency issue is also why I have a problem with the easiest difficulties. It's confusing having any difficulties between ones with "easy" in the root. I still believe "Easiest" has to be new-01 if it's included, so "Very Easy" and "Easy" would become 02 and 03 ... but words like "Novice" and "Beginner" don't feel right going after "Easy". So, in my previous post, I was intentionally avoiding "Easy", so I used "Novice" instead, but now that I'm ignoring rank words, well ... I'm taking the other option here.

01- Easiest
02- Very Easy
03- Easy
04- Light
05- Moderate
06- Standard
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Intense
14- Very Intense
...
20- ???

Paying slightly less attention to repeated initial letters, here are my updated suggestions for difficulties 15 through 19:

15- Painful
16- Brutal
17- Vicious
18- Ruthless
19- Sadistic

15- Crazy
16- Frantic
17- Ridiculous
18- Ludicrous
19- Psychotic


Bringing up one last point now:

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

With twenty different names for twenty different points, you're likely to run into similar difficulty arguments again.

The answer to this problem was already mentioned:

Originally Posted by ilikexd

There are already perceived "low", "mid", and "high" files of each difficulty, particularly the higher ones. This can be used as a guideline for the proposed 1-20 rating system, but I do not think it should take its own set of names.

But I'm going to disagree with the last clause of this post; I do think a new set of name would be an improvement. Just think about some of the new difficulties as housing the borderline files between the old difficulties. Is this file a 12 or a 14? If it's in between, it's a 13—don't think about the border between 13 and 14.

TL;DR.

P.S. This is me going nuts.

P.P.S. Thank you for putting the current system layered over the new system in the OP.

[i love you]

I must say Silvuh that you have really put in a lot of thought about this new difficultly system and it shows from your posts in this thread. I like the fact that you have carefully anaylzed this whole thread and explained your reasoning as to why you did this and that etc. After reading what you had to say about the consistency of the difficulty names, I think I will have to agree with you more now on your list (at least from 1-14 mainly because those 15-19 names you have created would go against the people who would like to have some of the old names back and I believe that words such as "expert" "master" and "guru" should be somewhere on that 15-19 list including two more difficulty names that would fit around those names.)

Which brings me to this quote from you:

Originally Posted by Silvuh

But my third point is that, whatever goes in these last five difficulties, it needs to be consistent. "Brutal" and "Ridiculous" aren't comparable, because they're on different scales: one is violent and one is crazy.

In the current list, just changing one of them to "Legend" would be even worse: "Legend" can't be easier than "Brutal" or "Ridiculous", because you'd think a Legend would be able to breeze through that stuff ... but "Legend" can't be above either of the other words, because a difficulty word would be between two rank words, and that's even more discernibly inconsistent.

So if Expert-Master-Guru is staying, change one of the final two difficulties to match the other like so:

18- Brutal
19- Ruthless

--or--

18- Ridiculous
19- Ludicrous

Very good points here. I think the best option is to keep the Expert-Master-Guru names and go with one of those two 18-19 names that you have came up with for consistency. Either majority of the community will go with one of those options or someone in this thread will come up with two better names for 18-19 that sounds consistent.

[igotrhythm]

If it comes down to that, I'm gonna go with the Brutal-Ruthless option.

[justin_ator]

01- Welcome
02- Training
03- Easy
04- Very Easy
05- Low D1
06- High D1
07- Low D2
08- High D2
09- Low D3
10- High D3
---
11- Low D4
12- Mid D4
13- High D4
14- Low D5
15- Mid D5
16- High D5
17- Low D6
18- Mid D6
19- High D6
20- Go Outside

Makes acronyms really easy :3

[Findarian]

Originally Posted by igotrhythm

If it comes down to that, I'm gonna go with the Brutal-Ruthless option.

+1 to that, I like it much more than the other suggestion. A poll should be started if that sounds like what we're going to do and leave it open until it's obvious one way or the other

[!!!!]

19. Da ****?
20. Cocaine's a hell of a drug.

[jimerax]

Originally Posted by Silvuh

Anyway, next up ... Any difficulty name carried over from the old system should stay around the same area. It will take more time to get used to otherwise, but that's not the biggest issue: the current list would be discouraging to less-skilled players. Everything from Standard to Very Difficult suddenly became two to three difficulties harder.

Considering we probably won't entirely replace current difficulty names, having compatibility with the old system is a nice thing (although I think we can shift the actual difficulty of a name for harder side by a bit, due to improvement of the engine and skill boost of people). This may start from the "Should 11 be Difficult or "Challenging?" discussion.

Originally Posted by Silvuh

But my third point is that, whatever goes in these last five difficulties, it needs to be consistent. "Brutal" and "Ridiculous" aren't comparable, because they're on different scales: one is violent and one is crazy.

In the current list, just changing one of them to "Legend" would be even worse: "Legend" can't be easier than "Brutal" or "Ridiculous", because you'd think a Legend would be able to breeze through that stuff ... but "Legend" can't be above either of the other words, because a difficulty word would be between two rank words, and that's even more discernibly inconsistent.

Yeah, "Legend", "Brutal" and "Ridiculous" are all in different lines and difficult to compare. "Legend" was just considered because it's in the same line with Master/Guru, but unfortunately we haven't found another suitable word in the same line. If we go with "violence" or "craziness" series, consistent word choice will be a good way like you suggested.

I personally prefer words that simply describe the degree of difficulties if we can find though, since these are official things.


ps difficulty words used in old DDR, as reference.

1 SIMPLE
2 MODERATE/AVERAGE
3 ORDINARY
4 SUPERIOR
5 MARVELOUS
6 GENUINE
7 PARAMOUNT/HERO
8 EXORBITANT
9 CATASTROPHIC

[wildfireskunk]

Originally Posted by jimerax

DDR's case as a reference for word choice.

1 SIMPLE
2 MODERATE/AVERAGE
3 ORDINARY
4 SUPERIOR
5 MARVELOUS
6 GENUINE
7 PARAMOUNT/HERO
8 EXORBITANT
9 CATASTROPHIC

Using 'very' to split them up, we could just adapt this!

1 SIMPLE
2 VERY SIMPLE
3 MODERATE
4 VERY MODERATE
5 ORDINARY
6 VERY ORDINARY
7 SUPERIOR
8 VERY SUPERIOR
9 MARVELLOUS
10 VERY MARVELLOUS
11 GENUINE
12 VERY GENUINE
13 PARAMOUNT
14 VERY PARAMOUNT
15 EXORBITANT
16 VERY EXORBITANT
17 CATASTROPHIC
18 VERY CATASTROPHIC
19 TEN FOOTER
20 TWENTY FOOTER!??!

You're all welcome.


...


Although srs, Silvuh's list is a good one I think. The first 14 are really good, although with the apparent difficulty of thinking of decent names for the last 5/6 perhaps it'd be worth inserting another 2 difficulties beforehand? Perhaps something like formidable, since most of the other good synonyms for difficult would make for repeating letters... I'm also a supporter of keeping the classic ones, Expert, Master and Guru. And Legendary is my favourite top one.

As such, starting with Silvuh's names I'd suggest...

01- Easiest
02- Very Easy
03- Easy
04- Light
05- Moderate
06- Standard
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Formidable
14- Very Formidable
15- Intense
16- Very Intense
17- Expert
18- Master
19- Guru
20- Legendary

Since y'know, you'd have to be pretty damned legendary to get any kind of score on a 20.

[Jake Ferguson]

Originally Posted by wildfireskunk

01- Easiest
02- Very Easy
03- Easy
04- Light
05- Moderate
06- Standard
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Formidable
14- Very Formidable
15- Intense
16- Very Intense
17- Expert
18- Master
19- Guru
20- Legendary

Since y'know, you'd have to be pretty damned legendary to get any kind of score on a 20.

Think this is the best list so far, and finally somebody thinks formidable is good word too :-P

[Herogashix]

Why not just 3 difficulties?

Easy
Hard
Dum

[top]

Originally Posted by Herogashix

Easy
Hard
Dum

qft

[qqwref]

And now, for something pretty similar.

01- Easiest
02- For Beginners
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Difficult (D)
08- Difficult+ (D+)
09- Very Difficult (VD)
10- Very Difficult+ (VD+)
11- Challenging (C)
12- Challenging+ (C+)
13- Very Challenging (VC)
14- Very Challenging+ (VC+)
15- For Masters Only (FMO)
16- For Masters Only+ (FMO+)
17- For Gurus Only (FGO)
18- For Gurus Only+ (FGO+)
19- Brutal
20- Insane

[stavie33]

Originally Posted by qqwref

And now, for something pretty similar.

01- Easiest
02- For Beginners
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Difficult (D)
08- Difficult+ (D+)
09- Very Difficult (VD)
10- Very Difficult+ (VD+)
11- Challenging (C)
12- Challenging+ (C+)
13- Very Challenging (VC)
14- Very Challenging+ (VC+)
15- For Masters Only (FMO)
16- For Masters Only+ (FMO+)
17- For Gurus Only (FGO)
18- For Gurus Only+ (FGO+)
19- Brutal
20- Insane

I actually like this the most lol

[DossarLX ODI]

In agreement with qqwref's list. It makes the most sense.

[Zakvvv666]

Will certainly make acronyms easier to move to instead of a whole set of other names.