What, if any, measurements determine maturity, and what entails from its measurement?

[Arch0wl]

A lot of policy decisions, such as drinking laws or age of consent laws, are made at least partially on the basis that someone is less mature or more mature, or acts older according to some standard of how older people should act. But maturity isn't really demonstrated here, so much as assumed. It's assumed that when you get older, you mature -- whatever this means.

So, one: how would you measure this?

Two: what are the implications of this if you could?

Two is more of a problem than you think, since this is basically the entire basis for age of consent laws. If you can really measure the kind of maturity necessary to have sex and actually put restrictions on this basis into practice, then some people would be really advanced for their age and able to consent under your definition, and some people would be so developmentally stilted that they could never have sex.

I don't think that maturity is a well-defined concept for this reason -- an example of well-defined concepts would be Big Five personality traits. Maturity is kept vague because much of society has an interest in keeping it vague, in other words.

But hey, if you disagree, let me know why. If it has been defined in measurable and reliable terms somewhere, I'd like to know about this.

[dAnceguy117]

Really good topic.

I'm thinking these laws use age as a basis for maturity because it's easy to measure. You turn 21, you show your birth certificate once, and you get your vertical license. Done. Going to a state-run office and taking a "maturity test" would be far, far more complicated. There are definitely some people who are more mature than the average person at that given age, and there are some people who are behind. As a quick, blanket estimation, I think "you become more mature as you get older" holds true enough to be practical.

Measuring maturity... I think it would be as difficult as it sounds. A testee can't just fill out a scantron and answer questions about worldviews. True maturity can be consistently observed in one's behavior. Granted, social and cultural norms would come into play there, too. It all seems to muddled for me to wrap my brain around, which supports your argument that the concept isn't well-defined.

The implications of measuring maturity and replacing age-based laws with maturity-based ones are intriguing. The consent laws you mentioned are a perfect example. Having "advanced" preteens running around banging each other seems off, biologically. Far more troubling to me is the opposite scenario, though. To declare that certain of-age people aren't qualified to give consent and prohibit them from having sex sounds too much like an attempt to create a master race. Yikes.

I think of maturity as a combination of awareness and restraint. Most small children see what's in front of them and comprehend things at a basic level. Getting a child to be patient or understand the long-term ramifications of an action can be impossible. Adults (or, more specifically, mature people) have more foresight. Adults make decisions with reasonable predictions of what the results will be.

I just made that definition of "maturity" up, though.

Request for the next poster: look up an official definition of this term, and shed some light if possible.

[Frank Munoz]

Apparently, after little research, the meaning behind what is mature is to be "perfect" in condition.
As in a fruit being ripe or, in a financial point of view, when one's bills are ultimately due.

Edit:also, going by the definition, I would say maturity is defined by time.
Since it takes time for an apple to be perfectly sweet,
and also a set time to clear your dues.

Edit Edit:Imo I think our species is overlooking the true meaning of what it means to be mature.
I think being "mature" is just when are bodies have fully developed.

[Riotpolice]

Although age may be a number, don't act like a 6 year old when you're 19. You should just act like you are an adult if you're 19+. I think that's what maturity is based upon...

Edit: I think acting older than your age might be along the lines of being "mature"

[Wayward Vagabond]

Acting an age doesn't and shouldn't define maturity though.

[Xiz]

I matured when I found myself paying my own bills, taxes, groceries and now college tuition. Being able to survive on your own.

(Edit: However, I still find poop jokes funny so who knows)

[Frank Munoz]

Originally Posted by Frank Munoz

Edit Edit:Imo I think our species is overlooking the true meaning of what it means to be mature.
I think being "mature" is just when are bodies have fully developed.

posting this again cause i think this is basically what maturity is.

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

Acting an age doesn't and shouldn't define maturity though.

Would you call a 16-year-old who supports parents & family by working as many hours as is legal while still attending school less mature than a 24-year-old who has unprotected sex with strangers and spends all other time watching television?

I would argue that physiological maturity is completely different from mental maturity.

[Reincarnate]

Age is just a heuristic/proxy at the end of the day. A measure of reasoned correlation based on a collection of judgments/precedents/whatever/etc.

I mean, I think maturity is a pretty ambiguous term. To me, maturity implies that something has progressed to some state of fruition. One's skills can mature: You start out as a neophyte at a particular hobby and eventually become sufficiently competent. Maybe you're socially immature -- saying dumb things when you're young and eventually learning how to maintain composure and acquire the means to conduct yourself more rationally.

Of course, these are still pretty vague constructs. What's considered sufficient? Ultimately we change around laws and shit because we'd like to maximize everyone's utility, and so what's sufficient is pretty hard to measure. It's something I think you have to adjust until things improve in the relevant areas. For instance, maybe deaths by drunk drivers would decrease if you lowered the drinking age and improved education, thereby removing the "forbidden fruit" aspect and empowering people with knowledge of responsible use. As a result, you may end up with a more "mature" teenage population when it comes to alcohol even though the age limit is lower. Other things would need to change too, but I'm just trying to illustrate a general point there.

To me, maturity also implies a sort of forethought and the ability to see the consequences of one's actions. It implies an awareness of details -- a greater complexity. Instead of just blurting out whatever you think is funny, maybe you take a moment to think before you speak, assess your audience, determine if the setting is appropriate, whatever. Instead of blowing your paycheck on useless crap, maybe you think ahead, save it instead, and get yourself to a more stable place financially. Lots of possible examples.

I'm convinced that age is only a reasonable proxy in a small, finite number of situations. One of the big eye-openers I've encountered, growing up, is that so many adults have no fucking idea what they're doing (despite what I may have thought of them as a child). Many people make very immature and irresponsible decisions in a variety of situations. If the law could perfectly discriminate, some people could handle certain responsibilities at a very young age, while others would never acquire such rights until the day they die.

So age-of-consent laws are pretty much arbitrary. At some point a bunch of people figured that going below that figure was too low, or going above that limit too much was too high, etc. That's about it. The rational and empirical underpinnings evolve over time but meh.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

Would you call a 16-year-old who supports parents & family by working as many hours as is legal while still attending school less mature than a 24-year-old who has unprotected sex with strangers and spends all other time watching television?

I would argue that physiological maturity is completely different from mental maturity.

See now I wouldn't call that acting mature and immature I would call that -being- mature and immature.

[Arch0wl]

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

Would you call a 16-year-old who supports parents & family by working as many hours as is legal while still attending school less mature than a 24-year-old who has unprotected sex with strangers and spends all other time watching television?

I would argue that physiological maturity is completely different from mental maturity.

I think that this should be something like "financial maturity", since "mental maturity" is completely different from your ability to support yourself. Lots of people work very long hours because work provides you an avenue to avoid more stressful thoughts.

[popsicle_3000]

those laws come about from age because of developmental changes that happen to adolescents. Final frontal cortex development doesn't happen until late teens, and until then, there are some physical deficits in inhibition, association, etc... I see maturity as more a judge of character, where your upbringing, life experience and so on play a role. I dont think maturity should be judged. Adult laws come into effect at a certain age because at that stage you have the cognitive ability to perform. Whether you do or not comes from your maturity but that's your choice.

That said, in medicine, treating and caring for adolescents becomes a bit fuzzy. Technically until they are 18, they need parental consent for things. However, doctors can judge an adolescent's competence, and if deem sufficient to understand the choices before them and their consequences, doctors don't need to seek permission from guardians (below 14yoa or so, it doesn't count anymore). Best example is the 15yo girl coming to her GP for the pill.

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by popsicle_3000

Adult laws come into effect at a certain age because at that stage you have the cognitive ability to perform. Whether you do or not comes from your maturity but that's your choice.

That's a really clear explanation. Well said.

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

I think that this should be something like "financial maturity", since "mental maturity" is completely different from your ability to support yourself. Lots of people work very long hours because work provides you an avenue to avoid more stressful thoughts.

Good point. I should have chosen a better example. I meant to underscore the idea that the kid who's working could easily be doing something less productive, as most people would be doing at that age. Forgoing short-term excitement for long-term sustainability shows maturity.

[SKG_Scintill]

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

"mental maturity" is completely different from your ability to support yourself.

It's actually the same. Supporting yourself is more than just financially.

[DossarLX ODI]

The law gives a general implication that maturity is a measure of responsibility.

Age is not exactly a reliable measure of maturity because everyone comes from different backgrounds. Someone that's 13 years old can know how to change flat tires, etc. while I don't and I'm 19 years old. What matters more is exposure to certain knowledge and experience.

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

One of the big eye-openers I've encountered, growing up, is that so many adults have no fucking idea what they're doing (despite what I may have thought of them as a child). Many people make very immature and irresponsible decisions in a variety of situations.

I don't even need to venture out of my family for this one. My dad yells in an attempt to gain power over a discussion and has temper issues. He interrupts to break thoughts and make someone look stupid when they're trying to explain something to him. He's also had some very stupid financial decisions that he'd never admit to being stupid.

In this sense, immaturity could mean a lack of diplomacy and a lack of basic respect for others. Too much selfishness and ego can get in the way of rationale. A matured person, going to Frank Munoz, is someone that's physically matured and is assumed to have developed enough cognitive ability to perform more complex tasks. Someone who is letting their rationale get overpowered by their own ego, anger, etc. can be said to be immature.

There are many older people who are alcoholics that are legally allowed to drink, but I still have to wait two more years to legally drink. This tells me that maturity definitely has to do with responsibility and being able to reason to a certain degree.