I don't want to live on this planet anymore

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

This, as far as I can tell, is a pretty accurate approximation of the situation. The sad truth though, is that said retards are within their rights to protest even if they're wrong.

The crux of the issue for me is that I don't think if a civilian assaulted someone on video that, "Well, occasionally I screw up and blind some people with pepper spray, sorry about that" would hold up very well in court. And I don't think it should work for the police either, considering they're trained to be professional about their job and not lose their cool in these kinds of circumstances.

While I'd agree, I think the important point to make is that it needs to be a *peaceful* protest.

While most of the protestors are peaceful, a great deal of them aren't even really there for any specific reason other than some sort of nebulous "Man, **** Wall Street!" sentiment. There's a huge difference between peacefully protesting in the name of something and just showing up to be an asshole. It's not like the police can stop every single person and be like "Hey, wait, before I let you through, are you going to go block traffic? No? Alright, you're free to go!" After a certain point, the crowd can't be trusted because a few douchebags ruin it for everyone else, so the police have to start blocking things off.

Of course, batshit protestors look at this as an invitation to become armchair lawyers: "Hey! Hey man, this is public property man! I have a right to be here! I have a right to be here! You can't block me from going through! Everyone ****ing listen to me! Hey! Hey! Hey! **** you! **** you man! ****ing Wall Street, man! You're protecting the enemy, man! I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you! Hey! Hey! Whoa! WHOA! WHOAAAA! POLICE BRUTALITY OMG! *SCREAM* AHHHH POLICE BRUTALITY! YOU GET THAT ON TAPE MAN?! **** THE SYSTEM!"

I mean seriously, this sort of shit is to be expected. When you're dealing with people like this for *hours*, emotions are going to fly. Yes, I agree it's a policeman's job to keep cool, but it's also his job to keep the peace and make sure shit doesn't spiral out of control, which can be really hard to do when you've got some really persistent, angry assholes in your face who are causing a massive glut in areas that are normally insanely busy during the day to begin with.

Like, people are pissed over the bailouts, but they don't realize that much of it has already been paid back. Bailout money doesn't go to the execs -- it goes into the company to keep it from going bankrupt. Had the banks gone under, we'd all be ****ed. Something like $580 billion was disbursed in the bailout (including bailout money for FM/FM), and over half of it was paid back by the hundreds banks that received money not long after the bailouts were disbursed to begin with. The top 30 banks received 90% of the total bailout money, and most of it has been returned with interest -- the only nasty one is FM/FM (20% of the bailout to the top 30 alone, which we're not likely to see again). Even so, the outstanding $200-something billion is nothing compared to our multi-trillion dollar deficit.

I think people have a right to be angry, but a protest is not how you solve the nation's problems. If we want a better government that has better regulations for big business, we need to stop voting idiots into power.

America, while not too big to fail, is not likely to fail unless we do something really stupid, like refuse to raise the debt ceiling. Very few politicians are rational and forward-thinking, which worries me as a rational forward-thinking person. Problem is, it's the irrational short-sighted majority that keeps electing them into office.

[ELRayford]

"we're all coming under one cause, even though we have our different initiatives."

troll postan

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by Nyokou

oh man this is so much more terrible than that syrian kid who was tortured and murdered by his own government

im soooooooooooooo shocked

I don't live in Syria.

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

I don't live in Syria.

Ah of course. Nothing outside of the united states is relevant in any way.

[~kitty~]

Originally Posted by Izzy

Ah of course. Nothing outside of the united states is relevant in any way.

Of course, that's called being off topic.

[Tyson ultima]

Funny how my first thought was Eduardo Salazar making this thread haha

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

While I'd agree, I think the important point to make is that it needs to be a *peaceful* protest.

While most of the protestors are peaceful, a great deal of them aren't even really there for any specific reason other than some sort of nebulous "Man, **** Wall Street!" sentiment. There's a huge difference between peacefully protesting in the name of something and just showing up to be an asshole. It's not like the police can stop every single person and be like "Hey, wait, before I let you through, are you going to go block traffic? No? Alright, you're free to go!" After a certain point, the crowd can't be trusted because a few douchebags ruin it for everyone else, so the police have to start blocking things off.

Of course, batshit protestors look at this as an invitation to become armchair lawyers: "Hey! Hey man, this is public property man! I have a right to be here! I have a right to be here! You can't block me from going through! Everyone ****ing listen to me! Hey! Hey! Hey! **** you! **** you man! ****ing Wall Street, man! You're protecting the enemy, man! I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you! Hey! Hey! Whoa! WHOA! WHOAAAA! POLICE BRUTALITY OMG! *SCREAM* AHHHH POLICE BRUTALITY! YOU GET THAT ON TAPE MAN?! **** THE SYSTEM!"

I mean seriously, this sort of shit is to be expected. When you're dealing with people like this for *hours*, emotions are going to fly. Yes, I agree it's a policeman's job to keep cool, but it's also his job to keep the peace and make sure shit doesn't spiral out of control, which can be really hard to do when you've got some really persistent, angry assholes in your face who are causing a massive glut in areas that are normally insanely busy during the day to begin with.

Like, people are pissed over the bailouts, but they don't realize that much of it has already been paid back. Bailout money doesn't go to the execs -- it goes into the company to keep it from going bankrupt. Had the banks gone under, we'd all be ****ed. Something like $580 billion was disbursed in the bailout (including bailout money for FM/FM), and over half of it was paid back by the hundreds banks that received money not long after the bailouts were disbursed to begin with. The top 30 banks received 90% of the total bailout money, and most of it has been returned with interest -- the only nasty one is FM/FM (20% of the bailout to the top 30 alone, which we're not likely to see again). Even so, the outstanding $200-something billion is nothing compared to our multi-trillion dollar deficit.

I think people have a right to be angry, but a protest is not how you solve the nation's problems. If we want a better government that has better regulations for big business, we need to stop voting idiots into power.

America, while not too big to fail, is not likely to fail unless we do something really stupid, like refuse to raise the debt ceiling. Very few politicians are rational and forward-thinking, which worries me as a rational forward-thinking person. Problem is, it's the irrational short-sighted majority that keeps electing them into office.

I guess we just have different expectations of the police- I've always thought that in any situation a policeman should be able to keep his wits about him. It's his job.
I guess I get this perspective because my brother was an officer for a while. And any time he was talking about a particularly shitty case he had to deal with he always talked about how hard it was to keep his cool, but he would mention how during training they CONSTANTLY drilled the fact he had to remain civil, and he would just have to mentally endure. Seeing what my brother went through (I'd like to think he was a "good cop") to stay calm in situations not unlike this protest makes me disappointed to see a high ranking officer lose his shit like we can see clearly in this video. Like I said, just different expectations- I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said.

And Crashfan3's post on the previous page was really well thought out too.

Also I'm still amused by people who keep citing the "someone somewhere has it worse" argument, as if that magically makes what happened here acceptable.

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by Izzy

Ah of course. Nothing outside of the united states is relevant in any way.

I acknowledge that worse shit is happening elsewhere, but that's not what this thread is about.

[Snowcrafta]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

I guess we just have different expectations of the police- I've always thought that in any situation a policeman should be able to keep his wits about him. It's his job.

People snap at their jobs. People can only take so much before they have to release, and given that they're NYPD, they probaly have to deal with loads more than most other officers in the US.

I know in healthcare, when people get really agitated with patints, they start doing stuff to them, be it ignoring, delivering meds later, or just doing a poor job intentinally because they don't lie the patient.

I've done it, and I'm sure most everyone else has acted inappropriately at their job before from stress and agitation.

[~kitty~]

Originally Posted by Snowcrafta

People snap at their jobs. People can only take so much before they have to release, and given that they're NYPD, they probaly have to deal with loads more than most other officers in the US.

I know in healthcare, when people get really agitated with patints, they start doing stuff to them, be it ignoring, delivering meds later, or just doing a poor job intentinally because they don't lie the patient.

I've done it, and I'm sure most everyone else has acted inappropriately at their job before from stress and agitation.

Even so, does that make it acceptable? If you act inappropriately at your job, chances are you will get punished or face some sort of consequence.

[robertsona]

yeah the whole occupy wall street thing was/is (i guess) a huge piece of "protest" exhibitionism that seems unlikely to spawn actual social progress and more seems like a grab for media attention but that's not really the issue here, it's more the police brutality and honestly i didn't even watch the video because i don't like watching that stuff but police brutality is absolutely unacceptable in all cases, doubly so because they're the ****ing police. i don't care if the protesters are really annoying and don't seem to know anything about the current economic situation and how to solve it, that doesn't excuse any instances of unprovoked violence on the part of the police force

and i don't even want to respond to the almost unbelievably daft morally relativistic defenses being brought up here. really? "it could be worse"? that's how logic works? nor the equally idiotic "everyone gets mad while doing their job" i mean is that even what i don't what no stop

p.s.--

Originally Posted by Snowcrafta

I know in healthcare, when people get really agitated with patints, they start doing stuff to them, be it ignoring, delivering meds later, or just doing a poor job intentinally because they don't lie the patient.

i hope you realize this is absolutely ****ing despicable and inexcusable

[Snowcrafta]

Originally Posted by robertsona

p.s.--

i hope you realize this is absolutely ****ing despicable and inexcusable

Healthcare works on a balance. The nicer you are to the employee, the nicer they are to you. If you just bitch, yell, and fight with us all the tme, you bet we're going to take our time or "get caught in something else".

Healthcare is no different than any other field

[robertsona]

okay yes i get the essential balance between the actions and behaviors of a customer/provider and of course all customers should be nice to those whom they expect service from but "doing a poor job intentinally [sic] because they don't lie [sic] the patient" (these are your words) is completely ridiculous and reckless behavior especially if you are in the field of healthcare and people's good health or lives literally depend on your stupid selfish bitch fits

this isn't idealism, it's just stopping to think about the consequences of your actions for a nanosecond

same goes with the police

[Snowcrafta]

Last I checked a poorly put on diaper isn't life threatening, but what do I know

[A2P]

Terrible. Absolutely disgusting.

I hope those officers get their pensions revoked.

EDIT: Snowcrafta you're not justifying police brutality because of a high-stress enviornment, right? My job's pretty high stress too...I don't have the need to go out and hurt people because of it.

Bitch on a forum, smoke a cig...those are better ways of handling stress than hurting other people for no reason at all.

[vantilburg]

[Snowcrafta]

Originally Posted by A2P

EDIT: Snowcrafta you're not justifying police brutality because of a high-stress enviornment, right?

Officer or not, if someone's pissed off, especially at you, it's usually a good idea not to keep prodding. Logic should tell you when you've gone too far (apperently warnings aren't enough), and if you take a beating for it, maybe it wont happen next time. It's horribly illegal, but you have to be a real big douche to get police brutalized.

Worst part is that I'm sure that he's eating up all the press coverage and using it to try to sway opinion saying that NYPD is full of horrible people.

[~kitty~]

Originally Posted by Snowcrafta

Last I checked a poorly put on diaper isn't life threatening, but what do I know

Police macing isn't equivalent to putting on a diaper poorly the last time I checked, but what do I know

[Artic_counter]

Originally Posted by Snowcrafta

If you just bitch, yell, and fight with us all the tme, you bet we're going to take our time or "get caught in something else".

Healthcare is no different than any other field

What a great dad you would make.

On topic :

Like a lot of people said; Just because someone as it worse doesn't make the thing in question more acceptable. Also, while I do agree about what Rubix said on the protest in itself, I do not think stress and emotions is enough of a reason to brutalize people.

[TheNoSoMan]

Because all the people here who posted in this thread can post much better opinions than I ever can, I'm just gonna post a video that the title of the thread reminded me of.