TWG CV Postgame

[mellonxcollie]

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

aww cmon. yes that was rough, but no that should not take credit away from the winners of this game. that was one day. humans had 4 other days to get things right.

ehh, I didn't mean it that way! V did play a great game. I just think that some hosting decisions really fucked the humans over, and I feel bad for the new players who didn't really get to play

[dAnceguy117]

VT is for sure the role I'm most comfortable with at this point. time will tell what happens from here haha.

my reads happened to be good this game. one thing I learned and am honestly excited by is how little that can matter at times.

as soon as I put my vote back on manti in day 3, I knew I was probably fucked. you guys had all of the chess pieces in place. gg.

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

ehh, I didn't mean it that way! V did play a great game. I just think that some hosting decisions really fucked the humans over, and I feel bad for the new players who didn't really get to play

true that true that. more games soon, and quicker ones, by the looks of it!

[yo man im awesome]

Wolves are where it's at role-wise for me

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

Everyone is giving V a pat on the back but what really let the wolves win was this awful, awful hosting

V played a GREAT game, and although the wolves overall played a fucking awful game, the humans played an even worse one. Irregardless of hosting, there were rampant BAD human gambits and lies and stupid choices and awful lynches. We only nailed one wolf, and if not for the masterful wolf powers of V, I don't think I could have encouraged everyone else to take him down. Even with an ideal host who made ideal choices, our team still would have lost. We didn't stand a chance with such bad plays going around, and with our only wolf getting downed thanks to the push of ANOTHER wolf.

Incidentally, I'd like to once again argue for Lynch All Liars. We all need to adopt it so that stupid shit like jrodd and BDN pulled last game is not done in the future. Lying CANNOT be abided, because when it is, you open the door for reds to lie however they want without fear of repercussions. If a person wants to lie in this game, they need to understand that they might get lynched for it. Jrodd and BDN had no fear of this. This is wrong.

Furthermore, I'd like to propose this "ecco gambit". Think of it as a corollary to lynch-all-liars: lynch-all-lurkers. Lurking should not be abided either. If we lynch all of the lurkers and we end up losing the game because we lynched all of our greens without taking out the wolves too, then we weren't going to win the game anyway because those incompetent greens weren't going to win the game for us anyway.

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

afrobean was starting to look down the right avenues.

When I died, my top suspects were the remaining wolves... except with Tokzic instead of you. When I got paired with him, I was like "Wow, I'm glad I'm supposed to betray him, because I don't want to trust him." But that dude didn't follow the dilemma plan, and he chose to distrust me. Me! How dare he?! I was like "Oh, he is DEFINITELY a wolf now!" And then I died and I was like "Yep, I saw that coming." But I guess I was wrong. Haha.

[Guest15937]

I honestly expected to open the thread like 5 minutes after that last day started and see my name bolded by every single player, including my fellow wolves. Why you guys didn't lynch me on that day, I have no idea.

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

Ok Fojar, what the hell dude? Why would you even think sending a PM like that to someone who is playing their first game is a good idea? That is confusing for me and I know what all of those words mean. Psychoangel, I agree that this was BS. Everyone is giving V a pat on the back but what really let the wolves win was this awful, awful hosting

the mechanic was: do the dilemma, depending on the dilemma you get a power.

i rolled dice for all powers, and that was what she got. would it have been better if this power had gone to someone like V or danceguy? yeah probably. but that's not how it worked out.

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by Guest15937

I honestly expected to open the thread like 5 minutes after that last day started and see my name bolded by every single player, including my fellow wolves. Why you guys didn't lynch me on that day, I have no idea.

humans (in general, not only the game we just played) are fickle. never ever give up.

you're also never as obvious as you think you are. you know you're a wolf. humans do not.

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Incidentally, I'd like to once again argue for Lynch All Liars. We all need to adopt it so that stupid shit like jrodd and BDN pulled last game is not done in the future. Lying CANNOT be abided, because when it is, you open the door for reds to lie however they want without fear of repercussions. If a person wants to lie in this game, they need to understand that they might get lynched for it. Jrodd and BDN had no fear of this. This is wrong.

I like this policy in theory, but... I want to win *now*. we're not playing at a site dedicated to TWG where games are guaranteed to keep being played for years. this run we've had for a full year now could end at any time. not really up to throwing games to force a certain meta when the next game could potentially be the last one.

edit: I also don't know if forcing a certain meta strategy is as possible as you think it is. on a site like MafiaScum with tons of registered users, players must fit the mold in order to survive. no one is going to listen to what player #482639 has to say about how they lied because they just felt like it. this isn't MafiaScum. we don't have a huge roster of faceless players; we have recurring personalities.

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Furthermore, I'd like to propose this "ecco gambit". Think of it as a corollary to lynch-all-liars: lynch-all-lurkers. Lurking should not be abided either. If we lynch all of the lurkers and we end up losing the game because we lynched all of our greens without taking out the wolves too, then we weren't going to win the game anyway because those incompetent greens weren't going to win the game for us anyway.

looking at the link, I would rather flip the order and lynch a lurker before a shitposter lol

edit: this may or may not be because I fit the criteria for the latter

[Charu]

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

I would rather flip the order and lynch a lurker before a shitposter lol

edit: this may or may not be because I fit the criteria for the latter

Y'know, what counts as a "shitpost" here anyways? Because if it's what I think it is................

[mellonxcollie]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

the mechanic was: do the dilemma, depending on the dilemma you get a power.

i rolled dice for all powers, and that was what she got. would it have been better if this power had gone to someone like V or danceguy? yeah probably. but that's not how it worked out.

I understand that but I think that's when the host needs to step in and make an executive decision. Sure it's not actually totally random, but if you know something is going to be an issue you need to just veto it. I would've just re-rolled for her power, or randomly swapped it with someone else's. I mean I understand where you are coming from too and if it were an average player making an error I wouldn't have this complaint, but I think we all need to be more considerate of newer players than we are being right now.

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Lurking should not be abided either. If we lynch all of the lurkers and we end up losing the game because we lynched all of our greens without taking out the wolves too, then we weren't going to win the game anyway because those incompetent greens weren't going to win the game for us anyway.

This is something else I think the host should take responsibility for. We have replacement lists for a reason and if someone is not even posting, they need to be replaced by the host, not lynched. For lurkers who are sparsely posting this is a good idea. But in the previous game we had several players who just didn't post AT ALL for phases at a time who should have been replaced.

[psychoangel691]

I still don't see how gambling for a power is a power. Is this something that's normal to these games?

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

I understand that but I think that's when the host needs to step in and make an executive decision. Sure it's not actually totally random, but if you know something is going to be an issue you need to just veto it. I would've just re-rolled for her power, or randomly swapped it with someone else's. I mean I understand where you are coming from too and if it were an average player making an error I wouldn't have this complaint, but I think we all need to be more considerate of newer players than we are being right now.

I can't say I agree. I don't think the host should ever step in and alter a game's random events behind the scenes.

that power issue could have been made better imo by:
1) having "night 2 power" in the PM subject
2) explicitly stating that the day would end with a bookie kill

new players and veterans alike all learn from making mistakes. we can be more considerate of newer players by not getting so upset when mistakes happen, because they will always happen. showing frustration in the thread is one thing (especially because wolves must be given room to fake that type of reaction as well). just gotta be friendly when all is said and done. that's my take on it.




edit:

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

I still don't see how gambling for a power is a power. Is this something that's normal to these games?

nah, not even close to normal. it may never come up again xD

[Afrobean]

oh by the way

Who was the one who sent me that seer PM?

[j-rodd123]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

V played a GREAT game, and although the wolves overall played a fucking awful game, the humans played an even worse one. Irregardless of hosting, there were rampant BAD human gambits and lies and stupid choices and awful lynches. We only nailed one wolf, and if not for the masterful wolf powers of V, I don't think I could have encouraged everyone else to take him down. Even with an ideal host who made ideal choices, our team still would have lost. We didn't stand a chance with such bad plays going around, and with our only wolf getting downed thanks to the push of ANOTHER wolf.

Incidentally, I'd like to once again argue for Lynch All Liars. We all need to adopt it so that stupid shit like jrodd and BDN pulled last game is not done in the future. Lying CANNOT be abided, because when it is, you open the door for reds to lie however they want without fear of repercussions. If a person wants to lie in this game, they need to understand that they might get lynched for it. Jrodd and BDN had no fear of this. This is wrong.

Furthermore, I'd like to propose this "ecco gambit". Think of it as a corollary to lynch-all-liars: lynch-all-lurkers. Lurking should not be abided either. If we lynch all of the lurkers and we end up losing the game because we lynched all of our greens without taking out the wolves too, then we weren't going to win the game anyway because those incompetent greens weren't going to win the game for us anyway.


When I died, my top suspects were the remaining wolves... except with Tokzic instead of you. When I got paired with him, I was like "Wow, I'm glad I'm supposed to betray him, because I don't want to trust him." But that dude didn't follow the dilemma plan, and he chose to distrust me. Me! How dare he?! I was like "Oh, he is DEFINITELY a wolf now!" And then I died and I was like "Yep, I saw that coming." But I guess I was wrong. Haha.

lmfao honestly dude you are awful at this game. lynch all liars is fine for vanilla ass games, but when it's the prisoner's dilemma and a common strategy that was even linked in the pregame thread as being brilliant was lying about what youll pick you gotta adapt.

afro you literally didn't adjust your reads, ur play was far stupider than me trying to get more power. the game isn't that hard you just have to not be some braindead autistic no life who is capable of making reads. your thinking was so level 0 and you just circlejerked a mafia scum mantra. come play on the poker forums we will stomp the shit out of you.

all in all, afro you sucked this game lmao like legit you wasted all your time mouthbreathing ur huge responses which were level 0 thinking posts that id expect over on ffya. playing twg you should be able to adjust, maybe if you learn this skill you can be decent but until then shut the fuck up because no one thinks ur decent

[j-rodd123]

and I sent the seer PM because it was the only way to get a retarded villager to stop playing bad

[Afrobean]

lol

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

I understand that but I think that's when the host needs to step in and make an executive decision. Sure it's not actually totally random, but if you know something is going to be an issue you need to just veto it. I would've just re-rolled for her power, or randomly swapped it with someone else's. I mean I understand where you are coming from too and if it were an average player making an error I wouldn't have this complaint, but I think we all need to be more considerate of newer players than we are being right now.

i had no idea it would be a problem. the mechanic was pretty straight forward, and when she responded with her guess it seemed like she understood how the power worked, but i had no way of knowing that she didnt understand that it was her power until she said so in thread, and by that point it was too late to do anything.

This is something else I think the host should take responsibility for. We have replacement lists for a reason and if someone is not even posting, they need to be replaced by the host, not lynched. For lurkers who are sparsely posting this is a good idea. But in the previous game we had several players who just didn't post AT ALL for phases at a time who should have been replaced.

which is why i modkilled them....

[FoJaR]

i mean i think afro knows that lynch all liars is not a good approach here for the human team, but likes it because it is an easy way to deal with humans when he's a wolf.

[FoJaR]

also, for what it's worth i talked about the gambling mechanic with fiction and he liked it, but yeah it's pretty much only a viable power in a game like this one, where people earn powers from day to day.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

i mean i think afro knows that lynch all liars is not a good approach here for the human team, but likes it because it is an easy way to deal with humans when he's a wolf.

The only time I won't argue in favor of lynch-all-liars is when I have extreme confidence that lynching the liar would be bad for the town. For example, I dropped any effort to lynch BDN when I had confidence in his alignment, but that level of confidence usually won't be afforded to a liar.

I don't regret killing jrodd one bit, even knowing now that he was technically on the same team as me. I certainly hope that the folks who voted to lynch him would feel likewise. It was more than justified.

[Brilliant Dynamite Neon]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

I don't regret killing jrodd one bit, even knowing now that he was technically on the same team as me. I certainly hope that the folks who voted to lynch him would feel likewise. It was more than justified.

Exactly. As stupid as my move was, it had at least a potential pro-town application (catching who I thought was a wolf) while j-rodd's play was just mindgames for the sake of it. Tokzic summed it up pretty well.

I've been mulling it over and while I definitely am welcoming of a shift towards intolerance of blatant lies and mindgames, I don't think the Pinocchio Problem ("Why should I be lynched for having a long nose if I'm using it to trip wolves?") has an easy answer. If you ask me, Lynch All Lurkers/Reverse Ecco Gambit is much more relevant in the current meta. I'll see how this works out when I play again, hopefully with my wits better about me.

j-rodd, those last few posts better have been made while drunk or I'll be severely disappointed.