TWG Turbo 35: A Small Gathering [GAME THREAD]

[Haze with a Z]

Originally Posted by leetic

Zenith explicitly disagreed with the idea that my posts were contradictory though

But they were still fighting against them

[Haze with a Z]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Before I dissect Leetic's case against me I'll comment on these little posts



I wouldn't call what I presented a tunnel. I presented my case, logic, and stance against you. I never appealed to the masses about voting you except for explicitly in my case against you that I told people that I think you flew very UTR to the point nobody ever gave you a red lean because you weren't even on the radar before I said something, and then you got into your back and forth with Leetic. Raeko was the only one who commented on what I had to say about it, and she was openly willing to look into you more.

Frankly, I wanted to still vote you instead of either wagon and I chose Raeko. MML/Leetic/Myself was the wagon on her, Haze/Raeko were the votes against Leetic, and I blindly chose to follow MMLs vote (being vocal about intention to lynch me the entire phase to CFD on Raeko right at the end was a catch in my eye).



See above. Raeko never explicitly did something that I could latch onto for a stronger town read, but I'll admit my town read was purely based on meta and experience with playing with her, she was human and it showed. MML was my only surefire town read.

I think that it would have been possible to get lar to vote me tbh if you had tried. I don’t think their vote was very interesting, it seems you didn’t read what they had said about wanting to vote anyone to save leetic, which I’d argue is the main reason they voted raeko.

[Haze with a Z]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Impatience is a wolf tell in f3, just sayin'

Town knows they benefit from using all the time, especially in final.

lol that would mean I’m a wolf in every speed game I play ever

[leetic]

Originally Posted by Haze with a Z

But they were still fighting against them

I'm not sure how much "fighting" they were doing when they acquiesced to almost every point I made with them. They were the one saying how not killing roundbox was the optimal option (but weren't able to say who they'd kill instead), and when pressed for why the only answer that they didn't copy from me was that they could pocket roundbox (but roundbox wolfread them lol). I think you're focused on the wrong side of the convo here.

[leetic]

I skimmed over a few of Haze's town and wolf games on MU and honestly their behavior here doesn't really resemble either?

[Haze with a Z]

Originally Posted by leetic

If you want to actually build a case on Haze, you could start with this post. It's definitely odd for them to drop a tunnel that took up like 70 posts of their ISO, but that happens. But now it seems they're still in the tunnel yet not confronting me over it? It does seem that they're a little comfortable with my attention mostly directed towards Zenith

It’s prob stupid logic but you seem to care the most about what is happening and it wand me to melt away my sr because you finally aren’t being contradictory

[leetic]

Originally Posted by Haze with a Z

It’s prob stupid logic but you seem to care the most about what is happening and it wand me to melt away my sr because you finally aren’t being contradictory

Maybe. Do you think Zenith's arguments against me this phase (or against you for that matter) have been fair?

[Haze with a Z]

Originally Posted by leetic

I'm not sure how much "fighting" they were doing when they acquiesced to almost every point I made with them. They were the one saying how not killing roundbox was the optimal option (but weren't able to say who they'd kill instead), and when pressed for why the only answer that they didn't copy from me was that they could pocket roundbox (but roundbox wolfread them lol). I think you're focused on the wrong side of the convo here.

You literally were arguing why roundbox was not an optimal kill and zenith said you were wrong and gave reasons you proceeded to ignore

[Shadow_God_10]

No votes have been cast at the moment.

[Haze with a Z]

Originally Posted by leetic

Maybe. Do you think Zenith's arguments against me this phase (or against you for that matter) have been fair?

I don’t feel zenith has really made arguments this phase tbh

[leetic]

Originally Posted by Haze with a Z

You literally were arguing why roundbox was not an optimal kill and zenith said you were wrong and gave reasons you proceeded to ignore

You have this backwards, and I've even pointed it out to you lol

[Haze with a Z]

Originally Posted by leetic

You have this backwards, and I've even pointed it out to you lol

Yes but then why do your posts also say the opposite?

[leetic]

Originally Posted by Haze with a Z

Yes but then why do your posts also say the opposite?

They don't. Not to be rude here, but is English your first language? It seems you aren't interpreting them correctly. MML, Raeko, and Zenith all said they weren't contradictory lol

[Haze with a Z]

Ok I’m checking back too and idk how you expect zenith to give new ideas when you write as many as you can think of in one post

[Haze with a Z]

Originally Posted by leetic

They don't. Not to be rude here, but is English your first language? It seems you aren't interpreting them correctly. MML, Raeko, and Zenith all said they weren't contradictory lol

It is sorry. I can only say basic words in other languages besides a semi f word equivalent in polish

[Haze with a Z]

Originally Posted by leetic

I'm not sure what benefits you're talking about here? The main things a wolf could achieve by leaving roundbox alive would be promoting paranoia on whether they're real, seeing if anyone counterclaims, and possibly eliminating a bigger threat, but your post appears to argue that having a clear is good for the wolf for some reason?

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Not benefits but beneficial outcomes and one of them is the one you described with leaving him alive and promoting paranoia

Like you act like there are a million benefits to having a clear

[Haze with a Z]

Like when you list everything you can think of why do you expect zenith to have a bunch of new ideas?

[leetic]

Originally Posted by Haze with a Z

Ok I’m checking back too and idk how you expect zenith to give new ideas when you write as many as you can think of in one post

Zenith: "Not killing roundbox would cause positive outcomes for the wolf."
leetic: "What positive outcomes? I mean, if I made that move as a wolf, I would try to take advantage of paranoia of roundbox being fake yada yada yada..."
Zenith: "Well, like you said, it could help promote paranoia, but also other positive outcomes."

Paraphrased but you get the point. This is the part that I take issue with, in that Zenith is making bold statements but not having the substance to back it up and when called out just tries to cover by using my ideas.

[Haze with a Z]

Zenith stop lurking tbh it makes me paranoid

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by leetic

Yeah, I don't know where I got the idea that Raeko was suspecting Zenith

Off of one line that reads

"...and said Zenith and Xel have been wolfy..."

Go ahead and find me the post the claims I am wolfing or a red lean.

Your quotes in context have me at "suspicious" at best, maybe dirty is better, but not red. It is appealing to the continued "consensus" multiple people operated off of during that phase and a little into D2.

I don't know how to answer a lack of game solving from my perspective, part of it is due to I have a life outside of this thread, that requires attention and time, and thus my activity has been lackluster (this is actually why I signed up as a replacement first). I feel increasingly confident that you are the wolf here because I truly think you succeeded in deepwolfing. Putting yourself at center is risky but is very managable for someone with strong social skills (which imo you've presented in this game), but you did a good enough job that people leaned you town and you were able to run with it. If I had to choose you or Haze as wolf here, it's extremely difficult for me to see a world where Wolf Haze kept me alive in F3, not impossible, but comparing it to you, I really only see you doing it and pulling it off.

Originally Posted by leetic

I'm not sure how much "fighting" they were doing when they acquiesced to almost every point I made with them. They were the one saying how not killing roundbox was the optimal option (but weren't able to say who they'd kill instead), and when pressed for why the only answer that they didn't copy from me was that they could pocket roundbox (but roundbox wolfread them lol). I think you're focused on the wrong side of the convo here.

Lets back up here because this is another example of you clearly reading something wrong.

First, you asked me who I would kill in the night, my response to you is my own opinion, it is not a statement that it was optimal or not optimal.

I personally would not have killed roundbox because I would have taken my chances with him alive, and yet again on correcting you, he did not have any case against me or negative feelings towards me, he parked his vote between Xel and I (which I quoted, feel free to reread and try to get it correct again) which were consensus votes (and both wagons for D1).