Any vegetarians/vegans on FFR?

[MrGiggles]

Originally Posted by Chrissi

But the thing is, you DON'T... if you make your food choices wisely, you don't need to kill animals to survive. So what about that? You can't just say "That's the way of life!" when there are plenty of people living this way, not dying, happy and healthy.

Didn't you end up hospitalized?

And I'm not trying to be funny or a dick I'm just kind of confused now

And the whole animal rights thing.... where does it stop? Did ya'll end up picking up Jainism or is it kind of a mammal-only thing because they're easier to relate to?

[gnr61]

Originally Posted by MrRubix

The point of what others were saying was that killing animals for food has been an inevitable and necessary condition for our propagation and survival. Besides, a lot of the products vegetarians/vegans eat still come from processes that inevitably kill small creatures anyway. I've always found the "I don't want to hurt animals" excuse a bit silly.

The best we can really hope for is the humane killing of animals such that they do not suffer.

An inevitable and necessary condition for our survival it may have been, once; this is simply not the case in a day and age when we have sufficient knowledge and means of nourishing ourselves without eating meat. We eat meat in the massive quantities we do because we -like- it, not because we need it. This is why factory farming remains so prevalent despite both its environmental havoc and disregard for animal suffering: as a society we are willing to get up in arms about petty animal welfare issues like pet abuse, but not about macro problems like the mass cultivation of animals for consumption (which in many cases involves conditions that more than constitute "abuse").

I am a staunch believer that while we as a species have the capacity to understand and minimize the amount of suffering we inflict on "lower" beings (and this is the problem with leonid's stance--though he may have been trolling), we have an obligation to do so.

Your last point is of course true in that we will never eradicate meat-eating altogether (at least not in the foreseeable future); but being a vegetarian isn't strictly a goal-oriented position. Yes, any significant portion of a population refusing to participate in factory-farmed food consumption will put some dent in their production (this seems almost outlandish to think about now, but it remains an underexposed issue and may well change with sheer modernization/liberalization of values); however for me it is first and foremost a simple moral stance.

Consider it in relation to anything else you might object to on principle. You might not make any difference at all in your individual opposition to it, but that doesn't make it any less meaningful to abstain

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Being the great kitten eating ass i am... I laughed at this thread.

[Dimitri13]

[MayneWithoutModem]

I'm vegetarian.

-blazze

[remedy1502]

I was a vegetarian for two years. I did my research, ate properly, all that crap, and researched animal rights stuff. I liked it, I was doing a small part in "saving the animals". I used to be like "no meat, bad bad bad" but now I kinda just think, "Don't overdo it." As with anything. Moderation is cool. There is nothing wrong with killing animals for food, but in the food industry it really goes to an extreme. It isn't necessary to eat as much animal products as we do, that's a fact. And you will save money by not doing so. There are tons of ways to get your protein, spinach for iron (I used to eat a lot of spinach). Just make sure you get enough B12, since deficiency in that is ****ty (Chrissi, that really sucks).
So my current diet contains meat, but I don't eat a **** ton. I moderate what I eat a lot still, actually. Even though I don't really need to make sure I'm getting enough iron and protein and b12 and such now.
Healthy = good.

[Shikari]

Food Chain. Bye.

[MrRubix]

Originally Posted by RB_IcePh0enix

Most vegetarians acknowledge that we are all omnivores, and the ones that don't are generally stupid. I've actually done a lot of research on human evolution and dietary habits, and although it's definitely true that we needed meat at a certain point in our evolutionary time-line, eating meat is not currently a necessary condition for our propagation and survival.

Correct -- it's no longer a necessary condition. It's just that we've evolved things like intelligence and empathy and now we consider that sort of thing to be morally questionable and no longer necessary. You can live as a vegetarian/vegan and be perfectly healthy given that you do your research. The problem is that many don't and wind up depriving themselves in some essential category of nutrition. My general point is that those that choose to be vegetarian/vegan for animal cruelty purposes can't avoid everything. Plenty of animals/creatures get killed in all sorts of processes that generate non-meat products that vegetarians/vegans consume. If you want to take it a step further, all living things are distant cousins of one another.

At some level, things die for our survival/pleasure and there's really no avoiding it. Ultimately we can, at best, hope to kill things humanely.

[MrRubix]

Originally Posted by gnr61

An inevitable and necessary condition for our survival it may have been, once; this is simply not the case in a day and age when we have sufficient knowledge and means of nourishing ourselves without eating meat. We eat meat in the massive quantities we do because we -like- it, not because we need it. This is why factory farming remains so prevalent despite both its environmental havoc and disregard for animal suffering: as a society we are willing to get up in arms about petty animal welfare issues like pet abuse, but not about macro problems like the mass cultivation of animals for consumption (which in many cases involves conditions that more than constitute "abuse").

I am a staunch believer that while we as a species have the capacity to understand and minimize the amount of suffering we inflict on "lower" beings (and this is the problem with leonid's stance--though he may have been trolling), we have an obligation to do so.

Your last point is of course true in that we will never eradicate meat-eating altogether (at least not in the foreseeable future); but being a vegetarian isn't strictly a goal-oriented position. Yes, any significant portion of a population refusing to participate in factory-farmed food consumption will put some dent in their production (this seems almost outlandish to think about now, but it remains an underexposed issue and may well change with sheer modernization/liberalization of values); however for me it is first and foremost a simple moral stance.

Consider it in relation to anything else you might object to on principle. You might not make any difference at all in your individual opposition to it, but that doesn't make it any less meaningful to abstain

Not disagreeing with you, here. I too agree that we should minimize abuse wherever possible. People are, of course, free to eat how they want and what they want for whatever reason they want. But oftentimes the decisions are made on faulty premises -- I think it's always reasonable to look into those premises to make sure that you're making the best decision possible.

One of my friends became vegan because she was opposed to killing things. Once she learned that plenty of things get killed no matter what you eat, she decided being a vegan was not worth it. It's expensive and requires a lot of research/monitoring/attention to detail, and the moral premises are oftentimes flimsy and ridden with confirmation bias. Although I would say it's reasonable for someone to, say, not want to eat beef that comes from a slaughterhouse where abuse is rampant (as such a purchase supports said slaughterhouse). But there are plenty of places where animals are killed humanely, and if you really want to, you can ensure that you only eat meat from those locations.

At the end of the day, though, it doesn't matter if the premise is valid/sound/plausible or not. As long as the person is healthy, there's no problem.

[RB_IcePh0enix]

Originally Posted by remedy1502

I was a vegetarian for two years. I did my research, ate properly, all that crap, and researched animal rights stuff. I liked it, I was doing a small part in "saving the animals". I used to be like "no meat, bad bad bad" but now I kinda just think, "Don't overdo it." As with anything. Moderation is cool. There is nothing wrong with killing animals for food, but in the food industry it really goes to an extreme. It isn't necessary to eat as much animal products as we do, that's a fact. And you will save money by not doing so. There are tons of ways to get your protein, spinach for iron (I used to eat a lot of spinach). Just make sure you get enough B12, since deficiency in that is ****ty (Chrissi, that really sucks).

When it all comes down to it, if you eat a well balanced diet and make sure you are getting your essential vitamins, you're going to be healthy, whether you're a vegan or a meat eater. One thing that irritates me is how veganism is judged as an unhealthy lifestyle, yet there's not nearly enough uproar about mainstream American diets. Childhood obesity is a way bigger problem than children being deficient in B12 or iron in developed countries.

I understand your reasoning about the whole 'don't overdo it' thing. I personally feel like I should make the extra step and become vegan to ensure that I'm contributing to animal abusing industries as little as possible. It's a personal, moral choice that I feel I am healthy and financially well off to make. I don't expect everyone to do the same, I simply just want people to be more aware of their diets and where it comes from. When the majority of people are more conscious of where their meat is coming from and are willing to at least cut back on the amount of meat they consume, then I will be happy.

[Jaw-Long]

[Jaw-Long]

ps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moQC0uWapv0

[AsphyxZero]

Originally Posted by Chrissi

You're funny.

Thank you, I try.

You really think most of what we do these days has anything to do with natural selection?

I would think so. I think it can be applied to different things though.

Why are you on this computer...

Because I enjoy it.

does it improve your chance of living long enough to reproduce plentifully?

I'm asexual, I'm not planning on reproducing at all. That's what my brothers and sisters are for.

[Rubin0]

My girlfriend has been a pescetarian for about 11 years now...meaning she will eat fish but no other meat product. She won't drink milk and avoids using it while baking, but she eats eggs and cheese. She has a lot of strange rules for herself.

I have been with her for almost five years and I have never been tempted to go that route. However, I have learned how to make a lot of really great fish dishes ranging from scallops, to tilapia, to mussels, and shrimp. Actially come to think of it, I've become a really good cook because of her.

[Syhto]

lol they have monopolies on livestock and the animals are kept in dreadful conditions, it isn't just killing an animal that had a life it's giving them practically no life at all. in fact its giving them a negative life and its a terrible life. the massive scale that we do this **** on is astounding; let alone growth hormones and antibiotics gone terribly awry

meat is good, and it is a natural thing to consume, but why do it in such an unnatural way

[Syhto]

1 person life + 1 chicken life = 0 lives becuz chicken life is negative

also humans are animals too yall elitist

[EnR]

Why wouldn't someone not drink milk, it comes from the bottom of a cow.

[remedy1502]

Originally Posted by RB_IcePh0enix

When the majority of people are more conscious of where their meat is coming from and are willing to at least cut back on the amount of meat they consume, then I will be happy.

This exactly. What annoys me the most are people who have no idea where their food comes from. People who don't want to know; they don't care. It's this ignorance that really pushed me to educate people around me (and I think I did a decent job with it).
It was also my vegan girlfriend who, I guess, "opened my eyes" to the food industry and animal rights in general. If it wasn't for her, I would probably be just as ignorant as a ton of other people I know. I'm glad I'm not. I'm glad that I'm educated about this.

[RobertsonaIsBack]

meat is so delish why would u not wanna eat it

[fido123]

To all you vegetarians and vegans out there, I understand it but lets say you're at a BBQ and somebody has prepared way to much meat that can't all be eaten. The person who threw the BBQ is going to throw all the meat out after everybody is done eating. Besides for the reason of possibly being so anal about not going any where near the **** they put into animals like steroids and stuff, why not eat the meat if it's going to be thrown out?