NFL's greatest franchise.

[T-Force]

This discussion is not based on the fan base, unless you consider fan base to play a major role in a team's success. In which case, that is utter bull. If someone wants to argue that point, I'll save that for later.

Oh and:

Originally Posted by krunkykai22

Ok so I've read enough of this. Listen, if you want to know the best franchise team based off of competition and scores and super bowls its ****ing pittsburgh come on.

+

Originally Posted by badman7772

It's easy. The Steelers. 6 SB titles. More than any other franchise.

+

Originally Posted by norsegod666

But isn't the Super Bowl the NFL Championship?

=

Originally Posted by T-Force

Green Bay ...as well as having the most league championships with 12 (3 of them being Super Bowls)

/facepalm

Read the facts before you make your claims, gents.

[cC@Zz]

Originally Posted by T-Force

Read the facts before you make your claims, gents.

I'm pretty sure he got his facts straight. The Packers have won the most championships overall when including the pre-Super Bowl and Super Bowl eras.

[norsegod666]

Just because you win the big game does not always mean you are the greatest franchise. Look at Dallas, they havent had a run at the Super Bowl in over 10 years. Yet they have the largest revenue stream in the NFL. When you look at all the revenue the Steelers got from the band wagoners, it still doesnt surpass the Cowboys even in the bad years. Right now the best teams in the NFL are in the NFC East. There is no dispute about it. They are rough, tough, and merciless on each other. That is what makes them contenders for the playoffs every year. Now look at the other divisions that have 1 team always going to the playoffs, like the Colts and Steelers in the AFC South and North respectively. You cannot gauge those teams correctly when they are facing the nonsense AFC teams like Kansas City and Cleveland. If those teams would play any 3 team combination of the 4 NFC East teams you would see a whole different side to them. The AFC as a whole is pretty laid back when it comes to rough and tough football while the NFC likes to pound on their opponents. Simply stating that the Steelers are the greatest franchise just because they won the NFL Championship 6 times is not saying much when they do not deal with the NFC East every 4 years, not counting the playoffs. Switch the Steelers with the Redskins for a year and see what the all-mighty 6-Time World Champions look like come the end of the season.

Originally Posted by cC@Zz

I'm pretty sure he got his facts straight. The Packers have won the most championships overall when including the pre-Super Bowl and Super Bowl eras.

Why is it that every single person splits the NFL into 2 different leagues? The NFL was created in 1922. In 1966 talks of a merger between the NFL and AFL sparked the Commissioner to have the 2 leagues battle each other. In 1967 the first World Championship Game, aka Super Bowl, was played between the best team in the NFL and the best team in the AFL. After the merger in 1970 the league remained named the NFL. All the Super Bowl is is the NFL Championship game. To say it is anything different is just being ignorant.

[T-Force]

Originally Posted by cC@Zz

I'm pretty sure he got his facts straight. The Packers have won the most championships overall when including the pre-Super Bowl and Super Bowl eras.

Uhhh... who are you talking about... the quote at the end is mine... I'm trying to point out to the people stating that Pitt should be the best because they have the most tiles is false.

[cC@Zz]

Originally Posted by norsegod666

Why is it that every single person splits the NFL into 2 different leagues? The NFL was created in 1922. In 1966 talks of a merger between the NFL and AFL sparked the Commissioner to have the 2 leagues battle each other. In 1967 the first World Championship Game, aka Super Bowl, was played between the best team in the NFL and the best team in the AFL. After the merger in 1970 the league remained named the NFL. All the Super Bowl is is the NFL Championship game. To say it is anything different is just being ignorant.

Those were two different eras (before and after the merger) with different league make-ups in terms of teams. Heck it was actually called originally the AFL-NFL Championship game (later changed to Super Bowl). The Super Bowl represents the championship title of both leagues that merged and not just the one that it used to be. The AFL merging with the NFL was a huge event that completely changed the NFL from the league it was before to the one it is today so considering it to be a completely different league with its own championship doesn't seem all that bizzare.

Originally Posted by T-Force

Uhhh... who are you talking about... the quote at the end is mine... I'm trying to point out to the people stating that Pitt should be the best because they have the most tiles is false.

My mistake.

[super kid]

People, you should also take into consideration other factors, such as number of players in the hall of fame, win loss records, play off win loss records, etc.

[cC@Zz]

Originally Posted by super kid

People, you should also take into consideration other factors, such as number of players in the hall of fame, win loss records, play off win loss records, etc.

Even including all those factors I'd probably still pick the Packers. Also if you want to be one of those people that would include the fanbase into the argument the Packers are pretty prolific in that department as well.

[T-Force]

Who counts players in the Hall?!

Oh and W-L records for all 4 teams listed. Regular season and post-season included in final tally:

Pittsburgh: 556-522-21 (Win percentage: .506) - Since 1933
Dallas: 455-333-6 (Win Percentage: .573) - Since 1960
Green Bay: 676-532-36 (Win Percentage: .543) - Since 1921
New England: 405-372-9 (Win percentage: .515) - Since 1960 as Boston Patriots [became the N.E. Patriots in 1971]

Based on that, Dallas wins.

[rqm]

pretty easy choice, ny jets. greatest of all time

[Patricoo]

Originally Posted by norsegod666

I did not direct that at Eagles fans in general, rather at the uneducated idiot who thinks the Cowboys are not a notable team.

Oh I'm the idiot?

Originally Posted by norsegod666

Look at Dallas, they havent had a run at the Super Bowl in over 10 years. Yet they have the largest revenue stream in the NFL.

So... what? They're just like the Yankees except they loose all the time? Its one thing to make the argument that it shouldn't always be about winning, but its another when the reason you don't win is because of the constant stream of mismanagement and internal issues.

Originally Posted by norsegod666

When you look at all the revenue the Steelers got from the band wagoners, it still doesnt surpass the Cowboys even in the bad years.

Steelers are band wagoners? No. You're opinion on everything, including politics and religion, is now null and void. Even as a Philadelphia fan I have to acknowledge the dedication that Steelers fans have. I'm out in central PA and in a place that won't dare root for teams like the Pirates or Penguins, you'll find lots and lots of Steelers stuff strewn throughout the area.

Cowboys fans are the bandwagon ones, needing a shiny over-the-effing-top stadium to keep their attention through their crap. Sure, lots of people like them just for their team colors but you can only go self destruct so many times before even those morons loose interest.

THATS RIGHT I SAID IT. WATCHYA GONNA DO!

[norsegod666]

Originally Posted by Patricoo

Steelers are band wagoners? No. You're opinion on everything, including politics and religion, is now null and void. Even as a Philadelphia fan I have to acknowledge the dedication that Steelers fans have. I'm out in central PA and in a place that won't dare root for teams like the Pirates or Penguins, you'll find lots and lots of Steelers stuff strewn throughout the area.

And you prove yet again how ****ing retarded you are. Try reading what i wrote again. And I also live in Central PA so dont try and pull that **** with me.

[T-Force]

I still think the revenue and fanbase discussion is completely pointless to the topic -____-.

Fans don't make the team great. Look at teams like Cleveland (LOL how did Pittsburgh lose to them XD), and Detroit.
They manage to bring their fans to the stadium, and (in Cleveland's case) still make an opponent's night a living hell, but they can't win games to save their lives.

Revenue is all based on fans, which I have stated in null and void in this conversation, and you don't gain success based on the amount of money in your wallet. While you can argue that that money in your wallet can be spent to bring bigger names into the lineup, that just shows how it's the players and coaches that make a team great; not the money you pay them, nor the fans cheering.

[NinjaPyroKitty]

Steelers. As much as I wanted to say the Bears, it's the Steelers. they've been perenially good since the 70's. I honestly can't name a year the Steelers had a losing record since the Bradshaw days. Although if someone can prove me wrong.

This year? Saints. Don't try to argue this one with me.

[T-Force]

Originally Posted by NinjaPyroKitty

Steelers. As much as I wanted to say the Bears, it's the Steelers. they've been perenially good since the 70's. I honestly can't name a year the Steelers had a losing record since the Bradshaw days. Although if someone can prove me wrong.

Since Bradshaw retired in '83:

2003: 6-10
1999: 6-10
1991: 7-9
1988: 5-11
1986: 6-10
1985: 7-9
2009 (currently): 6-7

*yawn*

Next argument I can disprove, please.

[NinjaPyroKitty]

Originally Posted by T-Force

Since Bradshaw retired in '83:

2003: 6-10
1999: 6-10
1991: 7-9
1988: 5-11
1986: 6-10
1985: 7-9
2009 (currently): 6-7

*yawn*

Next argument I can disprove, please.

That's seven in the past 26 years. I know my hometown team (DA BEARS) would kill for that track record. And the worse they did was 5-11. I don't think any team has a track record that good over such a long period of time.

[norsegod666]

Originally Posted by NinjaPyroKitty

That's seven in the past 26 years. I know my hometown team (DA BEARS) would kill for that track record. And the worse they did was 5-11. I don't think any team has a track record that good over such a long period of time.

Look at the division the Steelers are in though(this has been brought up several times now). You cant say a team is great when they are playing mediocre teams all the time. I will put it out there again, have Pittsburgh play in the NFC East for a year and then tell me they are a great team.

Originally Posted by T-Force

I still think the revenue and fanbase discussion is completely pointless to the topic -____-.

Fans don't make the team great. Look at teams like Cleveland (LOL how did Pittsburgh lose to them XD), and Detroit.
They manage to bring their fans to the stadium, and (in Cleveland's case) still make an opponent's night a living hell, but they can't win games to save their lives.

Revenue is all based on fans, which I have stated in null and void in this conversation, and you don't gain success based on the amount of money in your wallet. While you can argue that that money in your wallet can be spent to bring bigger names into the lineup, that just shows how it's the players and coaches that make a team great; not the money you pay them, nor the fans cheering.

As much as I agree with this, i will say that fanbase is a way to measure success. Think about Cleveland, they are riding the train for 1st Draft Pick yet all their fans stand by them. They may not have the best team but their fans support them as much as they can. Now look at Pittsburgh. They are 6-time Super Bowl winners. All the bandwagoners are rooting for them and giving them money. Watch, you will see them spend a lot of money for a big name player next year because they got all this money from the past year. A big name player will attract more fans to the stadium which in turn causes fans to pay the outrageous prices to just enter the stadium. The more people who enter the stadium, the more money the team makes. It is a never-ending cycle. When a team gets in a slum, Cleveland, they need something to keep them together. That is the fans. So as much as you say revenue and fan base is not a valid point in this discussion, it does have an impact.