Is it wrong to be gay?

[Izzy]

I would argue that people are maturing way slower today then in past decades/centuries. Kids today have less and less responsibilities etc. 12 year olds from the 1800's would be taking care of sibilings or grandparents everyday and possibly working at a job. Now you get 18 year olds that bitch about finding a part time job because they want to sit on facebook all day.

I think the only reason you can consider kids sexually maturing faster is because of the amount of sexual material that is available to them has increased. Any physical maturation has probably remained constant though.

[Rubin0]

Kids (especially young girls) are reaching puberty much much younger. I myself hit puberty at a ridiculously early age, and it either has very little or nothing to do with genetics because most people in my family were late bloomers. . I've actually done research in some of psychology classes, and apparently some researches think that the earlier girls are exposed to sexual content and the earlier they become aware of sex and their sexual bodies, the more quickly their bodies will start to develop. In the past girls' sexuality were guarded heavily, whereas little girls are wearing makeup, learning how to shake their bodies on the dance floor, and overall becoming sexual creatures much earlier. So our increasingly sexualized society could (operative word being could) actually be having an impact on young girls' bodies. That, and I also read that the growth hormones they give to cows actually cause girls (who drink a lot of milk) to develop breasts earlier. So it might be a mixture of things, but the bottom line is, puberty = coming much much earlier than in the past.

[fido123]

If you hit puberty younger that's you. I've yet to see this anywhere. Also I think kids are becoming sexually aware faster, not more sexually "mature" since a lot of people have sex to add onto their "kill-count" and for social status. A lot of this is relative as to how you define mature.

[Rubin0]

Honestly, if you don't believe the puberty issue, then all you need to do is google it. It's something I have learned about from licensed psychologists, although I have never taken any medical classes or health classes about it.

http://www.examiner.com/early-childh...ty-young-girls

Just a quick read. Also, a lot of this is theory, but the numbers are there.


I didn't mean to derail the topic. Sorry, peeps.

[Chrissi]

Originally Posted by fido123

If you hit puberty younger that's you. I've yet to see this anywhere. Also I think kids are becoming sexually aware faster, not more sexually "mature" since a lot of people have sex to add onto their "kill-count" and for social status. A lot of this is relative as to how you define mature.

Seriously? The age of onset of puberty getting younger is no secret, it's been well-known for awhile now. Especially in girls, the age of menarche (first period) has been dropping.

[Rubin0]

Originally Posted by Chrissi

Seriously? The age of onset of puberty getting younger is no secret, it's been well-known for awhile now. Especially in girls, the age of menarche (first period) has been dropping.

I am blown away that you just used the term menarche. I thought I was the only dork that actually uses/knows that word. Thumbs up.

[Chrissi]

If anyone were to use that word it'd be me.

[SpookG]

Earlier puberty is much more likely the result of epigenetics than any kind of psychological manhandling. I don't really believe that those kinds of physical body processes can be forced through psychological behavior.

But since I'm mostly trained in emergency medicine, I'm willing to be soft on the view if you can successfully argue it, just understand I'm going to retain skepticism.

Unrelated, no, it's not wrong. Intelligent people are more experimental, and that doesn't mean it's always good to push the limits. It just means you're more willing to try new things. It's an evolutionary advantage for the species, and a double-edged sword for the individual. I look at being gay that way, if you are to push me to nail it down. Take what you want from that.

[HoneyMelonCalibrator]

Originally Posted by SpookG

Earlier puberty is much more likely the result of epigenetics than any kind of psychological manhandling. I don't really believe that those kinds of physical body processes can be forced through psychological behavior.

But since I'm mostly trained in emergency medicine, I'm willing to be soft on the view if you can successfully argue it, just understand I'm going to retain skepticism.

Unrelated, no, it's not wrong. Intelligent people are more experimental, and that doesn't mean it's always good to push the limits. It just means you're more willing to try new things. It's an evolutionary advantage for the species, and a double-edged sword for the individual. I look at being gay that way, if you are to push me to nail it down. Take what you want from that.

Not sure if I completely misread your post or not, but are you implying that gay people have an element of choice in their decision to be gay?

That's pretty interesting. I personally have always thought that they're born that way. But that's only because a majority of the gay people I've met claim that it wasn't their choice.

[SpookG]

No, I didn't do a proper job of writing the thoughts out; I hadn't had any coffee yet.

I'm going to barebone this argument for the sake of simplification.


Being smart can be an evolutionary advantage, or a disadvantage. It means you often take more risks. Try new things, like drugs, or ridiculously dangerous recreational sports, which can lead to death. let's just leave it at that. So it's not always a good thing, right? They are also tons of intelligent people who squander it. Pretty much a waste of themselves.

Well, who is to say being gay is different than being smart? There is choice implied in this argument. Not the choice of being gay, but the choice of using what sets you apart to either positively or negatively impact your life.

"**** happens to everyone. It's how we deal with it that makes us who we are."

You can be gay and hate yourself for it because others tell you to, or be gay and not give a ****. The only wrong I see is being gay and letting others fool you into believing you're subhuman.

Does this clear things up?

[HoneyMelonCalibrator]

Originally Posted by SpookG

No, I didn't do a proper job of writing the thoughts out; I hadn't had any coffee yet.

I'm going to barebone this argument for the sake of simplification.


Being smart can be an evolutionary advantage, or a disadvantage. It means you often take more risks. Try new things, like drugs, or ridiculously dangerous recreational sports, which can lead to death. let's just leave it at that. So it's not always a good thing, right? They are also tons of intelligent people who squander it. Pretty much a waste of themselves.

Well, who is to say being gay is different than being smart? There is choice implied in this argument. Not the choice of being gay, but the choice of using what sets you apart to either positively or negatively impact your life.

"**** happens to everyone. It's how we deal with it that makes us who we are."

You can be gay and hate yourself for it because others tell you to, or be gay and not give a ****. The only wrong I see is being gay and letting others fool you into believing you're subhuman.

Does this clear things up?

Yeah, that clears things up. That's also a pretty interesting take on the subject.

[Cavernio]

I've heard theories that our nutrition is making girls reach puberty faster, something about the amount of fat in our diets. I would certainly believe that being malnourished would hold back puberty, so maybe its just that people aren't malnourished. Also I'm pretty sure most bodily processes can be affected by psychology.
I really don't think media causes people to be immature. Its that people don't have as many responsibilities, which in turn causes people to spend their time doing what some might consider immature things.

[TimeShaper]

You can suppress the pedophile inside you, and yet, you can't help being homosexual?

[fido123]

It's wrong to have sex with a kid for quite a few reasons but why is it wrong for a man to have sex with another man? Plus I think pedophilia majority of the time is more a lust based physical attraction where a lot of gay people are gay because simply put they can love another person of the same gender more easily.

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by TimeShaper

You can suppress the pedophile inside you, and yet, you can't help being homosexual?

Pedophilia and homosexuality are quite obviously just as different as the concepts of gender and age. There is nothing to compare between those two different types of attractions.

Pedophilia is more of a physical attraction while homosexuality is more emotional. Love doesn't have to be sexual.

[Andrew Mitchell]

i've always wondered does the female/male form (depending which) make gay people uncomfortable

[gnr61]

it really doesn't matter if the love is physical vs. "emotional." i don't think its in the least a stretch to posit that gay people are probably -sexually- attracted to people of the same gender. the point of the pedophilia comparison is to illustrate two apparently inborn sexual preferences, one of which we are extremely uncomfortable condoning.

it is important to distinguish, though, the difference between pedophilia, and having sex with children. the attraction in and of itself is not harmful. having sex with children -is- harmful. we have a tendency to assume the very worst of anyone with a predilection for youthful qualities (a preference i imagine is present to some degree in a lot more people than we acknowledge), because we are aware of the repercussions caused by acting on that predilection.

homosexuality, on the other hand, is neither harmful in thought nor practice. it involves (presumably) two consenting adults and is not the business of the state or anyone else. it really is that simple. the choice vs. non-choice debate (aside from revealing how glaringly misinformed many people are) is pretty irrelevant but somehow that becomes the central issue every time the topic comes up

[spring25960]

I think it wasn't your fault if you are a gay(or lesbian), for that's also a natural feeling.
I have a fellow student who is a gay too,but I like him very much and back him up as a powerful gay~

[fido123]

Originally Posted by Andrew Mitchell

i've always wondered does the female/male form (depending which) make gay people uncomfortable

I'm gay and I don't find anything unattractive about the female body other than the apparent taste/smell of the vagina. A lot of gays though, I find only say their repulsed by the female body because they've just got it so drilled into their head that their gay that they have to think women are repulsive, or even hate everything about women in some cases. Honestly, physically in general I think a male body has a higher chance of being repulsive than a female body. I think most gays are gay due to emotional reasons, but there are those who just really like the male body.

Personally I'm a 5-6 on the Kinsey scale (scale of gayness), and I don't really think there is a true 0 or 6, but it's obvious why people who are 1 act like they're 0, I would too. There's a lot of crap you have to deal with dating somebody of the same sex involving other people, and internally in your own mind. I've dated a few guys but I've found a girl I'm perusing so maybe I can start a family with her and I like her a lot, but most girls would drive me INSANE if I had to date them. So getting back to the point, because I love this girl (not love love but you know), and she has a pretty nice body, I am in fact quite physically attracted to her.

[Cavernio]

"Pedophilia is more of a physical attraction while homosexuality is more emotional. Love doesn't have to be sexual."

Why? Evidence besides own opinion?