Optimal arrow speed?

LordCarlos · 01-4-2015, 08:05 PM

- Does increasing arrow speed make you improve faster?

- How fast is too fast?

- What is the fastest arrow speed you can go (humanly possible)? Like 4.0? 5.0?

- Do you think 2.0 is slow?

- What speed is optimal?

curious

**psychoangel691** · 01-4-2015, 08:06 PM

Every person is different. It also varies by engine. Which are you using? I play the velocity engine and can read up to 2.75 comfortably while still being able to play but I generally play on 2.10 I used to play 2.25 for a long time but decided to try dropping back down which works for the most part but I still bump up on certain songs.

LordCarlos · 01-4-2015, 08:15 PM

Wow, you use the velocity engine? People still use that?

I just tried using it and it's very uncomfortable to use, the R^3 feels amazing compared to it. The framerate seems a bit better in R^3, the queue manager is there, the UI is better, pretty much everything is better so I'm wondering why you use the velocity engine. Actually the arrows on the top don't even highlight when you hit them, so it feels like you aren't even pressing any keys.

I just played a bit more on the velocity engine, and the framerate is like 1/2 or 1/3 the framerate of the R^3 engine, I'm amazed.

ilikexd · 01-4-2015, 08:32 PM

Increasing the speed makes the arrows more spread and thus recognized more easily, more accurately, and more quickly as pattern shapes, which is how stepcharts are read at harder levels.

It also causes less arrows to simultaneously populate the viewing field which creates less confusion and information overload -- this is why some players use a screencut in addition to their speedmod.

It also increases accuracy in a specific way in that the arrows require less visual distance from the receptors to be hit accurately; in other words, the timing window for each judgement is spatially larger.

Conversely, faster speedmods give you less time to react to an incoming arrow or pattern. You are restricted by two things: your inherent reaction time, and visual processing time, that is, the time your mind takes to translate a group of arrows or a pattern as information for your hands. This limit is a steep wall, and while players can still perform fairly well within ranges slightly under their preferred speedmod, their performance often drops sharply when exceeding it. So as players improve, they only very slightly raise their speedmod (like 1.5x to 1.6x or 1.55x) and tend to cap off somewhere, even though they may still be improving as players.

There is no universally optimal arrow speed; your specific optimal arrow speed is an equation based on how fast you can process patterns of arrows versus how spaced out patterns of arrows need to be for you to accurately recognize them.

There are even some players that have one preferred speedmod that gives them greater accuracy and another that gives them greater speed.

**psychoangel691** · 01-4-2015, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordCarlos

Wow, you use the velocity engine? People still use that?

I just tried using it and it's very uncomfortable to use, the R^3 feels amazing compared to it. The framerate seems a bit better in R^3, the queue manager is there, the UI is better, pretty much everything is better so I'm wondering why you use the velocity engine. Actually the arrows on the top don't even highlight when you hit them, so it feels like you aren't even pressing any keys.

I just played a bit more on the velocity engine, and the framerate is like 1/2 or 1/3 the framerate of the R^3 engine, I'm amazed.

Because I've been here for over 10 years and don't like the new engine, I'm used to the older style. I can't play on the new one, and don't have the patience or time to try to get to my skill level on another engine.

LordCarlos · 01-4-2015, 08:49 PM

Wow, but actually even the judgement on the R^3 engine is much more generous it seems. For one, they won't give you any boo's for keys pressed before the first arrow. The whole thing is really incredibly intuitive. I'd assume you'd probably get an even higher skill level, especially with the improved framerape.

**psychoangel691** · 01-4-2015, 09:35 PM

**xXOpkillerXx** · 01-4-2015, 09:55 PM

tfw telling someone who's been playin for 10 years how engines work/what they should use lol.

as for the question, try different speeds for a few sessions, increment speed until you see a noticeable skill drop. get used to that speed and then try faster. repeat. some people stop at a certain speed, some seem to always read faster and faster (at very small increments)

LordCarlos · 01-4-2015, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXOpkillerXx

tfw telling someone who's been playin for 10 years how engines work/what they should use lol.

as for the question, try different speeds for a few sessions, increment speed until you see a noticeable skill drop. get used to that speed and then try faster. repeat. some people stop at a certain speed, some seem to always read faster and faster (at very small increments)

Good advice thanks Opkiller, do you know anyone with the fastest speed?

Btw sorry about the engine thing. I'm just amazed, I just can't believe it. It's like if someone was using windows 95 and floppy drive... I guess it has a couple of nice things to it like the background music and character selection.

**Riotpolice** · 01-4-2015, 10:39 PM

Well some people just have adjusted to velocity, like myself, and don't really wanna adjust a THIRD time to another engine. I know what psychoangel is talking about because it's the same reason why I haven't really made the switch to R3 either.

However, for the speedmod....

Just use a speedmod that is above 1.5 and you should be good. My own speedmod sits at 1.85 and I've used it for most of my time I play FFR. It's a nice speedmod that isn't too fast, but lets me see patterns a whole lot easier than 1.75.

**psychoangel691** · 01-4-2015, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordCarlos

Good advice thanks Opkiller, do you know anyone with the fastest speed?

Btw sorry about the engine thing. I'm just amazed, I just can't believe it. It's like if someone was using windows 95 and floppy drive... I guess it has a couple of nice things to it like the background music and character selection.

Velocity engine isn't that old, geeze.

**TC_Halogen** · 01-4-2015, 10:42 PM

Velocity engine is akin to Windows XP -- it might be dated, but it's got all of the features that a player would want minus custom playlists (hell, the Velocity engine actually still beats out the current engine with regards to sorting functionality).

**SK8R43** · 01-4-2015, 10:53 PM

I still use legacy engine. I'm not THAT good but i play harder songs on it(80+) and ive tried to get used to R^3 and i just cant/dont want to do it. I'm comfortable with the oldest engine because thats what i got used to and i dont have the time/patience to get used to another one which would take me awhile to do thus probably skill dropping(even if not by much)
Oh yeah, i use 2.0 for when i play. Used to use 2.25 but then switched to 2.0 and definitely skill boosted.
I CAN read and play 3.0 and sometimes do faster speeds for fun but not competitively.

**xXOpkillerXx** · 01-4-2015, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordCarlos

Good advice thanks Opkiller, do you know anyone with the fastest speed?

arcnmx (an admin) uses the fastest speedmod I would guess, but it doesnt make him the best player at all (even though it's very amazing to watch tbh). your goal really is to find your personal comfy speedmod so that you have optimal reading/hitting skills. gl

Mahou · 01-5-2015, 12:22 AM

Honestly, I feel like if you're accustomed to play SM, R^3 engine would be your best bet. If you're strictly an FFR player, sticking to Velo and Legacy engine may be your best bet since you're used to the 30 fps.

**rushyrulz** · 01-5-2015, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilikexd

Increasing the speed makes the arrows more spread and thus recognized more easily, more accurately, and more quickly as pattern shapes, which is how stepcharts are read at harder levels.

It also causes less arrows to simultaneously populate the viewing field which creates less confusion and information overload -- this is why some players use a screencut in addition to their speedmod.

This is true, but at a certain (not very high) point, I think the arrow spacing stops mattering so much. Dossar played at 1.75 on velocity which is considered very slow, yet he was (is) one of the best players in the game. In fact, I use that to validate that the speed I use isn't too slow since I play at roughly the same speed as Dossar, which to most people is friggen slow.

1.9x R^3 with screencut to match Velocity dimensions, 1.75 velocity, 1.75 legacy and I'm mid-high D6.

Wayward Vagabond · 01-5-2015, 12:40 AM

i still use the legacy engine. come at me lordcarlos

**Poison-** · 01-5-2015, 12:48 AM

Velocity Engine >

**Xtreme2252** · 01-5-2015, 05:53 PM

I play on 2.2 reverse scroll with Delta arrows and it's perfect for me. I used to prefer 2.0 but once I got comfortable with the game again 2.2 made it easier for me to time the notes and AAA harder songs.

LordCarlos · 01-5-2015, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

i still use the legacy engine. come at me lordcarlos

Ok I will, Yup.

Well some people are old school I guess. They're called "classic" for a reason. I personally love old stuff such as moldy cheese.

I'm surprised people are quoting 2.0x as a speed, I think someone on multiplayer said he does 3.5x or something, and I was only at 1.0x at the time, so listened to him and I increased it to 3.0 and it's actually manageable and fun to play on R^3. I reduced it back to 2.3 when I heard the slower speeds on here, and found some skill improvement so who knows? Maybe practicing on higher speeds results in larger/faster skill acquiring

01-4-2015, 08:05 PM	#1
LordCarlos FFR Player Join Date: Aug 2014 Age: 35 Posts: 52	Optimal arrow speed? - Does increasing arrow speed make you improve faster? - How fast is too fast? - What is the fastest arrow speed you can go (humanly possible)? Like 4.0? 5.0? - Do you think 2.0 is slow? - What speed is optimal? curious Last edited by LordCarlos; 01-4-2015 at 08:05 PM..

01-4-2015, 08:15 PM	#3
LordCarlos FFR Player Join Date: Aug 2014 Age: 35 Posts: 52	Re: Optimal arrow speed? Wow, you use the velocity engine? People still use that? I just tried using it and it's very uncomfortable to use, the R^3 feels amazing compared to it. The framerate seems a bit better in R^3, the queue manager is there, the UI is better, pretty much everything is better so I'm wondering why you use the velocity engine. Actually the arrows on the top don't even highlight when you hit them, so it feels like you aren't even pressing any keys. I just played a bit more on the velocity engine, and the framerate is like 1/2 or 1/3 the framerate of the R^3 engine, I'm amazed. Last edited by LordCarlos; 01-4-2015 at 08:17 PM..

01-4-2015, 08:32 PM	#4
ilikexd Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,205	Re: Optimal arrow speed? Increasing the speed makes the arrows more spread and thus recognized more easily, more accurately, and more quickly as pattern shapes, which is how stepcharts are read at harder levels. It also causes less arrows to simultaneously populate the viewing field which creates less confusion and information overload -- this is why some players use a screencut in addition to their speedmod. It also increases accuracy in a specific way in that the arrows require less visual distance from the receptors to be hit accurately; in other words, the timing window for each judgement is spatially larger. Conversely, faster speedmods give you less time to react to an incoming arrow or pattern. You are restricted by two things: your inherent reaction time, and visual processing time, that is, the time your mind takes to translate a group of arrows or a pattern as information for your hands. This limit is a steep wall, and while players can still perform fairly well within ranges slightly under their preferred speedmod, their performance often drops sharply when exceeding it. So as players improve, they only very slightly raise their speedmod (like 1.5x to 1.6x or 1.55x) and tend to cap off somewhere, even though they may still be improving as players. There is no universally optimal arrow speed; your specific optimal arrow speed is an equation based on how fast you can process patterns of arrows versus how spaced out patterns of arrows need to be for you to accurately recognize them. There are even some players that have one preferred speedmod that gives them greater accuracy and another that gives them greater speed. Last edited by ilikexd; 01-4-2015 at 08:40 PM..

01-4-2015, 08:49 PM	#6
LordCarlos FFR Player Join Date: Aug 2014 Age: 35 Posts: 52	Re: Optimal arrow speed? Wow, but actually even the judgement on the R^3 engine is much more generous it seems. For one, they won't give you any boo's for keys pressed before the first arrow. The whole thing is really incredibly intuitive. I'd assume you'd probably get an even higher skill level, especially with the improved framerape.

01-4-2015, 09:55 PM	#8
xXOpkillerXx ✘ Forever OP✘ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Canada,Quebec Age: 29 Posts: 4,171	Re: Optimal arrow speed? tfw telling someone who's been playin for 10 years how engines work/what they should use lol. as for the question, try different speeds for a few sessions, increment speed until you see a noticeable skill drop. get used to that speed and then try faster. repeat. some people stop at a certain speed, some seem to always read faster and faster (at very small increments)

01-4-2015, 10:42 PM	#12
TC_Halogen Rhythm game specialist. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Bel Air, Maryland Age: 32 Posts: 19,376	Re: Optimal arrow speed? Velocity engine is akin to Windows XP -- it might be dated, but it's got all of the features that a player would want minus custom playlists (hell, the Velocity engine actually still beats out the current engine with regards to sorting functionality).

01-4-2015, 10:53 PM	#13
SK8R43 D7 Elite Keymasher Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: In My Room, 10101 Age: 33 Posts: 4,676	Re: Optimal arrow speed? I still use legacy engine. I'm not THAT good but i play harder songs on it(80+) and ive tried to get used to R^3 and i just cant/dont want to do it. I'm comfortable with the oldest engine because thats what i got used to and i dont have the time/patience to get used to another one which would take me awhile to do thus probably skill dropping(even if not by much) Oh yeah, i use 2.0 for when i play. Used to use 2.25 but then switched to 2.0 and definitely skill boosted. I CAN read and play 3.0 and sometimes do faster speeds for fun but not competitively. __________________ Thee Burstinator [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Last edited by SK8R43; 01-4-2015 at 10:54 PM..

01-5-2015, 12:40 AM	#17
Wayward Vagabond Confirmed Heartbreaker Join Date: Jul 2012 Age: 35 Posts: 5,859	Re: Optimal arrow speed? i still use the legacy engine. come at me lordcarlos __________________

01-5-2015, 12:48 AM	#18
Poison- Nope Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: London, ON Age: 29 Posts: 3,772	Re: Optimal arrow speed? Velocity Engine >

01-5-2015, 05:53 PM	#19
Xtreme2252 Jumpstreams Suck Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: BC, Canada Age: 32 Posts: 217	Re: Optimal arrow speed? I play on 2.2 reverse scroll with Delta arrows and it's perfect for me. I used to prefer 2.0 but once I got comfortable with the game again 2.2 made it easier for me to time the notes and AAA harder songs.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)