Absolute Truth?

[WillTalbot]

Do you believe that absolute truth exists? Do you believe that absolute truth exists for certain things, but not others?

To tell you the truth, I honestly have no idea. I've read dozens of web-pages discussing the topic all of which ended up being biased in the end. I've had discussions with some of my more intelectual friends and ended up receiving mixed conclusions with controdicting evidence. Well I shouldn't say I have no idea, I'm siding with absolute truth exists for certain things because If absolute truth did not exist, that would have to be an absolute truth therefore controdicting itself concluding that ... ??? Haven't figured that one out yet. But if absolute truth exists, by which means would we find that absolute truth? In our own minds? In the Bible, Torah, w/e? If it is there then I would think in my own mind that the creator of the absolute truth would not make it obvious to us, but rather make it available so that we can discover them ourselves. But would be the purpose of creating all of this so that we can discover all of this?

To be honest I can't really back up any side because I don't know enough about the subject to allow me to. But to be honest again, i want to be able to back up one side, or one that i didn't mention if that is possible which is why I'm asking you guys to voice your opinions so I can atleast have an assurance of something ... idk this has been ticking me off for some time now and i want to believe in something, even if it's nothing.

[KlingPosnot]

I think that the only absolute truth that you can prove (because there is only one person it can be proved to...and that is the individual proving it) would be that your thoughts are real...you can't prove that what you see/hear/feel/taste/smell exist outside of your mind, but you can prove to yourself that your mind exists. (I however have many beliefs that I know to be true...but I can't PROVE them to anyone)

[tsugomaru]

For most things, there is no absolute truth. Ethics, morals, and standards will never be absolute truths because they are controlled by made up rules that society has agreed about. Even science can never truly be absolute because the correctness of theories go only as far as our perception.

~Tsugomaru

[danny53x]

DesteniProductions has a lot of good stuff on this. I was browsing around here, however the first result shows Jack explaining the "design" of truth as it would be in comparison to other truths and its comparison to deception. Watch it, you might like it.

In my opinion, there is no absolute truth, because it will always lead to another lie some way or another.

[devonin]

It depends entirely on whether you are referring to truth or Truth. Absolute truths are all over the place. 1+1=2 is absolutely true. The universe, so far as we know, seems to function according to very exact and specific rules that, also so far as we know, can't be circumvented or cancelled out.

Matter cannot be created or destroyed it can only change form. This seems to me to be -true- in a very absolute and real sense.

As for the big T Truths, you're getting headfirst into some pretty major philosophical thought. Personally I'm in favour of Aristotle's forms. I actually do believe that for any concept, idea, thing, there exists even if only theoretically, an absolute and objectively true in all cases perfect form of that concept, idea or thing.

It usually sounds silly when presented in common terms. Any given chair is only a chair insofar as it participates in chair-ness. The absolute form of 'chair' to which all chairs belong, and the emulation of which is the desire of all makers of chairs who care about their craft.

We arrive at big T Truth through the constant creation of synthesis between conflicting ideas. The more we debate, and ponder, and take an active role in this process, the closer we become to that final synthesis that brings us to the perfection of form.

[Kilroy_x]

1. There are absolute truths.
2. There are epistemic limitations
3. There are slow, difficult ways to overcome the epistemic limitations

Some things are a matter of perspective, like whether hotdogs are delicious or not. Even so, there's a large amount of objectifiable truth to account for even in exploring subjective truth. For example, how taste buds work.

[tsugomaru]

But in the end, if someone thinks hotdogs are nasty, it is not an absolute truth that hotdogs are delicious, no matter how taste buds work.

~Tsugomaru

[Kilroy_x]

Of course. But the statement "I like hot dogs because I enjoy their semi-sweet, hearty meat flavor" is just about infinitely better than would be, for example, the statement "I like hot dogs because I'm pretty sure invisible hypersentient sky-carrots want me to".

[tsugomaru]

It's a better statement, but that doesn't make it an absolute truth.

~Tsugomaru

[arsonistsgetallthegirls]

Ever since we knew what to call it (and before, of course), it has affected every field, every thought, and every object.
There are others, but one example of speaking an absolute truth is simply saying "gravity exists".

The only absolute truths in existence are proven, tested, and affect everything.

[Kilroy_x]

Originally Posted by tsugomaru

It's a better statement, but that doesn't make it an absolute truth.

...I didn't say it did.

[devonin]

It is an absolute truth that a reasonable and demonstrably large number of people enjoy the taste of hot dogs.

If one of the qualities of "food-ness" is that the taste is enjoyable, then one of the characteristics of the objectively perfect food would be that everyone finds it enjoyable. Just because we want to say that there -is- an absolute and objective truth, an absolute and objectively perfect everything, doesn't mean we can access that currently.

If one of the characteristics of music is that it is enjoyable to listen to, then there is a perfect song that will be enjoyable to every single person. Doesn't mean it has already been recorded. Does mean that almost all serious musicians are trying to find out what it is.

[SUSUGAM]

I cannot prove to an absolute level that the world existed previous to my birth. I cannot prove that it even existed before my first memory. Furthermore, I cannot prove that it existed beyond this very moment to an absolute level. Because, arguably, my memories could be pure fabrication.

The being blinked into existence 1 second ago, is as likely as the world being blinked into existence 10,000 years ago. Neither those, nor science can be proven to absolutes. For reasons that were very clearly stated in early posts. Perception is as far as we can go. I can prove that I am thinking right this second, and I can only prove that to myself. That is my one absolute truth. The rest is unknown, in essence.

[arsonistsgetallthegirls]

For CT, we sound like a bunch of lunies.

Hot dogs, gravity, and sky carrots?

I don't think we can prove ANYTHING to be an absolute truth.

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by arsonistsgetallthegirls

I don't think we can prove ANYTHING to be an absolute truth.

1 + 1, for the definition of 1 and + as attributed to it by humanity, is invariably equal to 2 for the definition of 2 as attributed to it by humanity.

Absolute truth.

[arsonistsgetallthegirls]

Unless of course, mathematicians are lied to, and 1+1 was discovered to be 1, and covered up by the worlds leaders in fear of global panic.

This thread could get ridiculous.

[Relambrien]

See, the reason that isn't possible is because that would change the definition of 1, the + sign (or addition operation), or 2. As defined by the consensus of humanity, 1 + 1 = 2, invariably and always.

[WillTalbot]

Originally Posted by devonin

It is an absolute truth that a reasonable and demonstrably large number of people enjoy the taste of hot dogs.

I ALMOST fell for this when i first read it but then i stumbled upon the idea that a reasonable and demonstrably large number of people think that they enjoy the taste of hot dogs because you can't prove that they enjoy the taste of hotdogs but you can't disprove it and even lie detectors are not perfect. Which made me consider this statement ...

Originally Posted by SUSUGAM

Perception is as far as we can go. I can prove that I am thinking right this second, and I can only prove that to myself. That is my one absolute truth. The rest is unknown, in essence.

This seems to make more sense because you can't prove that others think they enjoy the taste of hotdogs and if they say they do, you can't prove that they are lying. Only in their own mind will they know their own truth.

[arsonistsgetallthegirls]

Originally Posted by Relambrien

See, the reason that isn't possible is because that would change the definition of 1, the + sign (or addition operation), or 2. As defined by the consensus of humanity, 1 + 1 = 2, invariably and always.

Oh, you're correct good sir.

[Bynary Fission]

In my opinion, I believe there HAS to be absolute truths for the universe to function. Yes, many things can vary throughout. In fact, almost everything is like that. Things change from time to time. But if there was no absolute truth, then eventually everything that exists would soon descend into chaos.

Do you know about chaos theory? Chaos theory states that normally non-dynamic functions change over time exponentially based on initial conditions, which exacerbate change. This is often used to describe the universe and it's working functions. But not everything can be chaos. The parameters of chaos are defined by higher powers. Absolute truths. I believe absolute truths exist in several laws that govern the universe. One example is physics. Physics govern how the universe runs. Chaos in itself is almost complete unpredictability. But based on absolute truths that go above it, it has it's parameters, and it can only be unpredictable to a point. For example, when, say, a star forms, there's no telling how large it'll be when it is finished growing. But a star can't grow to half the size of the universe, right? Because it is governed by absolute truths that have NO exceptions. They are constant and non-dynamic. The universe is a dynamic, ever-changing entity that embodies all life and matter within it. Things come and go. Stars are born, then die a few billion years later. Civilizations are born, flourish, then wither away. Galaxies are formed than die (Or will soon anyways, should the ultimate fate of the universe progress as expected. What that is is an entirely different topic). If no laws were to govern what happened, the universe would collapse under itself and probably descend into chaos. What that is I cannot say, as it hasn't happened.

Theologically, God(s) are absolute. The laws they legislate upon human beings are absolute. They do not change, they do not disappear. God(s) themselves are the same (at least in many religions, like Christianity. I can't say that for all religions, and I don't want to list them all either). Absolute truth forms the foundation of many religions. If Gods weren't absolute, then religion could not exist. After all, all religions center around one or more deitys. If they constantly changed, how could religion form the solid tenets of faith and higher powers that people are to believe in? Exactly my point. However, since religion cannot be proven to be true, the absolute truths that exist within it are null when referring to real life.

Absolute truths are even found in society. For example, one absolute truth is that murder is NOT acceptable. The reason I say this is because no society has ever existed that condones murder. (Or, at least to my knowledge). When you murder somebody, the punishment is typically either a very long prison sentence, or death. It can vary from society to society. If such truths did not exist, then society would descend into anarchy, then collapse. Think about this. If you were allowed to murder, rape, burn, steal, and harm anybody you wanted with no punishment whatsoever, do you think such a society would last very long, if at all? Precisely my point. These truths exist in a civilization so that it protects it from itself. Even if laws (Not absolute) prohibiting it did not exist, do you really think that person would not be punished? Others would punish him.

To sum up what I am saying, absolute truths exist so that that universe and it's sub-worlds can exist and flourish, then die. Then it starts all over again. With these truths governing us, we can exist. Here is an example. Can you make gravity suddenly disappear? No. Is there an exception to gravity? No. All objects exert gravity based on their mass. It has always been that way, it is that way, and always will be that way until the end of time. But without gravity, no life could exist. Planets would not exist (They could never form if there was no gravity to pull objects together, which becomes a planet. If it was form by objects smashing into it, the objects would just float away). What I am saying is that while chaos exists in 99.9999999999999% of all things, that 00.0000000000001% that is absolute enables the other 99.9999999999999% to exist.

P.S This is mostly an opinion, so what I say can be disputable.


~Bynary Fission