Opinion on fonts?

[Nullifidian]

Hey,

I'm typing out my internship essay as we speak, and I wanted to know people's opinions on font usage.
I want the essay to look somewhat elegant but not boring. Although more importantly, I want my essay to be readable.
I have set a rule for myself to use sans serif font for headers and titles, and serif fonts for the actual content. I also don't want to use Times New Roman, since it's so widely used already.
Right now I'm using Garamond for the content, but it could be subject to changes if I'm convinced otherwise.

My question to you guys is, which font do you prefer for your content and why? And also which font size you prefer for reading a physical document.
People experienced in typography and such are a plus, but anyone's opinion is welcomed.

[nois-or-e]

I tend to be a sucker for using Verdana for a lot of purposes, but then again if I want to look serious as well as semi-sophisticated I tend to use Book Antiqua.

Probably a 90/10 split for Verdana/Book antiqua for me.

[Nullifidian]

Originally Posted by nois-or-e

I tend to be a sucker for using Verdana for a lot of purposes, but then again if I want to look serious as well as semi-sophisticated I tend to use Book Antiqua.

Probably a 90/10 split for Verdana/Book antiqua for me.

Verdana is a sans serif font though, not really fit for a physical document. Serif fonts tend to be more readable on paper because it connects the words for better readability, whereas sans serif fonts are good for online reading.
I'll note down Book Antiqua though.

[ScylaX]

I like Helvetica abuse, It's like I put it everywhere I can because I find it amazingly sexy. I actually never liked serif fonts but what you said interests me, if they're really more readable than sans serif fonts I'll probably develop some love for one of these (Garamond Classico looks neat). However I'll keep using Helvetica for headers.

[midnghtraver]

I like Helvetica Neue

[Silvuh]

I had a teacher who said that serifs are out-dated, because we don't write in stone anymore, and all they do is take up more space anyway.
I do like Garamond, though. Especially that Adobe version that's a little slimmer.

My favorite Windows-default sans-serif font is Levenim MT. It's a Hebrew font, and I don't know how to get this version (2007) of Word to use Hebrew fonts for writing in the Latin alphabet. I used to always use the Hebrew font Miriam when I wanted to fit as much text into as few pages as possible. (I'd have like three pages front and back of articles, seeing other students with multiple four-ish page packets, printed directly from the Web .. heh.)

I also like using the default Asian fonts, because they have multiple weights, which can be convenient.

11-point font is nice. Smaller than 12 but still easily readable. I die a little inside every time I get a paper assignment that says "This paper must be typed in 12-point Times New Roman, double spaced." Double spacing... just, double spacing. //sour face// I don't feel like using twice as many pages, thanks. I squish a lot of stuff into a small space, and I can still read it. No room to write on it when I do that, but eh.

I'm not really picky with certain things, I guess. Colibri looks fine to me, and I don't usually care to change it.
When working on graphics, though ... that's totally different. I can screw around with specifics: the kerning, height, width, spacing, any options I'm given, going through all the fonts and ... yeah. Text in graphics is fun. Text in documents is whatever, or ... whatever.

[ScylaX]

What's the difference between Helvetica and Neue anyway

[sakura080789]

we could always pick which ever font we wanted in school so i always used Rage Italic at a 18 font but now i use Birth Of A Hero so idk all a matter of opinion

[Nullifidian]

Originally Posted by sakura080789

we could always pick which ever font we wanted in school so i always used Rage Italic at a 18 font but now i use Birth Of A Hero so idk all a matter of opinion

Yeah I'm talking about an elegant font for an official professional document, not graphical fonts like birth of a hero lol. And I don't want to fake how much I have either because I'm confident in my content, so no 18+ size to make it look like it's more than it is. (Most teachers see right through it btw, they're not dumb. )

Originally Posted by Silvuh

I had a teacher who said that serifs are out-dated, because we don't write in stone anymore, and all they do is take up more space anyway.
I do like Garamond, though. Especially that Adobe version that's a little slimmer.

My favorite Windows-default sans-serif font is Levenim MT. It's a Hebrew font, and I don't know how to get this version (2007) of Word to use Hebrew fonts for writing in the Latin alphabet. I used to always use the Hebrew font Miriam when I wanted to fit as much text into as few pages as possible. (I'd have like three pages front and back of articles, seeing other students with multiple four-ish page packets, printed directly from the Web .. heh.)

I also like using the default Asian fonts, because they have multiple weights, which can be convenient.

11-point font is nice. Smaller than 12 but still easily readable. I die a little inside every time I get a paper assignment that says "This paper must be typed in 12-point Times New Roman, double spaced." Double spacing... just, double spacing. //sour face// I don't feel like using twice as many pages, thanks. I squish a lot of stuff into a small space, and I can still read it. No room to write on it when I do that, but eh.

I'm not really picky with certain things, I guess. Colibri looks fine to me, and I don't usually care to change it.
When working on graphics, though ... that's totally different. I can screw around with specifics: the kerning, height, width, spacing, any options I'm given, going through all the fonts and ... yeah. Text in graphics is fun. Text in documents is whatever, or ... whatever.

Afaik serif isn't outdated. It just depends on the situation which one is better to use, and a printed document reads better with a serif font. Sans serif is better for reading a document online or for titles/headers to catch someone's attention.

I have to be picky with the font I'm using because a lot depends on this document. I have freedom in what to pick as font, but they expect me to make a professional document based on what I've learned at school. If I used comic sans ms for example, they'd just throw it in the trashcan lol.

[Gundam-Dude]

Roughly along the lines of what my typography professor and some other typographers have said but Helvetica and Garamond are the classic go-to fonts. They will always look good. My personal favourites include the following:
Serifs: Adobe Garamond Pro/Garamond Premier Pro, Minion Pro, Baskerville, Friz Quadrata
Sans Serifs: Helvetica, Helvetica Neue, Futura, Univers, Century Gothic, Frutiger, Myriad Pro, Gill Sans, Optima

Best point size over leading is 11/13 (quoting my typography prof here). Leading should never be set solid (e.g. 10/10, 11/11, 12/12 etc.) unless you're working with display type which is classified as anything above 14pts. For text that is meant to be read, you should keep a minimum of 2-3 points of difference between point size and leading. Going with a larger difference will decrease the readability and legibility, so you have to be very careful.

I'll quickly list 20 typographic conventions to keep in mind for choosing typefaces that you probably know a bit of (this is off a class hand out I have, lol).
1 - For optimum legibility, choose classical typefaces with an extended family. Choose typefaces that are drawn and crafted with consistency along the full range of characters and usually those with higher x-heights.
2 - Don't use too any typefaces at one time. An extended font family is preferred.
3 - Avoid combining typefaces that are too similar in appearance.
4 - ALL CAPS IS NOT READABLE.
5 - The average reading distance is from 12 to 18 inches, therefore, sizes between 9 and 12 point are best suited.
6 - Avoid using too many different type sizes and weights at the same time. Only use sizes to indicate hierarchy.
7 - Use text types of medium or text weight. Avoid those that are too bold or too light in weight.
8 - Use typefaces that are set in normal width. Avoid extremely wide or narrow faces.
9 - For text type, use consistent letter and wordspacing to produce an even, uninterrupted texture (colour).
10 - Use appropriate line lengths. Lines that are too long or too short disrupt the reading process.
11 - Use the appropriate amount of leading between lines of text type.
12 - Use standard and acceptable convention in structuring text type. Flush left, rag right, etc. and avoid mixing styles
13 - Avoid rags in which strange awkward shapes or repetitive and predictable pattern of line endings happen. Avoid multiple hyphens and punctuation. Shape your paragraphs whenever possible. Watch out for rivers.
14 - Clearly indicate paragraphs but be careful not to upset the integrity and visual consistency of the text.
15 - Avoid widows and orphans. A widow is a word or partial line of text at the end of a paragraph. Orphans are words or partial lines of text appropriation at the top of the page.
16 - Emphasize elements within text with discretion and without disturbing the flow of reading.
17 - Always maintain the integrity of type. Avoid arbitrarily stretching, condensing, bolding or italicizing letters. Use extended or condensed if your type family includes those variations.
18 - Always align letters and words on a fixed baseline.
19 - Avoid reverse type (white on dark background). If you do use this, remember that reversed type needs extra space, horizontally and vertically, to be readable.
20 - Avoid letterspacing lowercase characters. l i k e t h i s

Originally Posted by ScylaX

What's the difference between Helvetica and Neue anyway

The cuts on the typefaces are different and they were made in different time frames. The differences are noticeable if you carefully look and analyze both (I love to do this BTW). Helvetica Neue also has a much more extended family with various weights and styles, which makes it a highly universal font to use over the original Helvetica which has a smaller selection.

lol long post but what can I say, I love typography

[Spenner]

Find someway to contrast with a higher pt size Helvetica and something like 11pt size for the document; that's what I'd do at least. Serifs aren't outdated, but being able to use a sans serif and make it readable is more modern and they may be looking for a modern layout.

What ever you do, however, avoid and fix:

-Rivers (spaces that run along big paragraphs that make a path straight through it-- fix it by changing kerning and tracking as you see fit) try squinting at Gundam's post and see if you can spot the rivers :P I counted 7 noticeable ones. They're more obvious after printing the paper out though.
-Jagged edges (without using "full justification", that can just get nasty. However you can make full justification look nice if you take the time to kern every word and letter that's bubbled (UGH) which I had to do for a small assignment :l)
-Be aware of kerning pairs like "AV"
-Consistency in leading and font choices, I would keep to having one display size font and one body copy font, and maybe something else if needed for emphasis during a paragraph.
-Negative space. Make sure there's room to breathe or no matter what it will be a pain in the ass to read.
-Kern your headline, make it nice 'n sexy

Read it from all angles to make sure it's 100% easy to read-- it's really make an impression if it actually has flow and you've taken the time to make sure there's nothing that makes the eye freeze on in confusion (letters that might not be kerned properly and could appear to have a space between the letters-- sometimes that happens after it's been printed)

Which reminds me, print it out and THEN judge what you need to change. This is going to be handed in physically, right? Print it out and THEN highlight your mistakes, because it could look find on the computer but on on paper

You want this to show who you are, and you're an artist, so make it imply that I'd probably make it in InDesign or something that gives you flexability. Or at least import the text you've written to InDesign to lay it out.

[rushyrulz]

Times New Roman

[sakura080789]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

Times New Roman

yes this

[NeoMasterPie]

Originally Posted by _.Spitfire._

I also don't want to use Times New Roman, since it's so widely used already.

oh

[LongGone]

yay

[leonid]

HELVETICA

[midnghtraver]

Originally Posted by leonid

HELVETICA

2 V. 1 we win.

[rushyrulz]

comic sans

[midnghtraver]

Wait... IMPACT IN ALL CAPS. He'll love it.

[Gundam-Dude]

Found another note/handout I have that focuses mainly on reading text which is highly relevant to this thread.

The following are the top 4 most used fonts for reading text, which also includes font sizes:
Adobe Caslon (11/12.75 pt)
Adobe Garamond (11.5/12.75 pt)
ITC Stone Serif (9.5/12.75 pt)
Janson Text 55 Roman (10.5/12.75 pt)

There are some conventions to keep in mind but it's pretty long. If you're interested in reading it, I've provided it below.

1. Pick a typeface with similar character widths
For the smoothest appearance, an alphabet character should have similar widths. Reading has a natural rhythm; an alphabet such as Futura with widely varying widths disrupts it.
Widely varying widths (Futura) vs Similar widths (Times New Roman)

2. Medium height-to-width ratio
We identify letters by their physical characteristics—stems, bars, loops, curves and so on; the clearer they are the more legible the letter. As letters are compressed (or expanded), these features get distorted—diagonal strokes, for example, become quite vertical—and so are harder to identify.
Medium height-to-width ratio (ITC Stone Serif) vs Compressed height-to-width ratio (Racer)

3. Medium x-height
The x-height of a typestyle is the height of its lowercase characters. The larger the x-height, the denser the type will appear. You want medium; unusually tall or short x-heights are better suited for specialty products.
Medium x-heights: Cochin, Times New Roman, Adobe Caslon

4. Look for small variations in stroke weight
The best text faces have stroke weights that vary somewhat, which make converging lines that help the eye flow smoothly. But avoid extremes. Modern styles vary too much; at high resolution their beautiful, superthin strokes disappear in a dazzle. Sleek geometric styles vary little or not at all, so are too uniform.
Too different: Bauer Bodoni
Medium difference: Times New Roman
No difference: Futura Medium

5. Watch out for mirrors
Geometric typestyles are so uniform that their letters are often mirror images. For text, this is not ideal—the more distinct each letter is, the more legible whole words will be. Look for typestyles that don't mirror.
Mirrored: Helvetica Neue Roman
Not mirrored: Gill Sans

6. Avoid overlarge counters
Counters are the enclosed spaces inside letters. Avoid typestyles whose counters are very large in relation to the stroke weight. In the case of Avant Garde, note how much greater the space inside the letters are than the space outside! This will slow the reader; set in text, Avant Garde looks like Swiss cheese!

7. Avoid quirkiness
Typographic sprites are fun to look at and great for heads, but in text they wear out their welcome fast. Why? The extra swashiness gives the eye too much to follow and is very tiring.
Fun, but too quirky for text: Belwe