God.

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

You have no real evidence of the source of gravity (which is supposedly matter, but how does that theorically true for all things?),

The "source" of gravity? Gravity is the force that pulls objects towards each other, so I don't know what you mean by "source." Each object would be a "source" the way I'm thinking of it.

EDIT: Apparently you meant what allows for gravity's existence, not what causes gravitational effects (we could debate what I'm saying, but just know that I understand what you mean by "source" now even if I can't explain it). So yeah, look at Grandiagod's post for that.

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

and you have no evidence there is anti-matter (the opposite of gravity, for those of you who haven't taken a physics class).

I have not taken a physics class, so I cannot respond to this.

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

So you can't disprove the idea of God all together. The IDEA of gravity is consistent on this planet, in this galaxy, but who says it still works outside of the milky way, or off the planet?

Neil Armstrong. It worked on the moon, therefore it works outside of the planet. Oh, and scientists have found other galaxies, with orbits, and therefore gravity.

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

Theory.
"Science."
Isn't "science" the same as "God"? You can't be completely sure of either.

No. They're opposites. "Science" attempts to explain the natural world through laws and observations. "God" is a way of explaining the natural world without having to do much work, because "some omnipotent divine being did it." Not that there's a problem with believing that, but that's just what it boils down to.

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

You can only prove your theories and test a hypothesis on THIS planet, as far as I have seen. You can trust what people tell you and what you learn. You can't ever really be sure of either.

You can also prove your theories and test a hypothesis in space. We have space shuttles and space stations, you know? What do you think those astronauts are doing up in the International Space Station?

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

There's plenty of evidence supporting God as there is supporting Science.

Please list it?

[Grandiagod]

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

It seems like everyone here thinks they have their god concept down to a science, so I'm not going to argue. I'm going to state a fact:

You have no real evidence of the source of gravity (which is supposedly matter, but how does that theorically true for all things?),

Gravitons are responsible for gravity. Read next time.

and you have no evidence there is anti-matter (the opposite of gravity, for those of you who haven't taken a physics class).

Anti matter has been created by scientists.

So you can't disprove the idea of God all together.

And you can't disprove I have a pink fairy in my pants.

The IDEA of gravity is consistent on this planet, in this galaxy, but who says it still works outside of the milky way, or off the planet?

I'm just going to sit back and laugh at this one.

Isn't "science" the same as "God"?

Science doesn't claim to have created the universe and doesn't try to govern humanity through an obtuse set of morals.

You can't be completely sure of either. You can only prove your theories and test a hypothesis on THIS planet, as far as I have seen.

Oh god, this is embarrassing.

You can trust what people tell you and what you learn. You can't ever really be sure of either.

DEM LIBRAL SCEINTISTS IZ TEACHIN ME LIEZ

There's plenty of evidence supporting God as there is supporting Science.

Orly, why don't you show the rest of us?

And your idea, concept, conviction of god is as childish as they come, but I'm not going to be a jerk, so I accept your opinions.

Irony alert.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

Isn't "science" the same as "God"?

No, that is why they are different words that refer to demonstrably different things. This statement makes the same sense as "Aren't badgers the same as cupboards?"

You can't be completely sure of either.

the integral difference is that science admits its margin for error and constantly seeks to find errors and correct them, while religion is static and tends towards stating that things are universally "this way" always have been and always will be, and brook no attempts to disprove.

You can only prove your theories and test a hypothesis on THIS planet, as far as I have seen.

For hypotheses and theories that refer to this planet and the things on it, I'm pretty sure that "this planet" is a pretty accurate sample size.

There's plenty of evidence supporting God as there is supporting Science.

Please supply this evidence. Ensure that it is tested, testable, reproducable, and consistant across all attempts to examine it.

And your idea, concept, conviction of god is as childish as they come, but I'm not going to be a jerk, so I accept your opinions.

Just because you feel God is involved in doing more things than watching Jewp masturbate (And god knows, jewp spends enough time doing that) you must admit that an omniscient deity is by definition watching jewp masturbate.

Edit: Wow, poor guy got triple teamed all at once. (Was god watching that just now? Oof)

[Rhapsodic Truth]

Thank you. I FINALLY got a response worth listening to.
But I rest my apparently "awful" case.

But these are my humble last statements, that will most likely result in complete failure:

When you do something bad, something bad will happen to you. The Bible claims this is God's punishment. Now, as far as I have seen, this is true, depending on the way you look at it (which won't be true in your eyes). "For every action, there is an equal, but opposite reaction." (please don't assume bad = bad is the same reaction)

Specific occurences in the Bible have been proved to have actually happened in history. I'm not going to look it up for you.

-
Off the record of evidence and all this "you believe this and i think it is wrong" and vice-versa, I personally think it sucks at the end of the day to know that there's nothing out there but a world full of people who can't do anything but empower themselves, rather than something greater than all of those people who think they've got everything figured out. Something to really be there for you when everyone else abandons you.

Thanks for hearing my side of things.

[Ichiro_Suzuki_desu]

Originally Posted by Grandiagod

Gravitons are responsible for gravity. Read next time.

Gravitons are currently speculation. They have never been directly observed, only implied by gravity's effects.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

Thank you. I FINALLY got a response worth listening to.

All responses that are reasonable and thought out are worth listening to. Even if you don't want to listen to it, address it anyway. Anything else is incredibly arrogant.

But I rest my apparently "awful" case.

So...three people all took issue with your statements, provided counterclaims, and you rest your case? This implies that you agree with us and have changed your position, which the rest of your post implies this is not the case.

When you do something bad, something bad will happen to you.

This is not provably true. Even if one person once does something bad consequence free, the statement has been proven false. Good things happen to bad people and vice versa all the time.

The Bible claims this is God's punishment. Now, as far as I have seen, this is true, depending on the way you look at it (which won't be true in your eyes).

No...the -only- way you can look at this and see that it is true is if you have already concluded that the christian god is real, and functions exactly as described in the bible. You can't prove that this is god's punishment until you've proven that God exists, which you cannot do.

"For every action, there is an equal, but opposite reaction." (please don't assume bad = bad is the same reaction)

For certain very specific definitions of action. The equal and opposite reaction to my punching a nun is the nun's head flying backwards, not any later eventual punishment I suffer for punching a nun.

Specific occurences in the Bible have been proved to have actually happened in history. I'm not going to look it up for you.

So what? I could write a book that describes all kinds of events that have occured in history, and also fill it with piles of complete nonsense. Just because it was correct in some ways in NO WAY implies that it is correct in all or even most ways.

-

Off the record of evidence and all this "you believe this and i think it is wrong" and vice-versa, I personally think it sucks at the end of the day to know that there's nothing out there but a world full of people who can't do anything but empower themselves, rather than something greater than all of those people who think they've got everything figured out. Something to really be there for you when everyone else abandons you.

Freud describes God as humanity's desire to create a father figure to look over them, protect them, and keep them safe from harm. He said that he could absolutely understand why many people felt the need to create such a figure, but felt that it was childish, weak and immature to be too afraid to stand up on your own feet and acknowledge that only you are responsible for your life.

Thanks for hearing my side of things.

Thanks for sharing it.

[Rhapsodic Truth]

Originally Posted by devonin

Freud describes God as humanity's desire to create a father figure to look over them, protect them, and keep them safe from harm. He said that he could absolutely understand why many people felt the need to create such a figure, but felt that it was childish, weak and immature to be too afraid to stand up on your own feet and acknowledge that only you are responsible for your life.

And that's where I believe Freud is wrong. I know I am completely responsible for my life, putting all religion aside. Even when you throw religion into the mix, it is said that God gave man free will. God's not taking up anyone's actions, people are doing what they please, when they please. If people blame their actions on religion or God, they are the weak ones Freud was speaking of. I do no such thing. I know I am responsible for my life and the things I do and the decisions I make. Claiming people are childish, weak, and immature is pretty much generalization, which in turn, is all those things.

[Grandiagod]

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

But these are my humble last statements, that will most likely result in complete failure:

At least you didn't get my hopes up.

When you do something bad, something bad will happen to you. The Bible claims this is God's punishment. Now, as far as I have seen, this is true, depending on the way you look at it (which won't be true in your eyes). "For every action, there is an equal, but opposite reaction." (please don't assume bad = bad is the same reaction)

Prove it.

Specific occurences in the Bible have been proved to have actually happened in history. I'm not going to look it up for you.

If you make as statement you have to prove it



wow that was easy

[Kilgamayan]

If there was a God he would lock this thread.

[lord_carbo]

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

It seems like everyone here thinks they have their god concept down to a science, so I'm not going to argue. I'm going to state a fact:

You have no real evidence of the source of gravity (which is supposedly matter, but how does that theorically true for all things?), and you have no evidence there is anti-matter (the opposite of gravity, for those of you who haven't taken a physics class)

Oh God, you're speaking down to people who haven't taken a physics class when you QUESTION OR ASSUME THERE MAY NOT BE ANTIMATTER?

Oh, by the way, antimatter is not "the opposite of gravity"... Unless you state that gravitons are matter, but at that point you'd just be using indetermination to support your logic when you very well know that you were defining antimatter solely as "the opposite of gravity".

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

The IDEA of gravity is consistent on this planet, in this galaxy, but who says it still works outside of the milky way, or off the planet?

Are you sure you took a physics class?

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

Thank you. I FINALLY got a response worth listening to.

Because devonin didn't take the time to respond to what was obviously stupid in your post, i.e. the things you could NEVER respond to without looking like even more of a dolt? Don't worry, I did the honors for him and responded to the *especially* stupid stuff.

[jewpinthethird]

Originally Posted by Rhapsodic Truth

And that's where I believe Freud is wrong. I know I am completely responsible for my life, putting all religion aside. Even when you throw religion into the mix, it is said that God gave man free will. God's not taking up anyone's actions, people are doing what they please, when they please. If people blame their actions on religion or God, they are the weak ones Freud was speaking of. I do no such thing. I know I am responsible for my life and the things I do and the decisions I make. Claiming people are childish, weak, and immature is pretty much generalization, which in turn, is all those things.

You are misinterpreting what Freud was trying to say. Freud's claim was that man believes in God because he wants some kind of authority figure to govern his life. It's comforting to know that there is a big guy in the sky, watching over you, ready for you when you die. God protects against uncertainty.

Primitive man worshiped polytheistic deities that were symbolic of natural occurrences that could not be explained. Worship was a form of ensuring that the Gods would be pleased and continue to allow the crops to grow and the sun to shine. As man's knowledge about the natural world grew, he freed himself from worshiping the sun, and rain, etc. Science tells us that the Sun will always rise, and spring will always come. (Stephen Colbert "Whatever science explains makes God smaller"). But there was still a lot that was left unexplained. So man created one God to tie up all the loose ends. I'm fairly certain that's how anthropological textbooks from the future will read...assuming the God damn religious fanatics, whose only guidance comes from a compilation of stories written by primitive midget men who didn't even know the Earth was round, don't blow up the f*cking world first.

Of course, I've only recently become an vocal unapologetic atheist.

[Boatz]

If all primitive men were just halfway in the process of evolution, I really don't think they would have the cranial capacity to understand the concept of religion. They probably just found the prettiest thing they could find and worship it.

Although to be fair, I don't understand the point of religion either. What's the point? What's the point of letting a huge authority figure - and here's the kicker - who MAY NOT exist choose all of the rules and tell us how to live our lives? That's just human weakness. Freud is dead right.

[alainbryden]

Originally Posted by Kilgamayan

If there was a God he would lock this thread.

Lmao


Flow chart on page 1 is fantastic.

Also Boatz has been watching Scrubs and worshiping Dr. Cox's rants.


Jewpin you have some damn good one liners in there, the best of which point out that God has always existed to explain away the loose ends that made people uncomfortable, and that every new thing that science explains makes the concept of God less significant.

There's the whole other dimension though, which bugs the hell out of me, that most religions use the concept of God not only to comfort them in their lack of knowledge, but also to govern others by imposing additional ignorance and impending fear.

[Boatz]

Originally Posted by alainbryden

Also Boatz has been watching Scrubs and worshiping Dr. Cox's rants.

I think the fact that I have pin-ups of Perry is a moot point...

Religion in a nutshell: idiots can't control their own lives, invent a God, give it a name that, apparently, is a prophet or planet or star or whatever. These idiots then go and kidnap people and brainwash them into thinking they must not certain things, things that nowadays are commonplace.

Its like "I don't want a child yet..." TOUGH!!!! You're a Catholic, you can't wear a condom. Or "I could kill for some steak..." TOUGH!!! You're a JEw, that's not Kosher.

And unserweiter. It really is a shambles.

[alainbryden]

Originally Posted by Boatz

- and here's the kicker -

Completely stolen style of rant

[purebloodtexan]

Originally Posted by Boatz

I think the fact that I have pin-ups of Perry is a moot point...

Religion in a nutshell: idiots can't control their own lives, invent a God, give it a name that, apparently, is a prophet or planet or star or whatever. These idiots then go and kidnap people and brainwash them into thinking they must not certain things, things that nowadays are commonplace.

You really need to put yourself into someone else's shoes. Think before people had the choice to deny religion, before religious oppression, before we had the tools to discover the modern laws of science today. We didn't have a decent explanation of what occured in nature, and the only explanation we had was that there was a divine power controlling it. Think about what Jewpin is saying about our evolutionary ancestors. They had no control over nature or had any idea about what controlled it. Hell, there were volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, floods, blizzards, fires, thunderstorms, hurricanes, tornadoes - the list goes on. Put yourself in a caveman's shoes hundreds of thousands of years ago, and try to explain what nature is doing.

Also, even when nature was being discovered (Albeit this is still hundreds of years ago), religion often kept stability and control over a kingdom/territory, and gave us a sense of morals. Although we can still have a sense of morals and control without religion these days, religion was one of the key foundations of what those morals and senses of control are.

"Stop throwing your food, Jimmy!"
"No!"
"STOP THROWING YOUR GODDAMN FOOD OR YOU'LL BURN IN HELL!"
".......Yes ma'am."

Clearly exaggerated, but you get the idea of how much of an influence religion had on our behavior. Seeing how they were taught to behave due to their belief in a good afterlife, they brought their habits down to their children, who passed it on to their children, who passed it on to their children, etc., whether they were religious or not.

So, yes, religion isn't just for adult human beings inferior to a child of three.

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by Boatz

If all primitive men were just halfway in the process of evolution, I really don't think they would have the cranial capacity to understand the concept of religion. They probably just found the prettiest thing they could find and worship it.

According to scientists, Neanderthals (which, like us, evolved from Homo erectus, though they went extinct) held at least some sort of religious beliefs. This is shown by evidence of funerals held by them, implying a belief in an afterlife. I'll find a source if you want me to, but I'd rather not if you're willing to trust me.

[lord_carbo]

Originally Posted by Boatz

If all primitive men were just halfway in the process of evolution

"In the making? Unfinished? Only with the unwisdom of hindsight. In excuse of that book it is probably true that, were we to meet a Homo erectus face to face, it might well look to our eyes like an unfinished sculpture in the making. But that is only because we are looking with human hindsight. A living creature is always in the business of surviving on its own environment. It is never unfinished -- or, in another sense, it is always unfinished. So, presumably, are we."

Dawkins

[jewpinthethird]

Originally Posted by Boatz

If all primitive men were just halfway in the process of evolution, I really don't think they would have the cranial capacity to understand the concept of religion. They probably just found the prettiest thing they could find and worship it.

Primitive man may have been primitive, but he wasn't stupid. Biologically, modern man and primitive man aren't all that different***. Man didn't worship inane pretty things, just those things that he was dependent on, like the sun, and spring rains. All the ancient religions had strong ties to Astrology (this is found all over the globe, from Egypt, to China, to Mesoamerica) because Astrology was a way of keeping time, so that the citizens would know when to plant, or harvest their food and this tradition of astrologically based polytheism lasted up until the Roman Church adopted Christianity. Judaism has been around for a long time, but Judaism was confined to a small ethnic group...the Jews, and outsiders weren't welcome.

But hold on a sec, Jewp...do all religions focus around a God? No.
Many Eastern religions are atheistic, instead focusing on the majesty of nature, and training the mind and body to be in tune with nature. Other Eastern religions focus around an invisible "force" of nature in which all things are connected (sup, George Lucas). I guess this would be the equivalent of paganism in the Western World (technically, all non-Abrahamic religions are pagan).

Although to be fair, I don't understand the point of religion either. What's the point? What's the point of letting a huge authority figure - and here's the kicker - who MAY NOT exist choose all of the rules and tell us how to live our lives? That's just human weakness. Freud is dead right.

Well, by allowing an authority figure to have control over your life, you are submitting to something higher than yourself. It gives your life a new meaning if you aren't living it for yourself, but instead as a slave to a God who will reward you for living a good life. Doesn't sound too bad to me. Most religions put emphasis on family values and community spirit, and selfless cooperation. Altruism is rewarded. While they may differ on certain cultural aspects, all religions are inherently the same. Let's face it, Religion, more than anything, has had the biggest affect on secular life. Our constitution was based on Judaic law. And I doubt many people disagree with the Ten Commandments. Religion sets forth the basic rules for people to govern themselves (before government, there was religion).

The problem with religion is that it is SO GOD DAMN EASY TO EXPLOIT (see: the entire history of the Roman Catholic Church up until the Protestant Reformation). Today, Islamic fundamentalists are using religion to fuel a war against the "Western invaders" (and rightly so, the West has done nothing but rape the Middle East of it's natural resources...not to mention the mass murders and the stealing of the Holy land commissioned by the Catholic Church [see: Crusades], thanks for ruining the world Catholicism).

*** Our common ancestors didn't have religion...like Homo erectus and Homo neanderthal. How do we know this? Because religion requires creative, symbolic thought, something only Homo sapiens were capable of. Cave paintings weren't created by cavemen, but by ancient "modern humans." Homo sapiens were able to take over the globe in such a short period of time (for creatures as large was we are) because we are able to adapt culturally, as opposed to waiting for natural selection to take its course. Cold weather? Put on a jacket. Raining? Built a shelter. Predators around? Build yourself a weapon. This was how man was able to survive for so long, because we have the ability to adapt ourselves to the environment instantaneous, that is why we don't see descendants of neaderthals walking around (however, some people believe Homo sapiens interbreeded with Neanderthals...but that's still speculation).

[burningeyes88]

I believe in science over anything and if you believe in God I don't care, you can believe what you what, I just thing he does not exist, also the thought of a higher power that runs our life and can kill us when ever he wants just sounds unbelieveable to me. I think religion was just a way for people in older times to explain things they couldn't explain themselves. I am sorry if I repeated anything anyone said, I didnt bother to check this entire thread.