So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

[Gundam-Dude]

Good read and covers pretty much my ideals for present day SM.

I'll admit, I was a try-hard and wanted to be recognized as a PoPuLaR simfile author like QED but along the lines of the eLiTiST spectrum with all that Dark and Light Chancellor bullshit. When I finally did get "recognized" as some elitist new school simfile author, I realized that I'm not satisfied at all. On the contrary, I've learned that being elitist about the way simfiles are stepped is absolute bullshit and goes absolutely no where. And in the end, I don't even like more than half of the stuff that's being produced nowadays but I rarely do I ever complain.

Back in 2009/2010 I shared the close-minded ideal that "-this- simfile should be stepped in -this- method" but there are just so many ways to layer and represent a song that it's nearly impossible to choose one, single way to do it without completely re-stepping it as your own file to please -your- ideals. Having judged for several megapacks throughout the years, I learned that almost every single individual that plays SM has their own preference and criteria as to what designates a "good" file, which creates a huge inconsistency and confusion as to how a song "should be stepped". Playing and reviewing countless files from different simfile authors from communities all over the place also helped open up my viewpoint towards simfile making as it has shown me that there really is no -correct- way to step a file because everyone has their own unique preference and criteria. It's also impossible to make a simfile pack everyone will enjoy; there will always be people who dislike files and packs regardless.

Present day, I'm very open minded to different ways to step and represent any song and I'm quite carefree and lenient with judging/reviewing. I see no reason to enforce any sort of elitism onto people because as I mentioned there is no -correct- way to step. I couldn't care less about being 200% technically correct because I myself break -technical- stepping conventions in order to make songs more interesting to play. As long as the file is fun and interesting to play, that's all that really matters to me nowadays. As an example, I can outright say that I like every single file in LCP3 (this is why you didn't see me post a public review when the pack released. I can honestly, wholeheartedly say that I enjoy every single file in the pack, some more than others, but that's already an impressive feat itself). If you thought that there was some sort of elitist criteria used to determine what files were pack-worthy, you're wrong. I judged the pack solely based on fun/interesting factor and what was the result? A large pack that has gotten quite good feedback with tons of variety in song choice and diversity. Sure, the pack name itself still contributes to the so-called elitist spectrum and it only encompassed a select group of people, but the point of it was to give a starting point to break that -set standard- of elitism by appealing to a larger majority as opposed to a small inner circle of elitist circlejerkers. It's also part of the reason as to why I made the decision to disband the LiGHT CHaNCeLLoRS after pack release (I was completely serious. LC is dead for good).

To put it simply, I'm tired of elitist bullshit and don't see a point in dividing up communities even further by isolating a small inner circle of simfile authors when pretty much anyone can make a file that people would enjoy, even appealing to a larger demographic than any elitists (see QED). Step files to appeal to yourself and to match your criteria as to what designates a "fun and interesting" file. If others like your file, that's just an added bonus knowing that you're not the only person that likes it. Also, be aware that it's nearly impossible to appeal to every single person on the planet; there will always be people that will dislike your file so you should learn to cope with that.

On the topic of QED, I couldn't care less about the way in which he chooses to step. The only problem with him is that he's way too passive-aggressive and emotional about his viewpoint towards how simfiles should be stepped.

[ddrxero64]

LCP 3 has gotten some of the best reviews I've seen for a while. All kinds of players said they enjoyed, so I'm glad you shared that. All of this really has to be redefined if this community is to expand again.

[Jousway]

k thanks for proving me again that you are an idiot ddrxero thinking I was trolling, I already putted you on my ignore list age's ago but I thought about just reading your posts in this thread because I was serious in this thread, sorry for thinking one moment that your brains are good enough to even understand what I was saying, oh well I'll never read your posts again, have fun

[ddrxero64]

Originally Posted by Jousway

k thanks for proving me again that you are an idiot ddrxero thinking I was trolling, I already putted you on my ignore list age's ago but I thought about just reading your posts in this thread because I was serious in this thread, sorry for thinking one moment that your brains are good enough to even understand what I was saying, oh well I'll never read your posts again, have fun

I'll create a subforum for you on SMO, where it's all about you. Feeling sorry for you, trying to have sympathy for you, putting a topic that has nothing to do with you based on you, and you can argue with yourself all you want. As a matter of fact, I'll create a special group where only you'll see the forum, so that way it can really be all about you and how you are the center of all threads.

Back on topic.

I plan to start stepping again and forget any other tasks I have for now. I might as well seeing that my retirement might be closer than I thought. Maybe this can add to the files that aren't always technically correct but still fun.

[Jousway]

also you guys are like "dont defend QED" and "QED is an elites whore" or w/e but take a look at some of the posts of QED on ffr we all know he was going around saying he is an elite and everything because according to his logic he was right, most people have this, like 90% of the world is arrogant and thinks every thing they do is best, QED stepped his way and that was good, you guy's disagreed with his stepping and tried to help him but he rejected your offers and said you were wrong, like look at this http://forums.animeboston.com/showpost.php?post/203370/
like I said before QED wasnt wrong, you guys wernt wrong because who can define the right way to step files, there is no right or wrong way, like its an bloody game, but every time I see people going QED is wrong, you know what, believe what you want, believe that every file on here is the best, OD people, believe that you made the best files, but still QED got a giant fan group that support him because they like his files, even if they are wrong acording to ffr standards, I'm not suporting him or anything, I'm just saying, both sides weren't wrong, and in the end QED just gave up and left because you all started to toll the **** out of him

edit: also forgot to say but you guys keep saying QED has an massive ego, well put yourself in his shoes, you want to make files fun in your own way, people try to give you help and you reject them and they all start to troll the shit out of you, how would you react if that happend to you, just think about that

[Lain_Iwakura]

tl;dr qed doesnt take criticism and it was a bad idea for him to do a stepmania panel

nick was legitimately high when he wrote that post by the way

[Kraezymann]

I don't even know who he is

But at least I know I should finally play LCP3

[Patashu]

by the way super meat boy pack is now at over 1600 downloads

[i love you]

Very good read. Been thinking about what nick said for hours and now i think I'm going to try and support the beginner players somehow. (After i finish like 5 more packs or something)

@Patashu: Wow o_o

[xferrarix]

This thread is really deep for something concerning a stepper I've never heard of and Stepmania in general. Very interesting read from most of the posts so far. My opinion really is how we perceive stepping. On FFR we're technical and if your file doesn't completely follow those guidelines then it's not considered good unless it's a "fun" file. I see that QED is a very different person from other people within these communities.

Most opinions are biased within the world today; let's consider art for example. One man may buy the weirdest piece of art imaginable for thousands of dollars because he sees beauty in it. Another may look at it and find it to be worth nothing more than a dollar. The relation to Stepmania and how we see it is obvious at this point: everyone has their own opinions that we can't really change. QED, from what I've read, sounds to have an incredibly huge ego when it comes to his stepfiles. He takes no opinions from anyone from here or really any other Stepmania players. Yes, I just made a relation to the real world to Stepmania. Shoot me some other time

There's positives and negatives to that. The people who enjoy his files now will continue to enjoy them because his style will never change or shift. The negatives are that, on this side of Stepmania, we won't ever like his files. Sorry if I stated a lot of obvious things that were already clarified. I'm only trying to bring a small view to light that not every person who plays this game will see it as people over here do. To be completely honest if I showed my friend who knows nothing about this game he'd even consider QED to be a good step maker. Then if I showed him a file from, let's say any file in the Light Chancellor Pack 3, he'd make a quick comment about the difficulty and won't bother playing it.

I can tell from Stepmania trends lately that people are leaning towards files with many difficulties. In the future I think most files should follow that in order that we can attract more Dance Dance Revolution enthusiasts and other rhythm game fans into Stepmania. It really is a good game for people into that sort of thing, and for most people to not get into it because of "one hard file" is what is dragging this game down.

[who_cares973]

im in the same boat as gundam dude.

man im getting all riled up i feel a long post coming on

[codcrille]

Good post., but who is QED?

[xferrarix]

He's a stepartist who came to FFR claiming to be "one of the best" and put a load of his files here on the simfileDB. They were all given really bad reviews, he told FFR he's the best and no one can change that, and then questioned everyone else's sense of stepping. Basically he was a guy with a huge ego with Stepmania who couldn't take a bad critique on one of his files.

[Patashu]

Originally Posted by codcrille

Good post., but who is QED?

you should look at QED's files on youtube and come to your own decisions. don't let other people do your thinking

[Jousway]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

man im getting all riled up i feel a long post coming on

I'll give you one because I want people to realize this,

The reason stepmania is dying

first of lets look at these people that are saying stepmania is dying, people from OD, FFR, KBO and Xoon, want to know why, because the amount of people quiting and leaving is bigger than the amount of people joining, I'm not talking about only the people that play files but also the people that make files, want to know why, well if you look at it its quite simple.
for example lets take a look at the these comunites really well and take a look at which point people started to leave and when people started to say stepmania was dying.
if you look at it, it started all after the so called "expressive files" started to be created, like look at this example I made of the OD files


Anime files are an great example of what happens when you try to make them technical, what happens is, anime files are simple and have usally the same pattern over and over and over, with only the lyrics having some differences.
when you try to make that in to an technical file you get the same problem as what happened to OD, your files get boring and not fun, what happened on OD was when they released odmix that people were going around saying "new ODmix files suck, ODanime is better" http://smallnsoft.com/od/forums/inde...ic,1556.0.html , I understood the reason why, but what I saw happening at OD was instead of trying to recreate ODanime they took ODMIX, added these new bunch of rules and easier diff's, some of you might call it a good step but in the end it wasn't that good, ofcourse people are happy that ODanime came back but the problem is, its still technical over fun factor.

Like lets get to the ground of this, why is stepmania dying in the first place, or I should actually say, why are these stepmania communities dying, its because of the same problem you have on KBO, Xoon (even tough its gone now), FFR, and OD, it all starts here http://www.keybeatonline.com/forums/...ead.php?t=2435 yes the Stepmania/KBO Terminology, the new stepmania files made by these community's all follow these rules, well now thing about this, you are an new player and do you think you would care about PR, how to make an stream and loads more, like do you remember why you started sm, I do, it was because I saw a rhythm game were I could make my own music and have "fun", when it comes down to new people fun is the most important aspect in an file, they want enjoyment, not expressive layering, like look at the last few packs that got released on KBO, FFR, and Xoon, which one of them is actually beginner friendly, maybe there are some here and there, but they are still technical, when I want to play an file as an beginner I would like to enjoy the music while hitting notes that fit, I dont care if its 100%, the reason people started to play sm is fun, not to recreate playing an guitar or piano on an keyboard, so you have people creating files in their own way for their own enjoyment, like it fits to their logic, and what do you get, the same problem as what happend to QED, their files get plain rejected, so people see this, and see other people posting files on forums, and what happens people get rejected, people get upset, and go around saying "troll community's" the best way to call it is "closed community's".

what happens in the end is people come together make and way of stepping files what they called "the right way" people join these community's, get rejected and leave, because files are so technical, and an problem with technical files are ofcourse the way to step them, so congratulation's stepmania changed from an ddr simulator to and DnB/Dubstep simulator, ever pack these day from KBO or FFR has atleast 1 Dubstep file, you cant deny it.

There are atm no new files for people to actually attract them in to stepmania files from OD, KBO or FFR, created by you guys, so what chances do they have, what do they do, well their choice is obvious, if you dont get it at this point let me show you.

and thats why he has an gigantic fan based people that just started sm and you guys dont.

[who_cares973]

why do people keep using ODmix files as examples. ive yet to play or download any OD pack so im not getting any reference

[sakura080789]

reading more and more of this thread just says one thing: Play The Files You Enjoy Playing. there are packs/sm artists out there who make files that are not "Color Theory/Complicated/Expressive type" even if you can't step a song that you want that may be simple easy old school kb style someone might step it for you.

[Jousway]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

why do people keep using ODmix files as examples. ive yet to play or download any OD pack so im not getting any reference

well in short the original OD files were like almost no technical, even worse than QED files, like random notes every were, but they were still more famous then an pack brought out by OD some time ago, OD thought it was because of the difficulty the steps were, but the reason is that its just to technical, and you know what anime songs are like right, there are only an few you can actually step technical/expressive, so making an expressive anime pack like that for new players is bound to fail, they tried to make an new mix called OD6, and its like ODmix but with some changes like its.. just check it out for your self, you'll understand.

edit: also if you look at osu, its just some round things, ofcourse you can make an expressive way how to place it which is almost unlimited so it doesnt have the same problem as stepmania only limited to 4 keys, so switching to 6 keys is an good idea but not for new players that just started 4 keys, you cant force them to 6 keys

[ddrxero64]

Originally Posted by Lain_Iwakura

tl;dr qed doesnt take criticism and it was a bad idea for him to do a stepmania panel

nick was legitimately high when he wrote that post by the way

^This. It's one thing to say you have good files, it's another to say everyone else has bad ones. I repeat myself, he had a beta tester for his files call out the veteran simfile artists. He also has a German guy preparing his files because he isn't good enough to do them himself. Who needs two assistants to make their own files? He doesn't represent his fans when he says he makes fun files, he's representing the entire SM community, as if EVERYONE enjoys his files.

Originally Posted by Patashu

by the way super meat boy pack is now at over 1600 downloads

Nice, let make it 1601. I just got this computer, I forgot to download it.

Originally Posted by Jousway

Everything + unnecessary chart

for the tl;dr people: OD 2-4 were more fun because most of the charts were easier and were made around 2008, where SM and SMO peaked in popularity beyond control of OD.

It really has nothing to do with OD's members, other than the bar wasn't raised in terms of difficulty and most of the files were enjoyable to play. OD 3rd Anime Mix is my favorite to this day, it is legitimately the first pack I've ever downloaded to play on SMO back in August of 2009.

Also Jousway, you just said OD's files were worse than QED's. Who made you an expert on stepping? You're no worse than the people who judge on a technical aspect. We're arguing that neither judging is right, not that QED's view is right. You're really not arguing for the topic at hand, more for one of QED's fanboys. I'm sure you would've been up on that panel preparing files for him if he asked you to. Guy flies all the way from Germany just to come to an SM workshop in Boston. Really sad, gotta give him props, he can manipulate a situation very well. Needs to learn how to control his emotions though, he couldn't keep his composure when I was around disproving his attacks on the community.

[ddrxero64]

I asked myself, what kind of file would appeal the largest crowd? It's known that no one file will be liked by all, but what files can get the most appeal to the general crowd?

I started thinking of files we all know. Of course people will say they're overplayed, but that's the point. Because every community and player of all skill, style, and preference seems to like them.

Ageha is definitely overplayed. The thing is it's because it was in a lot of packs. It's actually hard for new players, and the pad community wouldn't like it.

Quasar is definitely overplayed, but it's too easy for spread and most hardcore index players. Not to mention the song itself isn't exciting.

Then I remembered Uber Rave by Joe. A lot of people know and play this file. if you download the original file, there's actually a text document by the simfile artist himself. It says the file was created to please both spread and index, which seems impossible. It would have to be streamy, but he definitely succeeded. I see a lot of spread players enjoying thing file as much as index players do. Even pad players who play ITG seems to enjoy this file. MegamanPtt, primarily a DDR player, played this song as well and enjoyed it.

So now what is it about the file that everyone seems to like or have liked? Well for one, it's a catchy tune. Not too long, but not short. Basic BPM of 175, very streamy and simple patterns. Well synced and single BPM, and barely any room for stupid error. MA file to be honest, which everyone seems to enjoy.

So what would it take to recreate this file on another song? When I say recreate I mean appeal to the largest crowd. To appeal to pad, index, and spread. That is DEFINITELY tough.

I found a song that could be reasonable. I stepped it and recorded it. I noticed that even Uber Rave is hard for some players, and at 12 I don't blame them. This one is 140 BPM as opposed to 175. If I remember correctly, calimist's 1 hr 54 min challenge was 140 BPM stream. I stepped it with the goal of appealing and bridging the gap between new players and old players. Of course old players can pass it easily, so the length will give them a bit more challenge in AAA/AAAA'ng it. As for new players, most of them can handle it and might like it. It's quite paddable as well. I myself don't like the file, and it's more of a draft, but this is to show you. I do have some questions at the end for whoever is interested to answer.

I also completely disregarded technical stuff. Pitch relevancy, layering, matching actual instruments, etc. It's all been thrown out the window. I actually don't like this chart at all, if it was meant for index it would have been stepped differently. TRUST ME. Anyway, here's the video. Found song, created simfile in about an hour or two.

1) Would you play this file? If so, how playable would it be in terms of a week from now?A month? A year? If not, what is it about the file you don't like? Technical opinions, difficulty, length, certain patterns, etc.

2) Do you like the song choice? Is it something you'd actually listen to outside of SM (if you need a link, let me know, there are claps)? How attractice is the song in terms of new players?

3) How well do you think this file covers middle ground in terms of skilled players, from completely new players to veterans? How well does it cover middle ground in terms of style (pad, index, spread, etc.)? How well do you think it appeals to the general SM crowd overall?

Also, if you need the file, no problem. I can send it. It's not uploaded because it's not an official release. It doesn't belong with my index or pad files. I don't even like it, but if you want it I can send it to you.