Black holes.......why are they present anyways?

Chocoborider29 · 01-28-2005, 08:58 PM

I really ponder on why and how black holes are present. How did we figure out about anti-matter....ummm...material. I would like some facts if anyone can PLEASE HELP ME!!

jewpinthethird · 01-28-2005, 09:01 PM

I dont know exactly what cause them, but it involves a large star imploding to a tiny size and the mass being so great that it actually creates a pocket in space...or something to that effect.

Chocoborider29 · 01-28-2005, 09:04 PM

thank you kindly and I love the "unicorn power" joke lol. pretty good.

**Tasselfoot** · 01-28-2005, 09:09 PM

I do greatly enjoy how so many people have recently come to CT asking about Astrophysics. What I don't like is that they are asking the most basic questions possible. How did those of us who were interested in this topic learn about it? We read books on it.

Clearly, the bible of basic Astro knowledge is Hawking's A Brief History of Time. There are plenty of more advanced books, but that is definately where you should start if you are interested in Astrophysics and black holes.

To answer your question as simply as possible, black holes form based on the size of the star that created them. I can't recall the exact numbers off the top of my head, but I believe they are something to the nature of:

Up to 2 SM (Solar Masses) = Shrinks to White Dwarf and dies
2 SM to 4 SM = Implodes into Supernova
Greater than 4SM = Implodes into Black Hole

Another interesting book on the matter that you should check out if you enjoyed and understood ABHoT is Black Holes and Time Warps by Kip Thorne.

Hope this helps. I'm always happy to discuss and answer questions relating to Astrophysics, although I do wish that people would research the subject a little themselves first. Google can provide many good resources as well.

CypherToorima · 01-28-2005, 09:11 PM

Actually, a Black Hole accurs[sp?] when a star about , i'm not exactly sure, but either 20 or 100 times the size of the sun basically collapses on itself (many factors go into that) and you are left with a super dense mass in which light cannot escape. Black holes aren't actually holes, they just are...well...black super dense masses. Anti-Matter is something completely different.

[edit] it seems as though Tass beat me to it.

Matthew4444 · 01-28-2005, 09:22 PM

So then you can't actually go through a black hole. Since a black hole is just a clump of matter so heavy nothing can escape its gravity. Trying to go through a black hole will just result in destruction from impact (assuming you survive that long). So then there might be a lot of misconception about black holes being worm holes; unless I myself am mistaken, making this just a rant. But why I never realized that sooner troubles me.

**Tasselfoot** · 01-28-2005, 09:28 PM

Cypher, its hard to describe exactly what a black hole is, since you can't see one. Anything that gets within its event horizon (there is an exact formula to determine the radius of an even horizon of a black hole that can be found in any physics textbook) is lost to sight. What is used to describe what they "are" is called a singularity. It is the center of a black hole, its ultra-dense core. Whether it is merely a point, a ball, or nothing itself, we'll never know. Even better when thinking about black holes is to picture them as a spiraling downward cone. it starts wide at the top, then gets smaller and smaller, geometrically, the farther down it goes. This model works well because of how black holes change gravity. As I'm not an expert in this matter, I don't think I can get into much more detail on the matter, although the books I suggested will talk about it and explain it better than I.

On the subject of anti-matter, about the only thing that comes to mind is that it can be created in particle accelerators.

Edit: Matthew, wormholes do not exist. They are complete theory. What I've read on the subject is quite complex and interesting. The thought is that this stuff called... shoot. something foam, I can't remember what it is called. But, this stuff is EXTREMELY small. Like, 10^-30m in size. Nearing the Plank size (around 10^-36, i believe. the smallest anything can possibly be). Now, picture this stuff as little waves, that if you went inside them you would come out somewhere else on the other side. Now, the energy required to make enough of this stuff big enough to use would be WAY too great. Also, it is just a theory.

Another theory would be using the above mentioned anti-matter to keep a "wormhole" open. Assuming that we could get to one. The supposed amount of anti-matter needed to keep open a wormhole big enough for a person to go through would be the mass of Jupiter.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but I learned all of this stuff through the books I mentioned above.

Chocoborider29 · 01-29-2005, 11:52 AM

I thank you for your help, and I think I know what A black hole is now.

Mychilli · 01-29-2005, 09:28 PM

i believed someones siggy long ago said.
"a blackhole is here God divided by zero"

Lupin_the_3rd · 01-30-2005, 12:08 PM

The thought is that this stuff called... shoot. something foam, I can't remember what it is called.

quantum foam? That was the basis of the book Timeline by Crichton. It mainly dealt with using the theory of light waves canceling each other out, and the those recesses being lost to wormholes or something...It's been a while since I've read it.

GuidoHunter · 01-30-2005, 07:32 PM

Lupin, Michael Crichton is *not* a quantum physicist. Basically, for anyone who's at all interested in asking any more questions related to this topic, read what Tass had to say or ask me. Or Kefit, as he's actually taking classes on the matter and not just reading for enjoyment.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Lupin_the_3rd · 01-30-2005, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

Lupin, Michael Crichton is *not* a quantum physicist. Basically, for anyone who's at all interested in asking any more questions related to this topic, read what Tass had to say or ask me. Or Kefit, as he's actually taking classes on the matter and not just reading for enjoyment.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Crichton did hours of research before talking about quantum physics. I'm not telling them to read Timeline for inspiration, I was just trying to relate it to what has been said about theoretical wormholes.

**Tasselfoot** · 01-30-2005, 11:26 PM

Yes, I was referring to Quantum Foam.

And, I am jealous of Kefit. I have to wait until next semester before taking my Astrophysics course.

01-28-2005, 08:58 PM	#1
Chocoborider29 FFR Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 99	Black holes.......why are they present anyways? I really ponder on why and how black holes are present. How did we figure out about anti-matter....ummm...material. I would like some facts if anyone can PLEASE HELP ME!!

01-28-2005, 09:01 PM	#2
jewpinthethird (The Fat's Sabobah) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 11,711	RE: Black holes.......why are they present anyways? I dont know exactly what cause them, but it involves a large star imploding to a tiny size and the mass being so great that it actually creates a pocket in space...or something to that effect.

01-28-2005, 09:04 PM	#3
Chocoborider29 FFR Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 99	RE: Black holes.......why are they present anyways? thank you kindly and I love the "unicorn power" joke lol. pretty good.

01-28-2005, 09:09 PM	#4
Tasselfoot Retired BOSS Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Widget Heaven Age: 40 Posts: 25,184	RE: Black holes.......why are they present anyways? I do greatly enjoy how so many people have recently come to CT asking about Astrophysics. What I don't like is that they are asking the most basic questions possible. How did those of us who were interested in this topic learn about it? We read books on it. Clearly, the bible of basic Astro knowledge is Hawking's A Brief History of Time. There are plenty of more advanced books, but that is definately where you should start if you are interested in Astrophysics and black holes. To answer your question as simply as possible, black holes form based on the size of the star that created them. I can't recall the exact numbers off the top of my head, but I believe they are something to the nature of: Up to 2 SM (Solar Masses) = Shrinks to White Dwarf and dies 2 SM to 4 SM = Implodes into Supernova Greater than 4SM = Implodes into Black Hole Another interesting book on the matter that you should check out if you enjoyed and understood ABHoT is Black Holes and Time Warps by Kip Thorne. Hope this helps. I'm always happy to discuss and answer questions relating to Astrophysics, although I do wish that people would research the subject a little themselves first. Google can provide many good resources as well. __________________ RIP

01-28-2005, 09:11 PM	#5
CypherToorima Boss of all bosses Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phone Home! Age: 35 Posts: 2,452	RE: Black holes.......why are they present anyways? Actually, a Black Hole accurs[sp?] when a star about , i'm not exactly sure, but either 20 or 100 times the size of the sun basically collapses on itself (many factors go into that) and you are left with a super dense mass in which light cannot escape. Black holes aren't actually holes, they just are...well...black super dense masses. Anti-Matter is something completely different. [edit] it seems as though Tass beat me to it. __________________ I'm a figantic gaggot

01-28-2005, 09:22 PM	#6
Matthew4444 FFR Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 139	RE: Black holes.......why are they present anyways? So then you can't actually go through a black hole. Since a black hole is just a clump of matter so heavy nothing can escape its gravity. Trying to go through a black hole will just result in destruction from impact (assuming you survive that long). So then there might be a lot of misconception about black holes being worm holes; unless I myself am mistaken, making this just a rant. But why I never realized that sooner troubles me. __________________ postcount += 1 I am also known as TheDarkNerd, if that makes any difference.

01-28-2005, 09:28 PM	#7
Tasselfoot Retired BOSS Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Widget Heaven Age: 40 Posts: 25,184	RE: Black holes.......why are they present anyways? Cypher, its hard to describe exactly what a black hole is, since you can't see one. Anything that gets within its event horizon (there is an exact formula to determine the radius of an even horizon of a black hole that can be found in any physics textbook) is lost to sight. What is used to describe what they "are" is called a singularity. It is the center of a black hole, its ultra-dense core. Whether it is merely a point, a ball, or nothing itself, we'll never know. Even better when thinking about black holes is to picture them as a spiraling downward cone. it starts wide at the top, then gets smaller and smaller, geometrically, the farther down it goes. This model works well because of how black holes change gravity. As I'm not an expert in this matter, I don't think I can get into much more detail on the matter, although the books I suggested will talk about it and explain it better than I. On the subject of anti-matter, about the only thing that comes to mind is that it can be created in particle accelerators. Edit: Matthew, wormholes do not exist. They are complete theory. What I've read on the subject is quite complex and interesting. The thought is that this stuff called... shoot. something foam, I can't remember what it is called. But, this stuff is EXTREMELY small. Like, 10^-30m in size. Nearing the Plank size (around 10^-36, i believe. the smallest anything can possibly be). Now, picture this stuff as little waves, that if you went inside them you would come out somewhere else on the other side. Now, the energy required to make enough of this stuff big enough to use would be WAY too great. Also, it is just a theory. Another theory would be using the above mentioned anti-matter to keep a "wormhole" open. Assuming that we could get to one. The supposed amount of anti-matter needed to keep open a wormhole big enough for a person to go through would be the mass of Jupiter. I hate to sound like a broken record, but I learned all of this stuff through the books I mentioned above. __________________ RIP

01-29-2005, 11:52 AM	#8
Chocoborider29 FFR Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 99	RE: Black holes.......why are they present anyways? I thank you for your help, and I think I know what A black hole is now.

01-29-2005, 09:28 PM	#9
Mychilli FFR Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: ^ _ ^ Age: 34 Posts: 555	RE: Black holes.......why are they present anyways? i believed someones siggy long ago said. "a blackhole is here God divided by zero" __________________

01-30-2005, 12:08 PM	#10
Lupin_the_3rd FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,665	RE: Black holes.......why are they present anyways? The thought is that this stuff called... shoot. something foam, I can't remember what it is called. quantum foam? That was the basis of the book Timeline by Crichton. It mainly dealt with using the theory of light waves canceling each other out, and the those recesses being lost to wormholes or something...It's been a while since I've read it.

01-30-2005, 11:26 PM	#13
Tasselfoot Retired BOSS Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Widget Heaven Age: 40 Posts: 25,184	Yes, I was referring to Quantum Foam. And, I am jealous of Kefit. I have to wait until next semester before taking my Astrophysics course. __________________ RIP

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)