Official Tier Point System Thread

[psychoangel691]

The personal attacks really do just need to stop there's no reason for it. If you feel like tier points should be one way or another just state your opinions/ideas whatever and leave out the personal attacks at people. A lot of people have done it here but lets just stop it okay?

I still stand by that I think tiers should include more of the players on the site. Right now the way they are it's like you have to be the top 2% on the site or something it's just too extreme.

[kmay]

@halogen

i never said you ever disrespected a new player. but i sure as hell saw what kind of person you can be in the chat.


about it not being right.

whats not right about it? that it isn't all inclusive? (sorry for all the sport talk i dont know much about them, but they are very good to use for refrences) lets say i played in the major leagues, but i wasn't ever the best and did nothing outstanding. does that mean i should be in the hall of fame? no.

kmay=lower level player. like i said you are not going to use that against me. im not the lowest but i still cant consisitantly combo FMO/FGO's

FFR has <800 songs. why can't anyone play all the songs? FCing doesn't matter at all.

the TP's were made to be more stict for the same reason not every FMO unlocks ONI. People are getting better and changes need to be made to keep everyone on the top of their games.

[bmah]

I think that what's going on here is that we're going to change the purpose of tier points. Their original intention may have been to cater to the recognition of higher-leveled players, but I think it is for the better that we shift the goal of tier points to one that would encourage more active participation of the community. There have been many postulations on how to go about this while satisfying top-end players as well.

I think that there's a lot of debate because people are confused at why tier points exist. The take home message is that I think we're heading in a better direction to change the purpose of having tier points.

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

The personal attacks really do just need to stop there's no reason for it. If you feel like tier points should be one way or another just state your opinions/ideas whatever and leave out the personal attacks at people. A lot of people have done it here but lets just stop it okay?

I still stand by that I think tiers should include more of the players on the site. Right now the way they are it's like you have to be the top 2% on the site or something it's just too extreme.

Tried that and see what it has turned into. =\

[i love you]

Originally Posted by bmah

I think that what's going on here is that we're going to change the purpose of tier points. Their original intention may have been to cater to the recognition of higher-leveled players, but I think it is for the better that we shift the goal of tier points to one that would encourage more active participation of the community. There have been many postulations on how to go about this while satisfying top-end players as well.

I think that there's a lot of debate because people are confused at why tier points exist. The take home message is that I think we're heading in a better direction to change the purpose of having tier points.

Couldn't agree more with this. It's nice that people are now having different, if not better thoughts about improving this tier point system

[KotHN]

Originally Posted by iironiic

What if Rubix can AAA everything once, and fail to SDG every song after obtaining that AAA? Can we still call him a pro player?.

Yup. No one's forced to play on any sort of regular basis, and it's hard to monitor everyone's daily skill, so I think achievements are the most accurate form of measuring skill. Feel free to change the definition of pro, but if he's done it once, he's pro.

Also, Halogen, just because kmay is against the idea of changing tier points, doesn't mean he has anything against helping new players. I'm against changing tier points, but I think we should foster new players skill via other channels. Quite a big accusation on your part.

EDIT: +infinity to bmah

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Plan_Bsk81127

Tried that and see what it has turned into. =\

It's the way it was said though. That's not me trying to attack you or anything it's just that some people look at a post and are like man he's being really rude even if it wasn't your intention unfortunately text can be taken the wrong way. But in your post where you expressed your opinion it also basically came off as you calling lower players "sissies" (we'll use that word) because they didn't want to post in the ffr scores thread and also targeting people about wanting praise. It feels good to get noticed for your accomplishments I don't understand why it's a big deal that some of us like to hear hey nice job once in a while.

But seriously that's how the post came off which sparked people because they felt the need to defend themselves. No one on the site is ever going to agree 100% of course but I'm sure there's gotta be some compromise that can be made here to satisfy all.

[One Winged Angel]

bmah always manages to successfully deconstruct the issue at hand and state the underlying problem in a pleasant manner

...which I'll never be able to do because I can't articulate myself on the internet for the life of me

[qqwref]

I like iironiic's TP idea of making actual *tiers* with different songs per tier, and moving up when you can do well on the current songs. Mashing for TPs would be pretty much eliminated, because you wouldn't be able to move up if you have to mash the songs you have. There would be no point of non-FC requirements either, because by the time you unlock higher songs, you should be able to FC them. I suggest removing songs that are more than one tier below you, because at that point the easier songs should be trivial, and it's silly to consider them when determining skill.

The only real problem is that going from high 8s all the way up to high FGOs is a LOT of songs, and it's just crazy to make reqs for that many. I'd say the best way to solve this would be to only have some songs in the reqs - not the hardest 120 or whatever, but a selection of high8-low10, a selection of low10-low11, a selection of low11-low12, etc. This would let us get rid of some of the really annoying or hard-to-unlock songs too.


PS: The whole point of tiers is to determine who the best players are, and (more or less) in what order. It could be expanded to cater to players all the way down to casual people, but it would be a somewhat different thing once it is, and we have to decide whether we want to abandon something that only opens up when you become a good player.

[kmay]

and lol if we add more TPs the req's to make it to T4 would go up and they will still feel discouraged because they are not good enough to obtain T4.

[rushyrulz]

It wouldn't be all the 8-12s, just a hand-picked selection, qqwref.

@kmay: That's what the Amateur Scores thread is for. Funny how that works out.

[ichliebekase]

0-420 is noob.

Margin = 420

420-539 is pro.

Margin = 119

Putting something within the tier 5 level would be nice, like having approximately 120 points per tier gain.

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

It's the way it was said though. That's not me trying to attack you or anything it's just that some people look at a post and are like man he's being really rude even if it wasn't your intention unfortunately text can be taken the wrong way. But in your post where you expressed your opinion it also basically came off as you calling lower players "sissies" (we'll use that word) because they didn't want to post in the ffr scores thread and also targeting people about wanting praise. It feels good to get noticed for your accomplishments I don't understand why it's a big deal that some of us like to hear hey nice job once in a while.

But seriously that's how the post came off which sparked people because they felt the need to defend themselves. No one on the site is ever going to agree 100% of course but I'm sure there's gotta be some compromise that can be made here to satisfy all.

Well thats because Im not going to sit there and sweet talk my posts out. I get straight to my point. That probably is what puts the negative tone on it which I dont intend to do, but I dont like making my posts all mushy mushy, I say what I have to say and leave it at that. =\

And there is always people telling others good scores in the thread, but like I mentioned in the war about the scores thread, the lack of the effort for younger players to post their scores make it their scores be overtaken by the people who are posting actively which is the top players. People always expect a comment on their scores and when there isnt one they feel like they arent noticed. A score can be viewed and appreciated, doesnt need to be commented for it to be noticed.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by KotHN

Also, Halogen, just because kmay is against the idea of changing tier points, doesn't mean he has anything against helping new players. I'm against changing tier points, but I think we should foster new players skill via other channels. Quite a big accusation on your part.

EDIT: +infinity to bmah

How so? Him responding the way he did below shows that he just wants to keep the list since no one was there to encourage him or aid him and give him motivation. Not an accusation, but more of an implied point.

referring to:

ok i agree with Corey. Who the hell was there when I was an average player? when any of you were? No one was. Even in the last official where everyone was saying how I am going to win D3, no one encouraged me or complimented my scores.

He's also considering himself as "not a top player", but if the tier point system is "top players/elite players", then he's on it.

As I said before, the tier point list is way too geared toward the extremely high level players (you're talking at an exclusive group that's nowhere near 4 figures out of every single person who plays the game with an account). For it to be called a "tiered" list just isn't right because all that's being done is you're giving tiers to the "top players" on the site regardless. Those people with 9s/10s AAAs are doing what a huge majority of the players that actually have an account can't even dream of. They just don't realize it because these people aren't active in the forums/community/etc. - why do they deserve to be left in the dust? There's some players who have level 10/11 AAAs who have no posts in the forums whatsoever (like this one, and they are just as good) and have a low amount of tier points because they can't be bothered to knock all of the songs down. Granted, this person hasn't been on the site long, but does this mean that they shouldn't be worthy?

Those who don't play the game competitively or within the community still deserve recognition on songs that only a handful of people can do.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel

bmah always manages to successfully deconstruct the issue at hand and state the underlying problem in a pleasant manner

...which I'll never be able to do because I can't articulate myself on the internet for the life of me

<3 bmah

[Evnoir]

I'm not gonna lie, but I bet half of the newbies don't even know what TPs are.
Also +1 to Tier 5 suggestion.

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by Evnoir

I'm not gonna lie, but I bet half of the newbies don't even know what TPs are.
Also +1 to Tier 5 suggestion.

They don't know what TPs are now because it's too unfathomable. It would be more known if there were something they could achieve.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Evnoir

I'm not gonna lie, but I bet half of the newbies don't even know what TPs are.
Also +1 to Tier 5 suggestion.

It's heavily community-oriented; you have to look in the forums only to figure out that you have to play a ton of songs.

If something like this would be implemented as a display within profiles (like a tier point point display similar to points/MP level, etc. that would link to the tier page), people would notice it when viewing their profiles and wonder what it is.

[aperson]

How about instead of yelling at each other we take this in a productive direction.

Currently there are 120 songs that have Tier Points. The lowest value awarded for any one of them is 4 points. I think we have room to add more songs onto the lower difficulties that are worth 3, 2, or just 1 point. I think it would be reasonable if a handful of 10s were given 3 point scales for tier points, and some 8s and 9s were given 2 or 1 points.

If you agree with this, what are some 8s / 9s / 10s you would like to see included, what are the point requirements for them, and why?

If you disagree with this, what do you think we would do instead? Our goal here is simplicity and the ability to extend the range of players which can start earning skill points.

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

He's also considering himself as "not a top player", but if the tier point system is "top players/elite players", then he's on it.

I know what its like to be a low level player, obviously I have been there and I know from being there that I didnt worry about how well others did and what they had but instead worry more about improving myself. The lower level players have come to the point where like if we went back to when Otaku Oni token was released we would have a whole bitchfit thread on how its unfair that they have a token only top players can get. Nobody around here can be pleased anymore and its tweaking me to see that. =\

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Plan_Bsk81127

Well thats because Im not going to sit there and sweet talk my posts out. I get straight to my point. That probably is what puts the negative tone on it which I dont intend to do, but I dont like making my posts all mushy mushy, I say what I have to say and leave it at that. =\

And there is always people telling others good scores in the thread, but like I mentioned in the war about the scores thread, the lack of the effort for younger players to post their scores make it their scores be overtaken by the people who are posting actively which is the top players. People always expect a comment on their scores and when there isnt one they feel like they arent noticed. A score can be viewed and appreciated, doesnt need to be commented for it to be noticed.

I'm not saying be mushy, but if people feel like they are being attacked it's generally gonna start an argument. I usually try my best to get my point across but not "offend" either. It doesn't always work but hey we can only try our best.

The scores thread thing to me isn't really a big issue I mean so what if there's two threads now it's not hurting anything. And there were people trying to post their scores in the score thread but it was like everytime one of us lower people posted something someone was posting some OMG score. So it was kinda like a feeling of not belonging because there were always such amazing scores being posted that it felt like no one was going to notice these lower scores anyways. So people stopped posting there. Now the newer people have their thread where they're doing their thing and then there's still the FFR scores thread where whoever can post that feels like it.