FFR on Facebook?!

[21992]

Helllo people! ,

So is it time that FFR gets on to facebook in a serious manner? (I'm not talking about the time where it was down and someone created a flash on facebook) I'm talking about the swf. with multi-player support , along with a credit system of their own. Here's an example: http://uberstrike.cmune.com/?ReturnUrl=%2fPlay . Never knew about this game until it was on facebook.
Can this get some +1's?

[badman7772]

It depends on the difficulty to get that to happen. I'd +1 if it's not too hard. It would also get more people to join the actual site itself I think.

[TheSaxRunner05]

What, FFR a serious game?

[igotrhythm]

Judging from the numbers Zynga is posting, Facebook games /are/ serious business.

That being said, I don't think we want to do the same thing we did with Kongregate...that is, offer a "sampler" of levels with limited mods and tell them to go to the site for the full experience. That's not how FB works. It's all or nothing, plus a healthy dose of microtransactions and having to ask your friends for various power-ups.

I have a couple of ideas, but in any case there would have to be a serious re-tooling of the base game to make it fare better in the social media space.

[cedolad]

Widgets...

No.

[justin_ator]

I've discussed this with Velocity before and didn't get a whole lot of positive feedback on it. Mostly it's because Velocity has very little knowledge (not that I don't think he'd learn quick) on how coding apps on Facebook works, but also because of a few other issues:

1) Which engine do we provide on Facebook?
2) Full songlist would lose FFR traffic, would you do a sampler thing? How do we select songs?
3) Scores? Tying ffr accounts with Facebook scores seems like a stretch, and I doubt people will continue to use a Facebook game app that doesn't save scores (and how else do you get friends interested in a game other than scores to try to beat?)

The biggest issue is that we'd need someone focused on getting this project to work. Velocity is usually pretty busy with other stuff and I do doubt that he'd want to take this on. I've actually offered to look into the kind of sampling songlist we'd want to include on the site, something to get people with different skills and tastes interested, but didn't get much support so I decided to wait/not do it for the time being.

A facebook FFR app is definitely something I've been wanting to see though, don't get me wrong.

[Zageron]

I dislike flash after 8 months of trying to write a pc that doesn't suck.
Hope that helps.

[kylegusek]

Originally Posted by igotrhythm

Judging from the numbers Zynga is posting, Facebook games /are/ serious business.

That being said, I don't think we want to do the same thing we did with Kongregate...that is, offer a "sampler" of levels with limited mods and tell them to go to the site for the full experience. That's not how FB works. It's all or nothing, plus a healthy dose of microtransactions and having to ask your friends for various power-ups.

I have a couple of ideas, but in any case there would have to be a serious re-tooling of the base game to make it fare better in the social media space.

Ugh.. Micro-transactions and power-ups. Might as well add a cheesy avatar system to which you have to pay for items to dress up your character and a space to build a farm with the coins you earn from songs. While these implementations are what make Zynga so much money, it comepletely ruins the game.

Facebook integration is definitely the direction to go for the game to draw in more people, but the changes will have to be limited to not ruin the experience that is the current FFR.

It would be cool to see the use of using FFR logged in as your FB profile and a revamped scoring and multiplayer system to challenge friends, maybe like a 'play by mail' type to add to the current 1v1 gameplay. Wagering coins would be cool too.

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by justin_ator

2) Full songlist would lose FFR traffic, would you do a sampler thing? How do

Well wouldn't they still technically be accessing the engine through FFR anyway? I doubt the engine and it's levels would be uploaded to facebook or some other site (then again I may be wrong, I don't use facebook).

The only thing is that some sort of register feature would have to be implemented in the engine so they can save their scores and credits without navigating to the site at first. I feel like if you can sign up without having to leave the engine, it might make more people willing to register due to the simplicity and speed.

I also feel like it would be highly unconventional to have facebook have it's own method of score comparison / stat recording, and would in itself deter people from using FFR for this function. I suppose there could be a type of feature added where you could share a replay you just got through a status update or something, but aside from that the integration shouldn't be too drastic.

It would definitely bring in more members, but it would probably be a lot more work than people wish to dish out (especially with people doing site work so busy as it is already). It might be worth looking into down the road, but I doubt it will be considered anytime soon.

[justin_ator]

Originally Posted by kylegusek

Facebook integration is definitely the direction to go for the game to draw in more people, but the changes will have to be limited to not ruin the experience that is the current FFR.

Agreed, I don't think changes should be all too drastic overall in terms of what the game focuses on or allows. If the focus is directed towards those new, worthless things such as character customization, nobody will leave the facebook version for the real FFR anyway.

Originally Posted by kylegusek

It would be cool to see the use of using FFR logged in as your FB profile and a revamped scoring and multiplayer system to challenge friends, maybe like a 'play by mail' type to add to the current 1v1 gameplay. Wagering coins would be cool too.

While I agree the option to link your Facebook profile and your FFR profile/account would be a cool way to get it more popularity, I don't see this happening at all.

Originally Posted by foxfire667

Well wouldn't they still technically be accessing the engine through FFR anyway? I doubt the engine and it's levels would be uploaded to facebook or some other site

This is true, but all it takes is a different code set in the engine (you know this, I know you do) for it to load a different xml file for the slightly modified songlist or whatever.

Originally Posted by foxfire667

The only thing is that some sort of register feature would have to be implemented in the engine so they can save their scores and credits without navigating to the site at first. I feel like if you can sign up without having to leave the engine, it might make more people willing to register due to the simplicity and speed.

This is true, and with Velocity's partially working in-game login thing I bet with a little bit more effort he could implement one more option to register a new account from the game screen too.

Originally Posted by foxfire667

I also feel like it would be highly unconventional to have facebook have it's own method of score comparison / stat recording, and would in itself deter people from using FFR for this function. I suppose there could be a type of feature added where you could share a replay you just got through a status update or something, but aside from that the integration shouldn't be too drastic.

Thinking about it now, this could go hand in hand with the last point you made. If there is an option to register on the engine, then the scores on the songs could still be saved for your account. It could be advertised as like, hey, compare your stats to your friends on FFR on the set of songs you played on Facebook, but visit the actual site to play more songs and visit the forums/other parts of the site.

just my 2 cents


EDIT:

Also, if the minimized playlist only contains 20-50s, then you'll generate site traffic for those that decide to continue on in the game and play harder things.

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by justin_ator

This is true, but all it takes is a different code set in the engine (you know this, I know you do) for it to load a different xml file for the slightly modified song list or whatever.

Well of course, but let's assume that the project does go through and FFR did become a Facebook game. Obviously FFR by default loads the t-xmlfeedbacktest in order to get the song list for the engine, but I could imagine that Velocity would have no trouble coding the engine so it loads an alternate song list if the game is loaded through Facebook. So whereas opening it through standalone / FFR would yield the normal song list, but people loading it through Facebook would get a different file for the sample songs.

Worst case scenario is that the Facebook engine is put in a sub-directory from the main engine to load it's own song list. Especially considering that the FFR engines no longer rely on the levels folder to be in the same directory (since it uses some level php URL hash now instead), the traffic would still come to FFR. Different URL(s) I suppose, but traffic nonetheless.

Originally Posted by justin_ator

Also, if the minimized playlist only contains 20-50s, then you'll generate site traffic for those that decide to continue on in the game and play harder things.

That's very true, although I do believe some very easy songs should be part of the sample as well. People might get frustrated with the game if 20's are their first introduction to it. Remembering that even at the 20 difficulty there can be some intricate patterns for newcomers, I feel like showcasing 1-30's would be a better way to get people invested. This way people will be satisfied they have some songs they can practice basic patterns and timing with, as well as harder songs to look forward to as they get the hang of FFR. This of course would also fall into play with what you said about those who wish to improve their skills and go to FFR instead of Facebook to play, except with less necessary skill.

Off topic: I like how us level 55's are the only ones giving our RPG badges a little extra customization lol.

[ryuyasha]

-1 Strongly against.

Many of the cons I can think of have already been mentioned, so I will just comment about Fb's aggressive data mining and disrespect for users privacy. And before someone suggests that people who feel that way can just not play on Fb, I would also point out that having FFR on Facebook is only a small step away from having buttons to link your Fb to FFR littering our site here. I would suggest that a better way to increase our userbase (although perhaps less efficient in terms of sheer number) would be for us to tell our friends, on Fb and on other sites and in person, about FFR and suggest they join if they like it. And perhaps post links where applicable. We could even add increased incentive on our site for members to refer other members.

TL;DR: Facebook is a leech. I think we should focus on strengthening our community here and not try to link with other sites except in terms of links and info referring people here. That is my two cents on the matter.

[Mike Weedmark]

I basically agree with Ryu.

FB is decent for socializing (and it's been going downhill for that), but when you combine it with other things, it takes on virus-like characteristics. FB doesn't enhance, it _infects_. I think we should just stay away from it.

[kommisar]

I just use facebook to communicate with others, it's all I would really see the group as


none of that conspiracy bullshit

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by ryuyasha

-1 Strongly against.

Many of the cons I can think of have already been mentioned, so I will just comment about Fb's aggressive data mining and disrespect for users privacy. And before someone suggests that people who feel that way can just not play on Fb, I would also point out that having FFR on Facebook is only a small step away from having buttons to link your Fb to FFR littering our site here.

Data mining and disrespect for user privacy? We are talking about a rhythm game here, the information that one chooses to disclose on a site is their own doing. If you are sending a site information that you don't want others (or the site) to know, then why would you do it? It's this neglect that results in Facebook being cited for evidence in divorces and arrests. Again, I don't use Facebook so if they actually take data from you (such as ip, location, perhaps sites you visit while logged onto Facebook) I wouldn't know. If it actually is something out of your control as I mentioned, it leads me to wonder why people still use it.

I would imagine that FFR isn't going to sell out to Facebook just to throw a game in their site. The integration towards Facebook would be minimal (if at all aside from the smaller song list), and the site itself would see no changes to accommodate for the Facebook sample engine. It isn't going to turn into FFRbook and be a shell of a site that it once was, that is if the engine was tweaked and sent as a game. It would just be an engine counterpart thrown onto Facebook, and if it demands anything more than that, I would imagine the project would stop completely.

[Mike Weedmark]

People still use it because as a social media portal, it's actually fine, though not great.

It's not the same as a site like Kongregate. People go to Kong FOR games. Apps on FB are just apps. They're messy, they actually do data mine, and they have a lack of personalization that always leaves you very aware you're playing a facebook game. In a word, they're CHEAP.

I would say FFR is already beyond the scope of what FB can do for it, and that you can't rely on trashy one-offs like Zynga (which is crashing meteorically at the moment) to model a community's expansion after.

The biggest problem imo, is the number of moving parts. FFR is a robust game with a very efficient presentation and number of features and a pretty close-knit community. I would call it streamlined. It also doesn't really benefit from page hits. Introducing FB elements into it would just make everything messy (both coding and interface-wise), needlessly complex, and less manageable. It's not going to do anything for FFR that something like updating the Kong engine wouldn't do much better.

Also, the kind of people who are impressed by Farmville aren't the kind who appreciate skill curves. FB isn't a gaming community. It's a place for Jenny McDuckface to post images of herself at bars pretending to make out with her female friends while blitzed. Not everyone uses it for that, but that's basically its THING. Never mind which outcome is most LIKELY, I think people are even overestimating the best-case scenario right off the bat.

[igotrhythm]

Originally Posted by Mike Weedmark

I basically agree with Ryu.

FB is decent for socializing (and it's been going downhill for that), but when you combine it with other things, it takes on virus-like characteristics. FB doesn't enhance, it _infects_. I think we should just stay away from it.

There's a reason we have a +1 on Google+ feature instead of a "like on Facebook", I'm supposing.

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by Mike Weedmark

The biggest problem imo, is the number of moving parts. FFR is a robust game with a very efficient presentation and number of features and a pretty close-knit community. I would call it streamlined. It also doesn't really benefit from page hits. Introducing FB elements into it would just make everything messy (both coding and interface-wise), needlessly complex, and less manageable. It's not going to do anything for FFR that something like updating the Kong engine wouldn't do much better.

Also, the kind of people who are impressed by Farmville aren't the kind who appreciate skill curves. FB isn't a gaming community.

I didn't even realize that FFR was on Kongregate, someone should definitely update this so the engine actually LOADS! Perhaps it would be a better idea to put FFR out on more sites that are centrally focused around gaming to get a better turn out.

Although just because it could be submitted to such gaming sites, doesn't mean it can't also be submitted to Facebook as well. Obviously Facebook is more social media oriented than it is gaming oriented (and it's games are typically boring easy time wasters). That doesn't mean there aren't people who would appreciate this game on Facebook, just about every kind of person uses that site I would imagine. Sure Jenny McDuckface seems to be the main thing that is seen by those who see Facebook at a glance, but who's to say Rudy McRhythm doesn't find a new game to play because he ran out of stuff to do on Rockband? The worst case scenario is that it doesn't attract nearly as many people as expected, which could be substituted by other gaming sites that FFR could be presented on.

[21992]

I agree with all of you but especially foxfire, he said that facebook apps try to incoorporate a money system where virtual money is involved, well I was suggestiong something along the lines of a complex widget that allows you to save scores and have MP access, after all FFR is "non-profit" from what I have seen. I think FFR will be the only legit facebook app that is absolutely free. This will definitely attract more people. Tetris Battle may be fun, but they are always advertising "buy tetris cash today at 50% off!". It would really be nice but arguments would arise like the ones mentioned in this thread like : "Which engine to put" or "Velocity won't do it" . But I have to remind everyone that this is the suggestions thread.

[justin_ator]

Originally Posted by Mike Weedmark

The biggest problem imo, is the number of moving parts. FFR is a robust game with a very efficient presentation and number of features and a pretty close-knit community. I would call it streamlined. It also doesn't really benefit from page hits. Introducing FB elements into it would just make everything messy (both coding and interface-wise), needlessly complex, and less manageable. It's not going to do anything for FFR that something like updating the Kong engine wouldn't do much better.

But you're looking at it from the point of "we're going to modify FFR to bring in Facebook users"... What I was thinking was more along the lines of simply setting up an app page with the FFR engine and a modified songlist. Any new coding would simply be
1) setting up the page itself
2) perhaps setting up some kind of scores on facebook, or allowing people to create ffr accounts from facebook to register and save scores
That's really not all that much 'complex and less manageable' in terms of additional coding. FFR wouldn't be catering to facebook aside from songlist and perhaps scores, if we even went that direction..

Originally Posted by igotrhythm

There's a reason we have a +1 on Google+ feature instead of a "like on Facebook", I'm supposing.

We do have a like on facebook button, load the main page and look in the left hand column right above prochat users