2024 TWG Rules Thread

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

does claiming SK and saying you'll town-side count

this is a grey-area but I want to say yes.

how does it not is the question here.

third parties are tricky...

[Xiz]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

this is a grey-area but I want to say yes.

how does it not is the question here.

third parties are tricky...

up to host, and dependent on the game imo.

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

this is a grey-area but I want to say yes.

how does it not is the question here.

third parties are tricky...

Yeah it is tricky actually

Was just thinking a Fool could act as a clear for town and work towards eliminating wolves rather than trying to get lynched (against wincon)

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Yeah it is tricky actually

Was just thinking a Fool could act as a clear for town and work towards eliminating wolves rather than trying to get lynched (against wincon)

considering a fool might be the most bastard role in the entire game, I hope to never see one on FFR. But I agree with your example

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

considering a fool might be the most bastard role in the entire game, I hope to never see one on FFR. But I agree with your example

we already have

plop got lynched day 1

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

this is a grey-area but I want to say yes.

how does it not is the question here.

third parties are tricky...

I would like to challenge this

the only reason I was able to win as serial killer once was to claim my role and side with humans (even though I was planning on backstabbing them in the penultimate phase) and force the game into a final four

in any game with multiple (more than two) factions, siding with another faction (including town) can be a strategic move and should not automatically constitute modkilling imo

at worst, the game setup's balance should be considered on a game-to-game basis --- one of the last games, the serial killer wasn't allowed to claim because it would screw up the game balance, but games like C9++ often are balanced in cases where SK claims happen

tl;dr I think it should be up to the host's discretion based on the game setup

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

I would like to challenge this

the only reason I was able to win as serial killer once was to claim my role and side with humans (even though I was planning on backstabbing them in the penultimate phase) and force the game into a final four

in any game with multiple (more than two) factions, siding with another faction (including town) can be a strategic move and should not automatically constitute modkilling imo

at worst, the game setup's balance should be considered on a game-to-game basis --- one of the last games, the serial killer wasn't allowed to claim because it would screw up the game balance, but games like C9++ often are balanced in cases where SK claims happen

tl;dr I think it should be up to the host's discretion based on the game setup

I want to say typically claiming SK as SK (unless it's the only thing that will save you from getting lynched, or maybe a few other rare-ish scenarios where you're forced to play your hand) will decrease your chances of winning the game, significantly. killing the SK is part of town's win condition. and part of wolves' win condition. who have a factional nightkill.

that's a good point though, and I think it should be less about modkilling and more about potential after-game repercussions if malicious intent was obvious.

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

I want to say typically claiming SK as SK (unless it's the only thing that will save you from getting lynched, or maybe a few other rare-ish scenarios where you're forced to play your hand) will decrease your chances of winning the game, significantly. killing the SK is part of town's win condition.

I agree that most of the time it will work against you, but in the other scenarios it's also a gambit, sort of like fakeclaiming cop. You have a remarkably high chance of getting killed by town when you execute it (and mess up), but gambits in and of themselves are parts of a larger strategy and should be treated as such. (e.g. thinking ahead and realizing that it's impossible to survive if you last until the Final Three, and claiming allows you to end the game during a night phase, claiming at least makes it possible to survive; or, fakeclaiming cop will 100% get you killed later on, but if you are a sinking ship you can claim cop in order to expose the real cop and help your teammates before you die.)

I agree with the malicious intent part --- but there's a difference between making a risky gambit and having it fail vs conceding the game.

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

or, fakeclaiming cop will 100% get you killed later on, but if you are a sinking ship you can claim cop in order to expose the real cop and help your teammates before you die

I would say this is completely different. wolves win as a team and dying earlier doesn't impede your ability to meet wincon, especially if it means helping your teammates live longer.

claiming a role that is anti-town and needs to not die in order to win is far less often a reasonable play.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

I would like to challenge this

the only reason I was able to win as serial killer once was to claim my role and side with humans (even though I was planning on backstabbing them in the penultimate phase) and force the game into a final four

in any game with multiple (more than two) factions, siding with another faction (including town) can be a strategic move and should not automatically constitute modkilling imo

at worst, the game setup's balance should be considered on a game-to-game basis --- one of the last games, the serial killer wasn't allowed to claim because it would screw up the game balance, but games like C9++ often are balanced in cases where SK claims happen

tl;dr I think it should be up to the host's discretion based on the game setup

I agree that I think this should be done as a case by case basis. There are 100% situations where claiming SK is strategic and beneficial, I think that what you did was fine. I think most of the time SKs claim, its fine. But when someone does what choof did, or what nijatwo did a very long time ago, where you just claim a promise to townside, its pretty awful for the game and 100% constitutes playing against your win condition.

Case-by-case basis should make it so that it allows for strategically claiming your role, but not saying "Fuck my win condition"