TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

[DarkManticoreX2]

There's some stuff I want to correct in freezin' most recent post that's just flat out wrong, but I'm more interested in Tiloco's answer.

[Celirra]

ok friends I've got my thinking beer, turns out I couldn't stay away for long after all

will answer questions you had earlier in a min tiloco

[Soundwave-]

There's only one thing in life I hate more than being wrong, and it's other people being wrong.

See when I'm wrong, it fucking sucks. But at least I got nobody to blame but myself. I can sit in the corner and take it like a man.

But when somebody else fucks up, it sucks just as much.

You can't take the blame for that shit. You got to stick it to them.

I don't like doing that. I don't like being that guy.

But there's some fuck ups here, and it looks like I gotta do something about it.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

There's some stuff I want to correct in freezin' most recent post that's just flat out wrong, but I'm more interested in Tiloco's answer.

Ok.

Well enlighten me, even though I have an idea already what your going to say, and I know what I'll say back

[tiloco217]

First off mafia definitely could have sat in the sidelines in that vote. The two main wagons were both town (from my perspective) so they have no reason to care which of them dies.

This is especially true for the people that I'm most suspicious of. Xiz wasn't around, Xel was lurking and had some heat so whoever he puts his vote on actually looks more town, Soundwave was lurking and I really doubt he would push a wagon. Tokzic was the only one that I think could have possibly lead a wagon (outside of Cel who helped the light wagon) and he didn't need to if town were already jumping on what Light had said.

Since towns were trying to lynch towns there really isn't a reason for mafia to get their hands dirty.

Manti going onto light instead of me makes sense too because he already expressed his dislike for light. If he doesn't have a strong opinion on me he has no reason to vote me there (the only other wagon) and it's not like he had time to form an opinion during that eod. Him voting on either wagon at the end makes him more likely to be town for the reasons I keep saying.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Soundwave-

There's only one thing in life I hate more than being wrong, and it's other people being wrong.

See when I'm wrong, it fucking sucks. But at least I got nobody to blame but myself. I can sit in the corner and take it like a man.

But when somebody else fucks up, it sucks just as much.

You can't take the blame for that shit. You got to stick it to them.

I don't like doing that. I don't like being that guy.

But there's some fuck ups here, and it looks like I gotta do something about it.

The hell are you going on about?

[tiloco217]

Tbh this conversation has been really helpful for getting my thoughts together

[Celirra]

Time for a lazy throw together of Tiloco's lazy reads or reads with holes

Read on me using "well that's what I would do" (paraphrased, don't be too hoity toity with me here), then squatting your way to take back on it without really caring.

Idly throwing red on Xiz for being quiet I guess?

scuttling your way out of fire once again:

Originally Posted by tiloco217

@Xel: I didn't really want to give that read because I knew it wouldn't help things but I couldn't just ignore it. I've been asking you to effort post and then you did and I still didn't like it even though I liked what you said. I definitely appreciate you doing more but my gut is just telling me mafia. I'm going to give it a little more time, let you get a few more good posts in, and then try to re-evaluate based on content alone. Keep content coming.

Even at around #1305 with your logical reasoning, I'm pretty sure this is the most well thought out argument you've had, and one of few times you didn't just say "yeah but __ is a wolf because" followed by the shy middle school kid's way of evading critique when questioned. The argument was okay for what it's worth, but you didn't even address all the points and went with a "yeah but look at it from MY angle" pov.

Then you come around and hit us with this nasty sucker punch again

Originally Posted by tiloco217

The mafia are probably within: Xiz, Tokzic, Xel, Soundwave, Cel, MML

That's in order of most likely to least likely

when I say sucker punch, I mean it sucked

Stop making lists of people with no reasoning. At least give a bit of *something* in the post that shows you're trying with what you say, pretty please.

So, I have a challenge to you, tropicana: give me a unique opinion you've formed this game. Quote it for me, ya? That'd be swell and shows a bit of care from ya, thanks cutie.

I know you're not a bad player it seems, which is why your play is so suspicious; you can do better I'm sure.

[FreezinIce]

I like the way this day is going. I'll even go so far to say tilocos latest scenario is actually plausible and a nice alternative to mine (if a little bleak for town. )

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by tiloco217

Tbh this conversation has been really helpful for getting my thoughts together

Nice to know the immediate threat of death has had an effect on you

[FreezinIce]

Tiloco if you had to lynch someone right now who would it be and why

[Celirra]

Originally Posted by Xiz

If we lynch in my red pool I think we are good. I really think flipping tokzic will give us most info.

Tokzik has a wave of mystique about him for sure, and there's a few approaches I think, for who to lynch:

1) Tokzik would help us to get rid of one potential target, that'd be swell.
2) Ticolo would lessen the noise a LOT
3) Soundwave would clear the air a bit; it seems everyone has a bit of doubt about him unless I forgot someone's reads (which I think I did, but bare with me)

If you want how I think any other lynches would go down for us, let me know eh. This is irrespective to who I think is a wolf, but honestly, I wouldn't mind either 1) or 2) right now.

[tiloco217]

@Cel

There's nothing more to say on my read on you and I explained it well and explained that it was tentative.

My Xiz read has been explained MANY times.

Not much to say about the Xel one. My read on Xel is difficult as my gut is saying mafia but content is pretty towny as I've explained.

The look at it from my angel thing was very important in the context. It's the only way to explain those thoughts which needed to be brought out.

That was the first time I have ever just posted a list of names with an opinion. Literally all of my other posts of the type explain how I'm reading someone or refer to a time when I did.

Originally Posted by tiloco217

Wrote all of this before seeing the kills. Doesn't change much of my opinions

I’m writing this post in a car ride with occasional shitty internet so I’m basically just going to go off what I remember. I’m going to have enough time to get on and post this before I go to bed but that’s it and I won’t even have time to read the thread until late tomorrow. I should be active on monday though.

Xiz’s read hasn’t changed much since I said it in my reads list. His thought process is very hard for me to grasp and doesn’t feel natural to me. I don’t have the specific posts but I went into a little detail when Xiz asked about it. I think it’s possible that it’s just because he’s busy and travelling like people said but that doesn’t really make sense as a reason to feel inconsistent while just reading the thread and doing a stream of consciousness. I backed off of him at the end of the day though because I want to give him a chance to respond to these things more effectively and see where he’s coming from. I really hope there will be plenty to read from him when I get back late Sunday. (He’s the one that said 1000 posts this game right? Got some catching up to do)

Cel I really didn’t want to call out at eod but I didn’t want to get lynched with it going unsaid. Keeping in mind that I didn’t really have enough time to evaluate him properly, I think he has a similar playstyle to me. I would slot him into the same stereotypes that I see myself in. And in his situation the only way I would ever try as hard as he did is if I was mafia. Nothing much was expected of him so as either alignment he could have gone by with input on what was currently happening and slowly reading through the thread. Now as town I would likely choose that option, it’s helpful and productive while still not being to stressful. However as mafia I doubt I would ever do that. As mafia I would think about all the free town points I could be getting from being really active and trying hard and I would play it very similarly to how he did with skimming through the thread, posting reactions, and eventually just stopping reading backlog (no guarantee he did that but likely as he didn’t comment on anything new he read) and focus on getting town to want to misslynch. Now the lynchpin of this read is that I am evaluating Cel based on my meta. I don’t think that line of play is as terrible as I’m sure most of you (*cough* freezin *cough*) will probably think it is but I can’t do it if I’m not sure that Cel would play the same as me here and I just don’t have enough info to really get that read. If I had let Cel keep going while getting town read and probably little to no one reading him as scum then I think it would have been a lot easier for me to tell his meta but I will probably just have to evaluate him differently now that this all had to be explained. Basically this read isn’t going to help me all that much now but I am going to keep him at slight red.

Tl;dr I had a meta read I can’t be sure on and now will never be able to. Slight red because of it

Xel is playing this game very weird. I’m pretty sure he’s the shitposting type and there has been very little of that from him. Instead we got early game content and then nothing but the occasional quip (and even those aren’t shitposty. they tend to be something seemingly productive that he never goes back to). The biggest issue I have with him is that he was present for many hours leading up to eod and would occasionally drop a comment on something said but he would never actually do anything. Being around for that long he had to have had some time to actually put some effort in but he just never did.

Now for the votes on me

The votes on me were roundbox, haku, and freezin and I think they were in that order but haku and freezin might have been switched.

roundbox going on me randomly is very interesting. I think there’s a strong case to be made for this being either alignment. I’m going to have to go over his posts more when I have time and consistent internet. I think his read on me was something like “flipping on xiz a lot means he’s stuck between wanting to play with him and wanting to evaluate him fairly”. If he hadn’t voted on me I would have probably assumed he thought I was town from that. It’s fairly true but I don’t understand how being torn by wanting to evaluate him is a mafia sided problem. Please elaborate or tell me how badly I misinterpreted your read.

Haku has been on me since I started posting I’m pretty sure. He seems like the type to rarely re-evaluate his reads. I think he would have voted on me there as either alignment so it doesn’t really affect my read on him.

Freezin’s vote on me is noteworthy because it means he didn’t vote on light which I think he would do as mafia. I doubt he would have gotten any slack for putting it on light there as he already said he wants inactives dead. Him instead bandwagoning on me is fairly towny I think.

The only one that I think comes out possibly mafia in my votes is roundbox and that’s pretty tentative. At first I found that really weird but very few people in the thread had a good reason to vote on me outside of those three so if any of them jumped on the bandwagon then when I came back town they would look really bad. I had been taken off the table by a pretty large percentage of the game at that point. Come to think of it that makes roundbox even less likely to try to start after me as mafia.

Other hot reads that I remember from eod but don’t really want to go into more detail on without the thread handy are:

Tokzic and Xiz had some interactions that made me think they could be partners but I can’t remember them now
DBP switched off the light lynch and then called out a few town that included me and light, the only two real wagons, and then voted on Xel. DBP gets a lot of town cred from these 15 minutes alone

Literally this entire post is based on my own detailed opinions and I didn't even have the thread to reference for them.

You saying that I am bringing nothing unique to the table is baffling to me.

[inDheart]

hi i'm eating, should be pretty much here for the rest of the day

[tiloco217]

I think that Cel has very little reason to be flipping on me. Everything he's bringing up feels fabricated and has more to do with me being the only one throwing any scum at him.

If I had to kill someone right now I'd probably kill Xiz because I think his recent opinions are very safe reads that have all been said before and his early game content was very off-putting.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by tiloco217

I think that Cel has very little reason to be flipping on me. Everything he's bringing up feels fabricated and has more to do with me being the only one throwing any scum at him.

If I had to kill someone right now I'd probably kill Xiz because I think his recent opinions are very safe reads that have all been said before and his early game content was very off-putting.

You going to put your vote where your money where your mouth is?

[Celirra]

...I'm gonna come out and admit I think I missed the bulk of your wall there, apologies.

...But even still, there wasn't a lot of... I guess care there? Most of what you said about Xiz was fluffy, most of what you said of me was busted as you reading me as if I'm as pretty as you are. Xel's part was a metaread and it was already touched on a fair bit if I remember right.

I don't mind the ps. at the end though, that was ok. More of that pls, if you'd be so dandy.

[tiloco217]

My vote is already on Xiz

[DarkManticoreX2]

Tiloco is actually doing a really good job of staying rational and his posts have a lot of valid points.

I like the heat on him, but I think if you read most of these recent posts with a clear head, they're solid points and really well thought out answers. I don't like his EOD vote, but I kinda think additional pressure on him is heavy tunneling.

More when I can get to a computer and actually use quotes/do research

[Celirra]

Originally Posted by tiloco217

I think that Cel has very little reason to be flipping on me. Everything he's bringing up feels fabricated and has more to do with me being the only one throwing any scum at him.

Pretty sure Xiz put me as 4th wolf in a case of "well, there's nobody better for it!" too, so you're about even with him in that regard.

In my experience, pretending to be rubber in an argument doesn't work too well. But I'll let it slide, I don't think it'd influence me further anyways.