TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

1. It makes sense because if you want to apply pressure or provoke a reaction, even as a joke, it makes no sense to vote someone who has no votes already. You go after the person who is getting heat.

I guess you do, but then again, I don't mind. Besides, the "heat" I got seems to be based over so little that if there's actually a wolf voting for me, they would look like ass once I got cardflipped.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

2. The reaction to the votes pretty much boils down to "im not going to entertain or engage these people voting for me." The parallel being an authority figure with a policy of not negotiating with terrorists AKA people voting for you. It was hyperbole.

I didn't say that. I would be cool with the outcome. FMPoV, the only better one is lynching a wolf. I think the info gained from lynching me might be one of the better mislynches possible.

But I'm still here to play the game, so while I won't do some defensive "here's why you should vote someone else" kinda thing, I'm definitely happy to address anything anyone wants to ask me while I'm there, therefore, yeah, I'll negotiate with anyone, it's just that me dying isn't the be all end all, we don't have to play a perfect game to win, and having fun is overrated compared to winning, so lol.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

3. Its info id rather keep to myself at the moment, half of which is stuff that i imagine is only relevant to me and the other half something i dont really want to draw attention to till much later in the game assuming you live till then.

Well I can respect this

[FreezinIce]

On an unrelated note i overall like bugkids entrance. They are doing a lot of solving for it being so early but im actually on the side of the fence that thinks its towny atm despite the funny uber early reads list being something that should leave a bad taste.

Coming from them it has a sort of....iono how to describe it, genuineness? And it lines up with their M/O in past games.

That being said i dont think ive ever seen a bugkid wolf game so i cant oversell them but for now its good enough

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

If you want answers so bad come down to my level and lets muck in the mud

how 'bout a martini? shaken, not stirred.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

I didn't say that. I would be cool with the outcome. FMPoV, the only better one is lynching a wolf. I think the info gained from lynching me might be one of the better mislynches possible.

But I'm still here to play the game, so while I won't do some defensive "here's why you should vote someone else" kinda thing, I'm definitely happy to address anything anyone wants to ask me while I'm there, therefore, yeah, I'll negotiate with anyone, it's just that me dying isn't the be all end all, we don't have to play a perfect game to win, and having fun is overrated compared to winning, so lol.

You may think your being helpful and a team player but this is why i always remember u dying early, you dont value staying alive as much as you should.

If your human or wolf you should be playing to your wincon and that almost always involves staying alive and helping your team correctly read you (or obfuscating if your a wolf).

Most people judge wolfiness based on a surivial vector and seeing people fold and not fight pressure or demonstrate an indifference towards dying is generally seen as wolfy.

And despite what you think just dying early and having town fixate on cleaning your wagon for a few days is not a good stratagy, especially since its so easy to lay pressure on you that it could be a clean wagon at the end of the day

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

On an unrelated note i overall like bugkids entrance. They are doing a lot of solving for it being so early but im actually on the side of the fence that thinks its towny atm despite the funny uber early reads list being something that should leave a bad taste.

Coming from them it has a sort of....iono how to describe it, genuineness? And it lines up with their M/O in past games.

That being said i dont think ive ever seen a bugkid wolf game so i cant oversell them but for now its good enough

I wish you did that post with either T-Force, Raeko or Star Crossed.

I feel like I just heard the echo of my previous post from a mountain and it's starting to make me feel like you're parroting what I say.

I'm saying that because you also voted H&H after I voted him.

[FreezinIce]

Like im 100% town here and im still having a very easy time seeing myself voting for you at eod and facing no consequences and feeling fine even if you flip town because as of right now im not convinced having someone with the survival skills of a opossum as town is worth the risk of you just possibly being a wolf.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I wish you did that post with either T-Force, Raeko or Star Crossed.

I feel like I just heard the echo of my previous post from a mountain and it's starting to make me feel like you're parroting what I say.

I'm saying that because you also voted H&H after I voted him.

Would you be offended if i said ive read probably 10% of your total wordcount this game so far?

So whatever i say in relation to your thoughts is likely to count as a mindmeld

Including whatever your reasoning for the hxh vote ends up being , because i already said i voted him because he was already being voted

[FreezinIce]

To be completely clear, i saw the red vote name and jumped on and didnt read whatever reasoning you or storn had for it

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

You may think your being helpful and a team player but this is why i always remember u dying early, you dont value staying alive as much as you should.

If your human or wolf you should be playing to your wincon and that almost always involves staying alive and helping your team correctly read you (or obfuscating if your a wolf).

Most people judge wolfiness based on a surivial vector and seeing people fold and not fight pressure or demonstrate an indifference towards dying is generally seen as wolfy.

And despite what you think just dying early and having town fixate on cleaning your wagon for a few days is not a good stratagy, especially since its so easy to lay pressure on you that it could be a clean wagon at the end of the day

For the record, I don't actually die super early most of the time. I've probably made it further in the games I've been in than most people in those. Not that this really matters, these were then, this is now, but if you really insist, I can show you previous games in which I have fought tooth and nail to convince people to vote someone other than me when I've believed it was beneficial to my team (I don't actually feel like doing that though so lol please just take my word for it).

That aside, yeah, I think what you're saying is true in general, but please consider context: it's D0, nobody has any serious read at this point, someone is going to die, 7/9 chances it will be a greenie. Who are the lynch options, and what would their potential cardflips indicate based on the interractions that have occurred so far. I'd be willing to talk about this, but it will bring said interactions to a grinding halt. 3 people have currently piled on me for their own accord with extremely little reason, and they will have to explain themselves, and this is something that will follow them for the rest of the game, and I personally believe at least one wolf is among them, call it a gut feeling if you want. This is really not that big of a deal, it's really not as though I don't care for my own survival.

If the wagon does persist, I will state my opinions on the people who are insisting that I should be the one to go, naturally, since I will not get to share my thoughts afterwards, and this is what anyone being the target should do in the end because we have no actual information at this point in the game.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I wish you did that post with either T-Force, Raeko or Star Crossed.

I feel like I just heard the echo of my previous post from a mountain and it's starting to make me feel like you're parroting what I say.

I'm saying that because you also voted H&H after I voted him.

Raeko is standard raeko d0, your not voting here so why ask?

Starcrossed is huge walls of text that i dont really feel like digesting atm on mobile.

Tforce is a lot of half serious posts and exaggerated reactions that im getting kind of a gray vibe from so if i had a number 2 suspicion i guess it would be here.

I actually read most of bugkids posts cause iono they hooked me more? Or i just felt the need to focus on a few people a today and just use tonereads on everyone else. If there's anything interesting ill give it a look if you quote it or on my own eventually

[Hateandhatred]

That being said freezin...

if

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

3. Its info id rather keep to myself at the moment, half of which is stuff that i imagine is only relevant to me and the other half something i dont really want to draw attention to till much later in the game assuming you live till then.

Why would you now go on that big speech about my low survivability?

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

For the record, I don't actually die super early most of the time. I've probably made it further in the games I've been in than most people in those. Not that this really matters, these were then, this is now, but if you really insist, I can show you previous games in which I have fought tooth and nail to convince people to vote someone other than me when I've believed it was beneficial to my team (I don't actually feel like doing that though so lol please just take my word for it).

That aside, yeah, I think what you're saying is true in general, but please consider context: it's D0, nobody has any serious read at this point, someone is going to die, 7/9 chances it will be a greenie. Who are the lynch options, and what would their potential cardflips indicate based on the interractions that have occurred so far. I'd be willing to talk about this, but it will bring said interactions to a grinding halt. 3 people have currently piled on me for their own accord with extremely little reason, and they will have to explain themselves, and this is something that will follow them for the rest of the game, and I personally believe at least one wolf is among them, call it a gut feeling if you want. This is really not that big of a deal, it's really not as though I don't care for my own survival.

If the wagon does persist, I will state my opinions on the people who are insisting that I should be the one to go, naturally, since I will not get to share my thoughts afterwards, and this is what anyone being the target should do in the end because we have no actual information at this point in the game.

From experience this kind of thing rarely follows people, FFR is notorious for not reading early days or remembering key interactions. If you think people who kill you today will be scrutinized i have some unfortunate news for you, they wont be for the same reasons you just stated, its d0 and "accidents" happen.

Trying to make something like that stick is almost impossible unless they do absolutely NO prep work to make the kill palpable to town before eod and even then sometimes people can talk their way out of it.

You would have more success finding the wolf on your wagon yourself rather than expecting people to do it for you. Thats what im really not liking atm, there is absolutely no urgency in your play. You said it yourself that people need very little reason to kill d0, knowing that you should be treating this situation with a lot more seriousness.

When you say your going to wait to see if your still getting pressure later before you address it honestly sounds like a wolf kicking the can down the road due to laziness or wanting to stay utr.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

That being said freezin...

if



Why would you now go on that big speech about my low survivability?

I changed my mind, the stuff i want to keep to myself hasnt been mentioned and i opened the bag on the stuff i felt like would only be relevant to me because i honestly just want to see your justification for it and open a dialog that other people can comment on so i can see if its just me thats feeling this way.

[FreezinIce]

Whenever i say d0 just assume i mean d1 because old habits die hard

[FreezinIce]

I forgot shad hoe god was in this game, and thats a badbthing.

Tbh they are also sus because hes doing that annoying thing he does as a wolf where he just agrees with everyone and doesnt rock the boat or say anything original.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

You may think your being helpful and a team player but this is why i always remember u dying early, you dont value staying alive as much as you should.

If your human or wolf you should be playing to your wincon and that almost always involves staying alive and helping your team correctly read you (or obfuscating if your a wolf).

Most people judge wolfiness based on a surivial vector and seeing people fold and not fight pressure or demonstrate an indifference towards dying is generally seen as wolfy.

And despite what you think just dying early and having town fixate on cleaning your wagon for a few days is not a good stratagy, especially since its so easy to lay pressure on you that it could be a clean wagon at the end of the day

This is good advice, but it's also a post I would do as a wolf more than town. I think the town mindset would be to try to understand what's up. You're kind of doing both so, I guess that's sort of fair, but yeah.

Raeko looks very comfy and all I got from her game is that she likes my posts, but nothing helps me understand the narrative of her game. That's kinda worrisome to me. I will probably not get the chance to ask her anything this phase considering I won't be here tomorrow. I'm not sure I'm a fan of that. I think town raeko would have said something she likes or dislike about other players by now, but I guess this depends of what she will say tomorrow before EoD.

T-Force is also in a spot where I'm confident he could have posted 100% of his posts as both alignment. I'm slightly leaning town based on tone alone tho. It's not worth much, but I don't think I would have voted here Day 0.

I might slight town lean Star based on this post:

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Putting together some thoughts.

I quite like Lewdy so far, and the fact that I do is helping give me some confidence that we can get somewhere with process of elimination today.

I do not have a strong opinion on raeko so far. She is coming across as more positive/invested than a lot of other d0s, which to some extent makes it harder to do a 1-1 comparison. I probably like her more than people she has implied being sus of. There's a casualness to the leads she's pursuing, that comes across as less likely she already has the answers?

I am voting bugkid right now. bugkid has been openly kind of self-conscious about showing up late. You could argue that this is good or bad. I feel better calling the (potential) bluff at this juncture. There is a timidness to their posts that could indicate being a nervous first time wolf. (Note-they have kind of interrupted this post of mine to show more spirit. I will consider if they deserve my re-evaluation.)

The most town-minded thing storn has said is when he stated he feels he is making content. In my mind, he is mostly saying pseudo philosophical things and giving nonsensical and vaguely contradictory reasons for voting Hateandhatred.

Hateandhatred - Right now I have him as slightly town for the post where he said he is not defending himself, and the one where he responded to T-Force about the Haku questioning. Both these sound genuine in a way that I think they may not if he was a wolf.

I am also pretty neutral so far on FreezinIce, T-Force, Haku. It remains to be seen if Freezin puts his money where his mouth is with trying to be spicy. For instance, I think that saying you are voting somebody to be spicy actually makes it less spicy. I hope we end up in the thread at the same time. It may help me know if you are mild at heart.

This felt relatable. Those posts are probably easy to make as wolves, but I also think this specific post is within the town expectation. I do think this post moves the game forward and is genuine helpful regardless of alignment. I might lean town as in "at least keep alive Day 0" kind of post.

Storn is literally a coin flip. iso ain't helping me. Seems to be having fun being storn, but that's it.


Yeah, I'm also not feeling it with Shadow God this game. Not sure why. I feel like he's not getting into the game as much.

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

From experience this kind of thing rarely follows people, FFR is notorious for not reading early days or remembering key interactions. If you think people who kill you today will be scrutinized i have some unfortunate news for you, they wont be for the same reasons you just stated, its d0 and "accidents" happen.

Who the hell doesn't at least check vote history? It's literally THE main clue of alignment. Voting a wolf into a lynch makes you look good. Voting a town into a lynch makes you look bad. That's like the most basic thing. People may not pay furious attention to early posts like other communities would, but they'll at least look into this much, if they don't they're way worse players than I am, and I don't think I'm particularly good at TWG.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Trying to make something like that stick is almost impossible unless they do absolutely NO prep work to make the kill palpable to town before eod and even then sometimes people can talk their way out of it.

They can talk their way out of any situation, also a fundamental of the game, and again, someone is going to be lynched no matter what, but because of D0, it's extremely difficult to apply an actual reasoning onto who should go or who shouldn't, and "whoever is least defensive about survivability" isn't a good way to determine a target. Knowing that, of course I'm going to try to be strategic about it for the good of my alignment, lol. It's a long shot, granted, but it's what I've got. I wouldn't feel this way if I felt strongly about anything in particular myself, I do what I can and I'm sorry if you doing like it.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

You would have more success finding the wolf on your wagon yourself rather than expecting people to do it for you. Thats what im really not liking atm, there is absolutely no urgency in your play. You said it yourself that people need very little reason to kill d0, knowing that you should be treating this situation with a lot more seriousness.

Still virtually a full day left. There isn't any urgency and I'm not about to be insta'd. I am obviously playing the game despite not trying to tell other people to vote off my ass. I understand your criticis, but I believe my approach is in good faith, if only off meta.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

When you say your going to wait to see if your still getting pressure later before you address it honestly sounds like a wolf kicking the can down the road due to laziness or wanting to stay utr.

No, it's because if I'm going to be mislynched, I can say whatever I want and it will be known as an absolute genuine town sentiment.

Also, there will likely be more interactions between players, and something else could come up that would actually change my perspective a great deal.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

>only be relevant to me
>open a dialog that other people can comment on.

No fuck off, I don't buy it. You could have just said you were lazy, this is terrible.

[Hakulyte]

I'm going to sleep in 2 hours and my vote will not move until EoD.

So, unlike the rest of you, I have to decide where to lock vote.

[Hateandhatred]

if you don't like it*

[Hakulyte]

I'm tempted to assume FreezinIce/H&H is a TvT late night headbutt fight.

I think game gets spicier voting storn/shadow god while keeping an eye on whatever T-Force/Raeko will say tomorrow.