SSBM Competitive info.

[masterhickle]

I fail to see how Tsugo, Squeek, and Falco have "triple-teamed" this thread.

On the note of a Bob-omb spawning on top of two players fighting, and the less skilled player obtaining, and killing, the more skilled player with said Bob-omb : Have you ever tried to dodge one of those from point blank range? It's nigh impossible, unless you put down a lucky sidestep dodge, or press A and catch it without meaning to. The bombs travel at a higher rate of speed than any other item when thrown, even compared to a smash throw.

Hylian - You know what we call people who think items take away from the game? Tourneyfags. Taking items away from the game is like taking the stripes off of a tiger. It is apart of the game whether you think it takes skill or not. I myself have my tourneyfag moments as well, but I know when it affects my enjoyment and when it doesn't.

"Tourneyfags" ? Is this even a legitimate term, or have you and your friends arbitrarily declared it a term? Before I further digress from the reason I quoted that...

Getting a Starman and becoming Invincible takes no skill. Getting a Metal Box and negating your opponent's knock-back takes no skill. Getting a Pokemon like Lugia, Ho-oh, or Entei (just to name a few) takes no skill. Using food to lower your damage takes no skill, it's more of a last resort to live if you ask me.

Items further increase the already large element of luck.

people choose to change the rules in their favour and remove them from play.

People choose to change the rules in order to balance the game and remove them from play. While a higher tier character will generally defeat a lower tier character, it all comes down to how well either player can mind-game and perform their techs.

Have you ever seen Bum (DK) vs Isai (Captain Falcon) in the most recent tournament? Bum took the series, and I believe placed fourth overall in the tournament. Link here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuGMUzKIlnk (Best of 5, Bum takes it 3-1)

[MarisaKirisame]

Originally Posted by Squeek

1) I mean everyone uses the same characters. Fox, marth/roy, etc.

2) Oh no. Putting things in the hands of luck? Who would think there could be a tournament where there's a basis in luck, let alone one where there's a cash prize?!

http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/

Why base it on luck when you don't have to? These major tournaments aren't for fun, they're for money. A lot of people, like me, find competing fun, though, especially for money. I actually have WAY more fun competing seriously than I do playing around or playing with luck.

Luck is still involved in these tournaments, just not quite as much.

Really, a friend of mine plays with items sometimes, and he's not the greatest player even, but he loses even more badly with items than he does without them, and he's pretty good with items.

Seriously, it's not that the pros can't avoid them, they just don't want to be bullshat and to waste time. The best non-item professionals are probably better with items than the best item-playing users.

[slickskater29]

Before I start, im going to end this argument about items. It was agreed that competitive smash take out items because they can, without skill, completely change the course of a match.

first, Squeek:

if people are just going to exploit glitches and use the same three characters in every match.

Random character, random stage, random items. Fair battle.

1) I mean everyone uses the same characters. Fox, marth/roy, etc.

2) Oh no. Putting things in the hands of luck? Who would think there could be a tournament where there's a basis in luck, let alone one where there's a cash prize?!

http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/

Yea, "glitches"...lets see, in smash bros 64 there was SHFFL, wavedash, waveland, wave shining, edge hoging. The basics of the SSBM metagame were in the previous game. So why didnt nintendo take these "glitches" out?

Same characters, whining, etc: everyone plays characters because, on the HIGHEST level of gameplay, certain characters are better than others. Also, certain characters counter others. The best example is Doc. Mario, i think is low in the high tier, counters Fox and Falco, the two top tier characters.

Random character, stage, and items? If you are playing a competative game with cash prizes, which is 95% skill 5% luck. Why would you want to change it to be 60% luck 40% skill?

On the note of luck, you must be a retard. You are comparing poker, which is 75% luck, 25% skill, to a game which is 95% skill 5% luck. Basically two different games altogether, i know, because I play a lot of poker too.


tsugomaru:

If anything, items can make a battle fair. There are some imbalances between every character and items just fix it. If you aren't skilled enough to use them or avoid them, you can't claim you're a pro.

Quit your crying, everything in life requires some luck.

Then why doesn't player A just dodge out of the bomb? Sure it may prevent player B from dying, but if player A is so skilled, than why can't he just finish player B off a bit later?

I still don't think winning or losing with items is luck. If anything, it requires skill.

On items, see above. Pro? Please, the people who get payed to play smash are pro. Items off! People considered to be amateur? Items off! You go ahead and make your own league of SSBM with items on. When you have your considered "pros" together, let me know, ok?

Items don't work that way. If you are skilled enough to mindgame your opponent, you will hit them every time with an item. Its like you just 0-death your opponent first stock, maybe take afew hits, but still almost a whole stock lead (with fox, its probably 15-20 hits). Your opponent grabs a bobomb, you dodge, he hits you, and the game is tied in 3 hits. In this instance, luck has completely taken over the skill factor. Without that bobomb, your opponent has to step up and combo you, or get you off the edge and edge guard. So many more skillfull things than throwing somthing that fell from the sky.

Chromer:

No, that's not what I meant. Get your head out of your ass. I was saying that I knew (as well as any person capable of thought who plays SSBM) most of this informaton and where to get it so a sticky is not needed.

Now, what were you thinking?

Hylian - You know what we call people who think items take away from the game? Tourneyfags. Taking items away from the game is like taking the stripes off of a tiger. It is apart of the game whether you think it takes skill or not. I myself have my tourneyfag moments as well, but I know when it affects my enjoyment and when it doesn't.

Also, I don't know about you but using items that actually require you to wield them take skill as well. Remember how hard it was to get a Home Run using the Home Run bat in SSB and slightly in Melee? Yeah. Thought so.

Basically, Tsugo, Squeek, and Falco triple-teamed this thread so game over.

These "tourneyfags" are the ones making the money and making the rules. also lets not forget the fact that they're better than you. Items are part of the game, but it makes it unbalanced.

Tsugo, Squeek and Falco are triple-teaming? Thats something that I hear about real fags doing. gg


On a real discussion, thanks Hylian for being one of the few people actually knowing what you are talking about. Wobbles? I hate the idea of "get grabbed, you die" But, for right now, there arn't too many IC players, so if you are playing an IC main, you usually know ahead of time. IMO, id pick Falcon to counter them. If they dont play ICs, i'd doubt that they have a better character. Now, if this wasn't the case, and there were more ICs than Marths around. And people could have really good hardcore secondaries along with badass ICs. I'd be pissed at wobbles. But for now, id be upset if it got banned in MLG. A small part is because ChuDat would be out of a job. (His YLink is good, but not top 16) What do you think about Shiek?

[Chromer]

Slickskater and Masterhickle, you fags wouldn't know the first thing about competitive SSBM playing. You go to MLG and suck the dick of every "PRO" who can kick a person's ass using a wavedash and a little mindgame work.

Let's start with one thing so you guys don't get confused. THE SUPER SMASH BROTHERS SERIES IS NOT A FIGHTING GAME. You people seem to think just because it is played seriously like one it must be one. Last time I checked, it was a party game where you can fight with your favorite characters from Nintendo. You guys obviously forgot that part. So your BAAAWWWWing over whether items unbalance the game has no relevance here. If items make the game unbalanced then why isn't Samus banned from tournaments? Why isn't Link banned from Tournaments? Hell why isn't anyone who uses projectiles banned from use? According to your logic, Link's Down+B is the same as having a Bomb as well as Peach's B special pulling up a turnip or a Mr. Saturn. Really good logic there guys.

Also, this entire argument is for removing a key element of the game because some people can't handle the fact that using intelligent decisions when playing with items overrules playing with nothing on because they suck. Also, I might not be as good as Ken and Isai but I play with people such as ChuDat, Tope, The_Doug, O-NO, and more. Yeah, I really suck.

[Squeek]

I've never played a tournament because all of you people are like "LOL ITEMS ARE BANNED AND WE ALL WAVEDASH SO IF YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE MASHING BUTTONS TO MOVE INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY MOVING THEN ROFL YOU JUST SUCK LOL".

Sorry if I don't have any experience in tournaments, but you all are the ones who prevent me from getting any experience. My entire gameplay style is based on items. Not using them--throwing them. I don't want to use Link or Peach instead because they take forever to get their items out and they have pathetic ranges and/or run out. That, and those characters are slow.

But Chromer pretty much nailed it.

[Demon_Lord57]

Originally Posted by Chromer

Slickskater and Masterhickle, you fags wouldn't know the first thing about competitive SSBM playing. You go to MLG and suck the dick of every "PRO" who can kick a person's ass using a wavedash and a little mindgame work.

Let's start with one thing so you guys don't get confused. THE SUPER SMASH BROTHERS SERIES IS NOT A FIGHTING GAME. You people seem to think just because it is played seriously like one it must be one. Last time I checked, it was a party game where you can fight with your favorite characters from Nintendo. You guys obviously forgot that part. So your BAAAWWWWing over whether items unbalance the game has no relevance here. If items make the game unbalanced then why isn't Samus banned from tournaments? Why isn't Link banned from Tournaments? Hell why isn't anyone who uses projectiles banned from use? According to your logic, Link's Down+B is the same as having a Bomb as well as Peach's B special pulling up a turnip or a Mr. Saturn. Really good logic there guys.

Also, this entire argument is for removing a key element of the game because some people can't handle the fact that using intelligent decisions when playing with items overrules playing with nothing on because they suck. Also, I might not be as good as Ken and Isai but I play with people such as ChuDat, Tope, The_Doug, O-NO, and more. Yeah, I really suck.

...First off you have no idea wtf your even talking about. Both of them definitely know more than you I would know i play with them...

Players at MLG would hand your ass to you on a silver platter if you played them, thats the one main reason they are in MLG because they are good and skillful.

Last time I checked, it was a party game where you can fight with your favorite characters from Nintendo.

Go check again...because by saying it is not a fighting game and then saying this you just contradicted yourself...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._Melee
look by genre and you'll see how stupid you are

About your argument with removing samus and link and all other projectile characters... links bombs do no way near as much damage as the bob-omb. The probability of peach pulling anything other then turnips is really low. Samus is the same as link her bombs do low amounts of damage and do not even relate the the powerful bob-omb and need i say hard to hit someone with...

Items are only a key element of the game if you playing the game to enjoying beating your friends to a pulp. As for intelligent decisions with items... please you move around then throw the damn thing i don't see how that overrules playing with nothing. Playing with nothing makes you think more it's quite obvious.

As for you playing with ChuDat, Tope and whoever else you mentioned, do you want a freaking cookie? Because your not going to get one from anyone here and by the way you talk, it's sounds to me like your hiding how bad you really suck.
_________________________________________________________________


Squeek- STFU you don't have any tournament experience because you choose not to get any. Button mash...thats tekken...get your games straight.

[Squeek]

No, you're not getting it.

Wavedashing... jump dodge down cancel fall = 4 button presses and precise timing.

Running... hold the directional stick forward.

Which one seems to be the way to travel.

Personally, I don't really care to mash 4 buttons in a repeating pattern to gain a slight edge on my opponent. I'd rather we just run.

You're right. I choose not to get any tournament experience. Gaming tournaments are a joke to begin with, and this game in particular is retarded. I refuse to participate in a tournament that sets down stupid rules like "you MUST wavedash to have a chance and items are not allowed because we don't know how to turn off bob-ombs because we're all idiots."

[Chromer]

Originally Posted by Demon_Lord57

BAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't get past the fact that you are with Hylian and Hickle to understand that rambling you just did.

1. I've been playing Smash since it came out on N64 so I think I have a pretty good understanding of how **** works. The fact that you pulled up a Wikipedia article shows that you are not certain yourself that SSBM is a fighting game because Wikipedia != real source. Good job ***.

2.OMFG MLG MLG MLG That's all you fags keep saying. Let me ask you this: Are any of you in MLG by chance?







No?






Then why must you try and advocate what you are not apart of? God, you people get more and more bold with each post.



3. WHOA WHOA WHOA Did I say anything about damage? No I didn't. You just completely avoided answering my question. The question was isn't being able to pull out regular-like items as regular moves the same thing as having items in the game. The answer is yes. If you try and say no, you are not only an idiot but trying to change the obvious. You aren't going to get around that fact. "OH BUT LINK'S BOMB DOESN'T DO AS MUCH DAMAGE" You must be blind to the fact that Link's bomb can stop your recovery if it explodes on you while Peach's Stitch Face turnip has an even more powerful contact than even G&W's 9 Sign. Oh but I'm sorry, that has no relevence to your "LESS DAMAGE!"

4. Yes, anyone can throw them but of course, as I can tell with your posting and your friends posting, none of you idiots think to actually use them as weapons.

OMFG WHAT A CONCEPT! LET'S ACTUALLY USE THE BEAM SWORD AS A SWORD AND NOT A PROJECTILE! Also, any item that powers you up can be easily avoided. If you people can't, then you shouldn't be playing Smash at all, let alone trying to defend your ****ty point of view.

5. How bad I suck? XD LOL Come here to VB and I'll put $200 on a Money Match, best 3 out of 5, MLG rules (since I know you need them cause you suck) that I'll whoop your ass. I'm that confident. If you are bitching over item use because you suck, I'd love to see how bad you actually are IRL.

6. Get off of Squeek's nuts and stop sucking your friends' dicks. I can see the cum stains from here, tourneyfags.

[Demon_Lord57]

Originally Posted by Squeek

No, you're not getting it.

Wavedashing... jump dodge down cancel fall = 4 button presses and precise timing.

Running... hold the directional stick forward.

Which one seems to be the way to travel.

Personally, I don't really care to mash 4 buttons in a repeating pattern to gain a slight edge on my opponent. I'd rather we just run.

You're right. I choose not to get any tournament experience. Gaming tournaments are a joke to begin with, and this game in particular is retarded. I refuse to participate in a tournament that sets down stupid rules like "you MUST wavedash to have a chance and items are not allowed because we don't know how to turn off bob-ombs because we're all idiots."

The rules don't state you have to wavedash to have a chance i don't wavedash and i have as good a chance as the guy who wavedashes so don't throw that BS in here. If this game is retarded then why are you even posting in here? But anyway items give to much of an advantage to the person holding them. I can't see how you don't understand this simple fact? Regardless of what it is it could be the weakest weapon the fan...but it still gives some type of advantage...

EDIT: Chromer
i've played since the beginning aswell, every site shows the game as fighting not just wikipedia so you can't win...

May not be MLG but WCG is the same thing... so stop failing.

no pulling out regular-like items is not the same as having items in the game because they are apart of that character. Links bomb may stop your recovery but it gives you the chance to use it again, and as for Peach's stitch face it's rare to get it.

ya everyones first inclination when they pick an item is to throw it...sure...

i'll money match you...no problem

As much as you mention sucking dicks it must be your favorite hobby since you mention it that much...and stop using your made up words it's not cool anymore...

[magister_negi_magi]

Originally Posted by Whole Thread

DRAMA

I figured this was going to be a thread to get away from all the "lolo i liek marth cuz hes like da best n ur chara sux', but I guess not.

[masterhickle]

Hahahahaha. I love it when they get angry like this, and have to start calling us gay, and using "OMG," "***," and similar words at the rate they are. It's so fun to watch.

I'll put some actual thought into a reply later, I just woke up, and I've got a graduation party in 3.5hrs.

Edit : I can't ignore this...
Peach's stitch face has a more powerful contact than G&W's #9 sign? No. It doesn't. G&W's #9 sign has the contact of a normal home run bat (not like Ness's)...it can kill at any percent. Peach's stitch face has the contact of your average smash attack.

[Aperon]

This thread is the reason I don't play anything competetively.

p.s. Items are funny as fuck. I can't imagine how boring the game would be without them.

[slickskater29]

I can believe you actually mensioned link and peach. Peach's turnips balances the fact that she dies at a low % and can be hit of the stage at a lower %. If you take away the projectiles of Link, Y.Link, and Peach, you have the three worst players in the game.

#1 had to get proof, because im sure you would have said: Nu uh guys, its not a fighting game!

#2 playing with people who regularly go to MLG events.

#3 The odds of pulling a stitch face is extremely low. I main peach and on average, id say i pull one every 2-3 matches. It has the knockback of a smash attack, and does 34% dammage. Its not stronger than G&Ws 9, so actually, its YOU who dosnt know what you are talking about.

#4 We don't use items, so I don't give a **** what kind of strategy there is to using them.

#5=biggest hypocritical post ever.

Also, I might not be as good as Ken and Isai but I play with people such as ChuDat, Tope, The_Doug, O-NO, and more. Yeah, I really suck.

How bad I suck? XD LOL Come here to VB and I'll put $200 on a Money Match, best 3 out of 5, MLG rules (since I know you need them cause you suck) that I'll whoop your ass. I'm that confident. If you are bitching over item use because you suck, I'd love to see how bad you actually are IRL.

Ok, let me get this strait. You play regularly with ChuDat, Tope, Doug, O-NO, and more. All are people who use MLG rules. In the other post, you said we use MLG rules because we suck. So from there, i'm going to say that you must be better than ChuDat, Tope, Doug, O-NO, because they suck. Please, just leave now, you dont know what you are saying anymore.

Heres how I think it went. You played with items on and **** for a long time. Then you played ChuDat, Tope, etc, using their rules (MLG) and probably got 4stocked. So then you whine about, "If there were items id pwn u guyz." Thus, you now hate items because, without items on, you stand no chance against anyone. Whats VB?

#6 Sorry, you're right. There, I'm off his nuts, now its easier for you to blow him.Yea we're tourney fags, but you play with them, so doesn't that make you gay too?

[Aperon]

Originally Posted by Aperon

This thread is the reason I don't play anything competetively.

I agree. Why are people even still arguing over this? It's not like anyone's trying to change how anyone else plays the game.

[Aperon]

Originally Posted by Aperon

I agree. Why are people even still arguing over this? It's not like anyone's trying to change how anyone else plays the game.

Well, it's the internet.

[Squeek]

So you basically admit you choose to nerf your gaming experience (AKA, your fun) just to "fairly" compete.

So, wait, what was the point of video games...again?

I swear, even in competitive sporting events, both teams are having... fun. In races, the contenders are having fun. In contests, the contenders are having fun. In Super Smash Brothers Melee contests NOOOOOOOOOOOO WE CAN'T DO THAT IT MAKES IT RANDOM

You know what else is random? That one stitch out of place on a baseball that sends it 0.5 degrees off of your intended mark. That one tire from the manufacturer that might fail on your car and send you from first to last. That small indentation in the dirt on the field that causes you to re-think your step, thus missing your timing on your play.

You have the opportunity to remove ALL of the items in this game that have too much of a random factor to be playable, and you still don't do it. Look, an item menu! Look, there are all the items in the game! Wow, we can turn off bob-ombs! And hammers! And starmen!

Amazing!

But no. Let's just make the game boring. All for the sake of winning a few bucks and some assumed glory among nerds.

[slickskater29]

i have fun without items. You have fun with items. So why are you whining again?

[Squeek]

Video gaming tournaments are lame and everyone who goes to SSBM tournaments seems to have the idealism that items are the root of all evil and bans them?

[MarisaKirisame]

Originally Posted by Squeek

So you basically admit you choose to nerf your gaming experience (AKA, your fun) just to "fairly" compete.

So, wait, what was the point of video games...again?

Competitive gaming in a serious fashion is extremely fun.

In fact, competing seriously in general is extremely fun.

Originally Posted by Squeek

Video gaming tournaments are lame and everyone who goes to SSBM tournaments seems to have the idealism that items are the root of all evil and bans them?

They're a waste of time. This is serious competition. It IS fun for people who enjoy serious competition. The ONLY way we'd have "fair" items is if we turned off everything except pretty much Mr. Saturns, Turnips, etc. and put them on very low. In which case, it'd be more of an annoyance because boxes, barrels, etc. would still show up and get in the way.

Really, it's not like they just start throwing water balloons at people while they're trying to run competitively. It's not like people put freakin' boxes in the way of people trying to run from base to base in baseball. Items just get irritating and completely unnecessary.

[ckj846]

Haha. This made me realize why I never joined a tourney.

First, items are there for a reason. It balances out the game and makes it so that a lower tier character or a lower skilled player can have a chance at beating a higher tier/skilled player. Nintendo didn't want to make a game that was completely unbalanced, and so they implemented items in order to make it much more enjoyable for a BROADER AUDIENCE. You must remember it's a game and whether it ranges from a casual player to a serious player, it is completely irrelevant. Items are part of the game and they don't make it unfair, they do quite the opposite. Sometimes it's better to make things random because it makes the game more interesting and it also makes the players smarter and more skillful. If you see someone with a bomb-omb running at you, it's very easy to just put up your shield or to dodge it. A pokeball? OH NOES just get out of the area effect. All of these excuses that you guys are pulling out of your asses are completely irrelevant because they are all hypothetical situations. It's not like you are running and "Oh! A pokeball in my hand? I BETTER USE IT LAWL" It gives the game a new dimension because now you have to watch your opponent and look out for the environment with the items. And the ability to adapt to different environments is the key to a great gamer. Random? Unfair? To an extent, but a competition always has it's controlled and uncontrolled variables.

I can speak on this part because I'm an athlete. I do swimming and water polo and many things can go wrong. The starting block might be slippery so you slip when you start, your goggles are too tight or too loose so it causes mishaps during the race, the other players don't cut their nails for polo so you have to suck it up throughout the game. This is a true competitor, someone who can adapt to the situation and still come out on top. Stop your whining and get your asses outside and try a REAL competition. Video game tourneys are stupid and pointless, especially if there are limitations. Believe me, taking advantage of the physics of the game is much more "gay" then using what is purposely implemented (and you guys really need to watch your language because you never know who is reading what you're saying. I'm homosexual and the constant reference to sucking each other off and LAWL CUM is very immature and rude).

Get over yourselves. You play a GAME and bitch when something goes wrong. Get your asses outside and play a sport and then come talk to me.

O_o