Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2

[AlexDest]

Originally Posted by t-rogdor

mmmyeah baby i can just smell all the offsync vertex beta resteps

smell that bullshit

100000 bpm epic speedcore

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX

Fractured Sunshine is all that awaits in the future anyways...

Or as Rudi once told me, it's no big deal, no big deal.



You can't even get the basic point, so stop replying with "get off it" and start trying to figure out an actual reasonable response to what I said instead of deleting it.

I didn't delete anything lol. I can't get the basic point? You're pissed off that there was an internal batch that excluded other people, really not much to get. I did give a reasonable response because you're now going "free acceptance for everyone" when that's not the case. Sometimes extra things are needed for events and they still get judged, not just put in. (with exception of what Jae did last tournament but I had no part in that nor do I condone things going in with no review at all)

The files are still looked over and if necessary changes are needed they're made and re-judged. You basically want to hold up events because of "fairness" over a few files that were requested from stepartists that yes are more consistent with their file quality. It's not like the entire event was done off of only files from an internal batch. It takes a lot of time to collect 100 files, get judges to judge them, and judge them. An internal allows us to take people who are more seasoned and get a few files to be looked over by a few judges rather than needing like 12 for a full batch.

But hey lets just stop having events for people because we need to spend too much time doing batches over and over to get the right files. No problem man.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Originally Posted by Choofers

sounds like midnight is upset

i'd even say that

he's mad

You could attempt to argue that I suppose.

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

I didn't delete anything lol. I can't get the basic point? You're pissed off that there was an internal batch that excluded other people, really not much to get. I did give a reasonable response because you're now going "free acceptance for everyone" when that's not the case. Sometimes extra things are needed for events and they still get judged, not just put in. (with exception of what Jae did last tournament but I had no part in that nor do I condone things going in with no review at all)

The files are still looked over and if necessary changes are needed they're made and re-judged. You basically want to hold up events because of "fairness" over a few files that were requested from stepartists that yes are more consistent with their file quality. It's not like the entire event was done off of only files from an internal batch. It takes a lot of time to collect 100 files, get judges to judge them, and judge them. An internal allows us to take people who are more seasoned and get a few files to be looked over by a few judges rather than needing like 12 for a full batch.

But hey lets just stop having events for people because we need to spend too much time doing batches over and over to get the right files. No problem man.

I'm not pissed. I'm confused as to why you all think that's ok to exclude people because of your opinions that they are not good enough to produce a chart in time.

You did miss the point, my complaint is that others of us whom you people (mistakenly) think "aren't worthy" in a sense can't attempt to get their charts in because of pure opinion.

Also, you are absolutely no different than Jae by making one (granted respectable) person view it and then make it a token. You also, like Jae, held internal batches. Explain to me exactly how what you did is any different? Oh sure, one (again respectable) person viewed the chart. Short of having the normal amount view it, you did nothing different than what he did.

And yeah oh no we have to hold more batches and open more opportunities, wow, such a bad thing right?

You, like Jae, and maybe others, shut out the chance for equal opportunity. Which you cannot argue is not fair. CHart's being released on a weekly basis is an event on it's own. So who's to say the batches wouldn't help there?

And also the time frame, was definitely more than enough to run more batches, I can't see time being an issue considering how long in advanced you began planning it, and with the large delay ect. Time is not a viable excuse.

[Charu]

I... don't like where this is going...

If I may chime, if you please.

I think in a less rude fashion, all Midnight's trying to say is if there's a file needed to be done through a quick internal batch, it should be an event so everyone has a chance to throw out a file of there's for something that the tournament doesn't have in its possession.

...I think that's the core of what he meant.

[TC_Halogen]

Middie: I'm really getting sick and tired of you throwing Fractured Sunshine in my face when it was an extenuating circumstance. I'll say it again, and I'll say this time for everyone to see -- if it's such a huge problem that the file is in game as a token, I'll have the file take up one of my simfiles for the next batch and submit it through the regular batch. If it gets rejected, then it can be removed.

I'm not being narcissistic when I say this, but I spent a lot of time refining the chart to make sure it was very consistent and playable at the level that it was presented at, and I have no doubt in my mind that it would get accepted if it was judged fairly.

Don't take it out on me or other simfile artists because you're having trouble getting things in the normal way, when simfile artists like Carlos, hi19, bmah, JX, AlexDest, myself, and others have a strong enough foundation and consistent acceptance rating to be trusted to just have judgment from one of the two head judges -- I guarantee you if any of these simfile artists were to submit something under normal constraints, they would get in very very consistently. In the situation of an extenuating circumstances, things like this have to happen.

EDIT: @ Charu: there wasn't enough time to have something like this because at the start of the tournament, every spot except for the very last round of D6 was filled out right from the bat. You can't try and hold files for a potential tiebreaker every round, because it just doesn't work, especially in later rounds of higher divisions.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Originally Posted by Charu

I... don't like where this is going...

If I may chime, if you please.

I think in a less rude fashion, all Midnight's trying to say is if there's a file needed to be done through a quick internal batch, it should be an event so everyone has a chance to throw out a file of there's for something that the tournament doesn't have in its possession.

...I think that's the core of what he meant.

Then it's not an "internal batch" but you understood what I'm trying to say better than anyone else.

The in short of it, is that it's unfair to do internal batches in the first place, and any charts should have to be put through a batch period.

You might have forgotten this, but batches are pretty scarce. You're pretty much saying that people who aren't "worthy" have to wait in line while the "worthy" ones get to cut in front of everyone else. It's childish like a person holding your place in the lunch line at high school.

I understand completely, yeah it was done in the past, but we're beyond that. We're here now and there's a chance to make a positive change. It seems clear cut to me, but maybe I'm not conveying it correctly.

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Middie: I'm really getting sick and tired of you throwing Fractured Sunshine in my face when it was an extenuating circumstance. I'll say it again, and I'll say this time for everyone to see -- if it's such a huge problem that the file is in game as a token, I'll have the file take up one of my simfiles for the next batch and submit it through the regular batch. If it gets rejected, then it can be removed.

I'm not being narcissistic when I say this, but I spent a lot of time refining the chart to make sure it was very consistent and playable at the level that it was presented at, and I have no doubt in my mind that it would get accepted if it was judged fairly.

I'm gonna throw this in your face till you get it into your head that what you're doing is insulting to some people by skipping the process entirely. You should have said it had to be removed post round anyways. And before Kayla says "you'd take a top 16 prize away from people?" Well one, there are clearly other available charts to fill that chart's void for the prize. So that's not an excuse, and no. I wouldn't have made it a token in the first place. THAT is where you went wrong. You ran a tourney that overall is a step ahead.

Also, I'm tired of you just brushing things off. You're being slightly narcissistic by not having done it the right way in the first place. You need to have it removed before it goes into the batch. AKA Change the prize token to a song that actually went through properly. Despite Aj's chart being more than likely good, that still places it behind the charts that actually had more people look at it. No chart is ever good enough to go in without a batch. Not even Twister (which is my personal favorite chart, it's merely an example.)

lso before anyone says I'm hating on the chart, realize one simple thing... I have no idea what it looks like.

[TC_Halogen]

It's not unfair to do it at all, and assuming as such is absolutely ridiculous. The purpose of an internal batch is to supplement the tournament and nothing else, and it's not necessary to hold a batch and flood the queue with a ton of harder files when only a few slots will need to be filled. Initially, there was only supposed to be one file pulled in, and that was for the final round. There ended up being a second one for the D6 tiebreaker.

I don't know how much clearer I can explain an extenuating circumstance than that.

EDIT: you're just refusing to understand the meaning of an extenuating circumstance, middie. Bold it, italicize it, underline it, put it in size 200 text, make a youtube video of it, hell -- show it on the national news while you're at it. You're not understanding the purpose of it -- it's been done in the past and will be done in the future by anyone who understands that situations happen.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX

I'm not pissed. I'm confused as to why you all think that's ok to exclude people because of your opinions that they are not good enough to produce a chart in time.

You did miss the point, my complaint is that others of us whom you people (mistakenly) think "aren't worthy" in a sense can't attempt to get their charts in because of pure opinion.

Also, you are absolutely no different than Jae by making one (granted respectable) person view it and then make it a token. You also, like Jae, held internal batches. Explain to me exactly how what you did is any different? Oh sure, one (again respectable) person viewed the chart. Short of having the normal amount view it, you did nothing different than what he did.

And yeah oh no we have to hold more batches and open more opportunities, wow, such a bad thing right?

You, like Jae, and maybe others, shut out the chance for equal opportunity. Which you cannot argue is not fair. CHart's being released on a weekly basis is an event on it's own. So who's to say the batches wouldn't help there?

And also the time frame, was definitely more than enough to run more batches, I can't see time being an issue considering how long in advanced you began planning it, and with the large delay ect. Time is not a viable excuse.

You have no idea who looked over the files you're assuming one because we brought up bmah in a post. The lower level files were looked over by 3 people, the final for D6/D7 was looked over by Luis, Rob, bmah, myself, AJ said he was sending to JX not sure if that went or not. I could argue this point further but I'm not going to waste my time.

An internal batch is something that's gone on forever. It's not like it was something Jae invented. You had no complaints when Rave 7 was brought in on the official we did, or any of the other files that were brought in through an internal batch. All of a sudden you're pissed off this time around for whatever reason. Fact is the site has pulled files from more experienced steppers for events for a long time.

Where at all did I ever say that the people aren't "worthy." It's impossible to go through 100's of files all the time and stay on a schedule for events. So people who are more experienced are asked first if they have anything that is finished that fits the difficulty. If they don't others are asked. The very first person I went to actually was Hi19 because he ended up missing the batch due to his power being out from the storm. But I guess that wasn't being very fair either. I should also note that I went to Silvuh because he's almost the only one that actually steps low enough files to cover early D1/D2.

You, like Jae, and maybe others, shut out the chance for equal opportunity. Which you cannot argue is not fair. CHart's being released on a weekly basis is an event on it's own. So who's to say the batches wouldn't help there?

What exactly are you trying to get at with this statement. Files aren't brought in from an internal for the songs of the week and as is we can't get the files out fast enough that are coming in. So why exactly should more batches be held only to have them sit for months on end before ever being released?

Before you go and say "more files for events" in this more batch situation, when it comes to things like the official tournaments there are specific difficulties needed. Even though I directly requested people send in lower level files and some that could be finals for the official when the batch was open I did not get the files needed. I had 3 batches to go through and still we had to pull some outside files in. I mean I had N's farewell on my list to be used but guess what it didn't make acceptance. Not my fault.

And also the time frame, was definitely more than enough to run more batches, I can't see time being an issue considering how long in advanced you began planning it, and with the large delay ect. Time is not a viable excuse.

You're obviously completely clueless as to how much time this really takes if you're seriously sitting here saying this. A single batch alone takes what 6 to 7 weeks to be completed? That's getting the files in, waiting for JX to send the files out, judging time, waiting for JX to give the acceptance ratings, etc. Then after that 6-7 weeks having to sift through 100s of files to figure out what can be used. Converting them to find difficulty because you can't properly rate them looking on SM when FFR conversion can significantly change how a file plays. Then figuring out what fits where in structure so you can figure out what files are missing. You seriously have NO idea the amount of time it takes.

As it was, and I think you were in events chat still when I had mentioned this, I was far behind schedule because of Jae. When the topic of bi-annual tourneys was mentioned and the summer one ended I asked repeatedly what was going on because we needed to start planning then in order to be able to run enough batches to obtain what we needed. It was ignored and ignored till he finally disappeared completely off the site. By the time I was able to even start planning I had about 8 weeks iirc. So please go ahead and tell me how we were going to fit more batches in that time frame when they take at least 6 weeks themselves.

Originally Posted by Charu

I... don't like where this is going...

If I may chime, if you please.

I think in a less rude fashion, all Midnight's trying to say is if there's a file needed to be done through a quick internal batch, it should be an event so everyone has a chance to throw out a file of there's for something that the tournament doesn't have in its possession.

...I think that's the core of what he meant.

He's saying everyone should be involved which means full batches. Which when it comes to events isn't always 100% possible. It takes entirely too much time. Then none the less there's TONS of files sitting still in queue that will take months to release. The official just happens to be something that needs specific difficulties which makes it more complicated.


Edit: Just went to look and see what was left to still be released after the tournament. There are 66 files not being used for the tournament sitting in queue right now. That means 11 weeks of 6 files a week after the tournament just to get those out alone. So if SOTW picks up right out of the tournament and does do 6 a week that means 3 months just to get these files out. I really don't see where more batches are beneficial.

[Charu]

Heh, now that I think about it. It would take a lot of time with the very little time there is to make up a tiebreaker song.

Darn, and I thought I was on to something for a bit.

...

I have an idea for a situation like this. Perhaps at the start of one of these official tournaments. You have this certain "special" batch for stepartists, if they so choose, to submit there stuff specifically for tournament situations in which they do not have a chart available for a specific round (Most likely a tiebreaker if anything).

But wait, there's more!

In order to submit for this special batch, you have to have at least one or two charts already in the game. that way this special batch won't be flooded with hundreds of candidates. They'll still be limited to the cap rate too, but when the judge sends out their notes on their file, they have a chance to send it in again and again and again until they get it right.

If no one submits and or if those files never receive the quality rating. Then if the tournament demands it, conduct an internal batch.

In this way, no one can really complain about charts being added into the game unfairly as its entirely on them not trying to send possible candidates.

...

Also, please don't shoot me down. If this idea is not possible, then I'll take my leave.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Charu

Heh, now that I think about it. It would take a lot of time with the very little time there is to make up a tiebreaker song.

Darn, and I thought I was on to something for a bit.

...

I have an idea for a situation like this. Perhaps at the start of one of these official tournaments. You have this certain "special" batch for stepartists, if they so choose, to submit there stuff specifically for tournament situations in which they do not have a chart available for a specific round (Most likely a tiebreaker if anything).

But wait, there's more!

In order to submit for this special batch, you have to have at least one or two charts already in the game. that way this special batch won't be flooded with hundreds of candidates. They'll still be limited to the cap rate too, but when the judge sends out their notes on their file, they have a chance to send it in again and again and again until they get it right.

If no one submits and or if those files never receive the quality rating. Then if the tournament demands it, conduct an internal batch.

In this way, no one can really complain about charts being added into the game unfairly as its entirely on them not trying to send possible candidates.

...

Also, please don't shoot me down. If this idea is not possible, then I'll take my leave.

Not trying to shoot you down.

It's just again something that's time consuming. Think about how many people have at least 1 chart in game. Then there's still the collaboration between JX and everyone with getting the judges, getting what he decides is acceptance, etc, etc. It would still take an extended amount of time. I try not to start tournaments unless everything is 100% filled which I had to use the internal for that and we still ran into the issue with a tiebreaker. I thought we had something for it but I went through everything in the batch again and it turned out we just didn't. If we were taking a ton of files from an internal I would understand the outrage. But it's seriously a few to fill in some gaps here and there. It's not as big of a thing as it's being made out to be.

I should also make clear that I don't ask people to step something I ask people if they already have something made in the range. I forgot to mention that before when middie said something about assuming people couldn't make a quality chart in time. I go around asking people who have files completed already and that almost always have files completed. (Hi19 is a prime example of someone I turn to for files a lot cause his library is huge lol)

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Replying back to the stuff about my post:

The 8/10 rating thing was just a number thrown out there, wasnt a well thought through number relating to the batch. In a way it wouldnt be a bad thing imo, but then again, it is pretty strict to the point where it really limits the charts getting in for people, especially the chances of those small amount of charts being accepted constantly being charts by the same people.

As for the time range, I guess its the tourn making it seem like the batches are forever apart, but even if it is every two months or whatever we were doing before the official, it feels the process is taking a lot longer than it should be taking. I guess what I was trying to get at is once one batch is completed the next one should be opening and not have that break between them. Guess its back to the suggestion I think I've seen before of having set batch opening dates instead of it opening whenever it opens.

Another suggestion though: Can we make the batches at least go in an alternating pattern? Do like easy batch > normal batch > hard batch, then keep repeating that instead of straight normal batches with the occasional easy/hard batches when we are in dire need of these level of difficulty charts? If we can get batches out and going more frequently it seems like going by this would make sure there is a nice mix of difficulties each week for the releases and when officials are happening.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Plan_Bsk81127

Another suggestion though: Can we make the batches at least go in an alternating pattern? Do like easy batch > normal batch > hard batch, then keep repeating that instead of straight normal batches with the occasional easy/hard batches when we are in dire need of these level of difficulty charts? If we can get batches out and going more frequently it seems like going by this would make sure there is a nice mix of difficulties each week for the releases and when officials are happening.

This 100% It was something I also mentioned in the past. Some said easy batches are boring to judge >.>

[MarioNintendo]

Not to me, at least I'm able to play the songs with autofail on!

[TC_Halogen]

You act as if you're that bad of a player.

[bmah]

Sigh...regardless of my opinion on this subject, there needs to be an acceptable level of respect in any thread, and this ain't cutting it.

[TC_Halogen]

This has gotten ridiculously out of hand for absolutely no reason.

The fact of the matter is this: files have slipped through batch judgment in the past, they will continue to be used when demand for files can't be met in a reasonable time period from when they are needed, and this will not change. The only reason why the internal issue is being brought up is because it's a noticeably hard file in question (Fractured Sunshine, as I mentioned before). No one even knew that the easier files, like Warmish Walkin', Reset, Pembroke Welsh Corgi, Desire Drive [Standard], and Disc Jockey MIKE weren't batch files because they're easier and further under the radar.

The same thing happened in the 6th official -- easier Silvuh files were needed to supplement the start of the tournament and there was absolutely no issue about it, but files like Mermaid Island and Rave7 got noticed because they slipped in when they were needed. The premise of this argument seemingly has nothing to do with files slipping in the cracks, because the easier files always get ignored. It has to do with a file being incredibly difficult that isn't agreed upon in stepping rhetoric, and it's as simple as that.

EDIT: P.S. @ Middie: Trinity wasn't judged either, just to let you know. You didn't have much of an issue when I mentioned that I was working on a file for the beginning of the 2013 year less than one week before it, and you certainly could not have assumed that Trinity was going to be judged in the batch when I mentioned that it was planned to be a new year release. Being selective about complaints doesn't help your cause because you're being biased.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX

Also as I said a few times, I have yet to see fractured sunshine at all. There is no bias. If anything there's a bias for me wanting to keep it as at one point, you where my most respected steppers. So, what you just said is honestly pretty baseless, if not wrong.

You're trying to gather at how I feel emotionally, and claim a bias from that being you and I are not on good terms. That is not the case, and nor is it a case you can argue. Cut that out would you? You're just straw-manning here, and it's not a very good job of it either. You alleviate from my main point, which is that simply put the opportunity to get a chart in game should always be open to everyone, regardless of the circumstances. Kayla got put in a bad spot, that's clear, and not her fault, sure. But there were multiple options that weren't used in favor of the path taken. The main one was postponing the tourney till it was ready properly, which was an option short of synth raining in and saying it wasn't.

The only reason he mentions Fractured Sunshine is because you didn't have a fit till then and there had already been files that went in for the tournament that hadn't gone through the normal batch. You targeted one specific file when going off on a rampage and didn't even notice the others.

There weren't other options because they take too long. Postponing the tourney any further would have meant not doing it at all since there's supposed to be one in the summer. For events to stay on schedule sometimes things like this have to be done. (also something that was mentioned in the event chat)

Since you decided to "block me" rather than speak with me through PMs. I was going to propose a challenge for you. You guys have the blaze engine now so prep up a tourney of 6 divisions and 8 rounds using batches like FFR would. Do not specify any difficulties because that's not how the batches are run. Obtain every file you'd need to fill the entire tournament plus anything for any chance of a tiebreaker. Then come back and tell me how long it took you to get those files. Oh and they have to be of the quality that FFR would accept as well.

[Arkuski]

I'm reading this on the toilet and I am having a great time.

[Wayward Vagabond]

All of you are so stupid

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

All of you are so stupid

nou <3