Cloned Food.

**MixMasterLar** · 01-9-2007, 12:31 PM

Would you eat meat and milk from a cloned cow? Why/Why not?

It seems that the US has OK'ed it and people here are worried about it. I myself do not know much about cloning so Im unsure of the idea. My family is turning Vegitarian (uck!) and I just want to know what everybody else's thoughts were.

PS---Here a vid on it from the BBC. It's not the best thing ever but if you never heard of this (like me up untill now) then check it out. I also got all my info from the BBC radio. Click here for the Vid. you might aslo want to check out the website a bit, too.

**Squeek** · 01-9-2007, 12:36 PM

Been going on for years already.

The idea behind it is to take the best of the pick (the best apple or the best cow, either way) and use that to duplicate the results. I mean, if 10% of your cow pasture will become grade "A" meat, then why not take that 10% and make it 100%?

The same goes with apple trees. If you have a tree that's producing higher-quality apples than another three, then logically you'd want that tree in multitudes and the other three to be eradicated.

We're just technologically putting forth natural selection. That's all.

UberMario · 01-9-2007, 12:52 PM

Didn't Dolly the sheep die abnormally?

**JasonKey** · 01-9-2007, 01:19 PM

Dolly was the first "success" .. consider it more like the first run of game consoles .. more recalls

The primary downside to this is the lack of biodiversity in fields. We had problems with it in the past (corn and potato blights most notably). 1 disease that targets the clone's would wipe out the entire crop / herd.

As far as I am concerned, cloning is more a research exercise. Using cloning methods to isolate and reproduce specific genes is clearly the best result of the research. Then spreading these genes rapidly using these clones will provide benefits for everyone.

Milk from a cloned cow? Sure why not. Milk = Milk. Our bodies are not differentiating between the producers genes, unless the product is somehow tainted.

**travman301** · 01-9-2007, 01:33 PM

Cloned animals can offer so much more than just extra food. Scientists can make it so a cloned cow's milk has special emzymes or vitamins that we wouldn't get normally. We could make cows so that their milk had vaccines in them. The possibilites are endless.

However, the cloning prsocess is much to expensive to fathom something like this on a large scale presently.

**MixMasterLar** · 01-9-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeek

Been going on for years already.

I know cloning has been happening for years, the BBC reported that cloned meat was good to eat in 2003. What's new is that they selling it to my Wal-Mart with out a label. That erks me, seeing as I dont know much about cloning to begin with, is that they pass a law saying that not only is it good (or even better) for people to have but also that the cloned meat doesnt have to be labeled!

But what your saying is, that cloned meat shouldnt be diffrent from splicing apple trees (or whatever you call that, Im not a famer). Im sorry for my lack of knowlegde, but Im still not sure...

Does anyone know of a test they did? As far as I know, it's illegal to test on humans in the USA.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonKey

Milk = Milk. Our bodies are not differentiating between the producers genes, unless the product is somehow tainted.

That's my Q right there. What's the chances of it being tainted?

RandomPscho · 01-9-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

That's my Q right there. What's the chances of it being tainted?

If you clone a whole cow and the milk is tainted (in a bad way) i would be almost 100% there is a lot more wrong with it. But if not, I doubt the milk would be legal to sell in the USA because FDA would probably check it and there would be news etc. so it wouldnt go under the radar of the public.

sherbtail · 01-9-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeek

Been going on for years already.

The idea behind it is to take the best of the pick (the best apple or the best cow, either way) and use that to duplicate the results. I mean, if 10% of your cow pasture will become grade "A" meat, then why not take that 10% and make it 100%?

The same goes with apple trees. If you have a tree that's producing higher-quality apples than another three, then logically you'd want that tree in multitudes and the other three to be eradicated.

We're just technologically putting forth natural selection. That's all.

That's called artificial selection, and has been going on for years
however selling meat/products from cloned animals has yet to be approved by the FDA in America, so I don't know how your local Wal-Mart has it... Its currently going through the approval process, although according to a recent poll to public opinion in America the bill is going to have a rough time being passed

**Cavernio** · 01-9-2007, 07:38 PM

Breeding has essentially been doing the same thing that genetic modification does. It just uses different methods in doing so. Breeding and selecting for milk production or quality of meat or anything else under the sun is already done. So in terms of what you're actually getting and harming yourself, there's no reason why using other means of getting the same results should cause the food to harm you in any way, shape, or form. In fact, it's being done because of so many potential benefits.
If you're concerned about what you eat though, I strongly suggest looking into what growth hormones are fed into which brands of meat. Although I don't think there's any hard evidence out there for this, some people say that the growth hormones stay in the food and then are fed to us.
You should also have a much larger concern for the amount of antibiotics which are fed to the animals which we eat, not only in terms of us getting antiobiotics needlessly put into our bodies and what effect they may have on us, but also because bacteria develop resistances so quickly, and overuse of antiobiotics simply speeds up the bacterias' resistances to them, and we have to scurry and find new antiobiotics faster.
Both of these issues are obviously controlled for by the FDA, but its certainly not required on any labels, and no one seems to care that they get food that's been pumped full of chemicals, yet changing a pig's genes so it produces less nitrates so they pollute less has become a concern and an ethical issue and apparently has a lot of bearing on whether or not you eat that pig's meat.
Cloning in the true sense of the word doesn't work well for animals at all because, as with the Dolly example, she died early and had a lot of problems, essentially because she retained the same age as the sheep she was cloned from. Cloning has a looooooong way to develop before becoming an economically viable thing to do.

As to your concern for genetic modification 'tainting' food, all food will go under the same inspection processes, and if it's tainted, it won't be put on the shelf.

**MixMasterLar** · 01-10-2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sherbtail

That's called artificial selection, and has been going on for years
however selling meat/products from cloned animals has yet to be approved by the FDA in America, so I don't know how your local Wal-Mart has it... Its currently going through the approval process, although according to a recent poll to public opinion in America the bill is going to have a rough time being passed

The BBC reported that in late December the US govenment and FDA passed a law allowing food products/by-products from cloned animals to be sold with out a label. My Wal-Mart does not have it yet (hopefully) but I assume it will be soon (I will not know when they have it; unlabeled, remember?)

Cavernio, I hear you. But I have heard that farmers will be changing the genetics of the animals for hearth reasons, SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME IF THAT'S TRUE. Also, breeding has a male and female, while cloning only has one or the other. Maybe that doesnt matter, I dont know.

RandomPscho · 01-10-2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Also, breeding has a male and female, while cloning only has one or the other. Maybe that doesnt matter, I dont know.

Does it matter? Cloning and sex make the same thing, just in cloning the offspring (is that the right word?) are an exact replica of the parent while the offspring of sexual reproduction have the traits of two parents. So it is like controlled evolution, which I do not think is bad as we a making animals to fit our needs and make our species stronger (sort of creepy sounding though).

**MixMasterLar** · 01-10-2007, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Does anyone know of a test they did? As far as I know, it's illegal to test on humans in the USA.

Im J/W...

**Cavernio** · 01-10-2007, 08:40 PM

Again, cloning, meaning involving only 1 animal, despite what the news thingy says, I'm pretty sure isn't viable for general food production purposes yet.

As to your male/female thing, there's a whooooole lotta life out there that doesn't reproduce using a male and a female. Now I know that plants and bacteria and hydras and all these other types of life aren't animals, and that that's what they've evolved into doing, but what does that matter?

Ok, you're worried farmers are changing animal's genetics for health reasons? Well, I gave an example where at the the University of Guelph, they were trying to make a breed of pig who didn't produce as much nitrates in their feces, thereby making the pig farmer's land better. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we're already being fed a breed of pig whose genes have artificially been changed in such a way. Its not cloning, but its physically altering genes of a few pigs and then breeding them so that they pass on their gene.

I think its my turn to ask you a question though: What exactly are you concerned about? What are you worried about if it were cloned? Is it cloning itself which you distressing and immoral? Are you worried that a cloned animal somehow wouldn't be as 'real' or alive as one bred in normal circumstances? Are you worried that cloning changes an animal such that eating it's meat could harm you? Are you upset because you think we're changing nature too much, and you don't want to live with technology breathing down your neck?

**MixMasterLar** · 01-11-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavernio

I think its my turn to ask you a question though: What exactly are you concerned about? What are you worried about if it were cloned? Is it cloning itself which you distressing and immoral? Are you worried that a cloned animal somehow wouldn't be as 'real' or alive as one bred in normal circumstances? Are you worried that cloning changes an animal such that eating it's meat could harm you? Are you upset because you think we're changing nature too much, and you don't want to live with technology breathing down your neck?

I dont care if it's cloned or not. Yes, Im anti-clone when it comes to humans, but the idea of eating meat from a cloned animal does not worrie me at all. What does is this:

A) This is untested to the best of my knowlege....There are studies but as far as tests go I havent found them (does not mean that it hasnt been tested, just that I havent found it.)

B) Sheep's will not be cloned for food. BBC reported that the genes in sheep change so it's not healthy to eat (Cows need to be changed as well for same reasons so im told, but I havent confirrimed if that's true). I dont know the diffence between Cow meat and Sheep meat other then the animal it's from. Now as far as I know there may be a hundreds of reasons why that is, I dont know so Im asking

C) My family is turning vegitarian after hearing this and BY GOD I WANT TO KNOW IF I HAVE TO EAT TUFU! So do me a fav and answer these Qs. Most of them arnt mine but my family's, as I said, the idea of eating cloned meat doesnt borther me.

So yes, we are worried that cloning changes an animal such that eating it's meat harms people.

Now when it comes to humans being cloned I have a strong moral ojection, but that's a CT thread for another day.

**Cavernio** · 01-11-2007, 02:34 PM

Sorry, I am unaware of testing involved in security of cloned meat. Do some research at a University.

**MixMasterLar** · 01-11-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavernio

Sorry, I am unaware of testing involved in security of cloned meat. Do some research at a University.

Real Funny. Thread over, we've gone over all options then

**Cavernio** · 01-14-2007, 08:57 PM

You should learn how to do your own research. I mean, you can even probably find a blog somewhere that's solely about this stuff, with tons of opinions, articles, and links to exactly what you want. I'd bet you $ on that. Take a half hour from your day and explore!

**stretchypanda** · 01-14-2007, 09:08 PM

She's right, you know. You could probably wiki the pros and cons of cloning food.

**MixMasterLar** · 01-18-2007, 06:45 PM

Ok, Thanks, I'll do that....Im sorry for being angry at you.

01-9-2007, 12:31 PM	#1
MixMasterLar Beach Bum Extraordinaire Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The Emerald Coast Posts: 5,220	Cloned Food. Would you eat meat and milk from a cloned cow? Why/Why not? It seems that the US has OK'ed it and people here are worried about it. I myself do not know much about cloning so Im unsure of the idea. My family is turning Vegitarian (uck!) and I just want to know what everybody else's thoughts were. PS---Here a vid on it from the BBC. It's not the best thing ever but if you never heard of this (like me up untill now) then check it out. I also got all my info from the BBC radio. Click here for the Vid. you might aslo want to check out the website a bit, too. __________________ Facebook / Youtube / Twitter .

01-9-2007, 12:36 PM	#2
Squeek let it snow~ Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 37 Posts: 14,444	Re: Cloned Food. Been going on for years already. The idea behind it is to take the best of the pick (the best apple or the best cow, either way) and use that to duplicate the results. I mean, if 10% of your cow pasture will become grade "A" meat, then why not take that 10% and make it 100%? The same goes with apple trees. If you have a tree that's producing higher-quality apples than another three, then logically you'd want that tree in multitudes and the other three to be eradicated. We're just technologically putting forth natural selection. That's all.

01-9-2007, 12:52 PM	#3
UberMario FFR Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Plus I'm hungry for ****. Age: 23 Posts: 1,777	Re: Cloned Food. Didn't Dolly the sheep die abnormally? __________________ That's cool Mario, but how come whenever you eat mushrooms, everything gets bigger but your dick?

01-9-2007, 01:33 PM	#5
travman301 #swagdog Join Date: Mar 2004 Age: 33 Posts: 2,641	Re: Cloned Food. Cloned animals can offer so much more than just extra food. Scientists can make it so a cloned cow's milk has special emzymes or vitamins that we wouldn't get normally. We could make cows so that their milk had vaccines in them. The possibilites are endless. However, the cloning prsocess is much to expensive to fathom something like this on a large scale presently.

01-9-2007, 07:38 PM	#9
Cavernio sunshine and rainbows Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 41 Posts: 1,987	Re: Cloned Food. Breeding has essentially been doing the same thing that genetic modification does. It just uses different methods in doing so. Breeding and selecting for milk production or quality of meat or anything else under the sun is already done. So in terms of what you're actually getting and harming yourself, there's no reason why using other means of getting the same results should cause the food to harm you in any way, shape, or form. In fact, it's being done because of so many potential benefits. If you're concerned about what you eat though, I strongly suggest looking into what growth hormones are fed into which brands of meat. Although I don't think there's any hard evidence out there for this, some people say that the growth hormones stay in the food and then are fed to us. You should also have a much larger concern for the amount of antibiotics which are fed to the animals which we eat, not only in terms of us getting antiobiotics needlessly put into our bodies and what effect they may have on us, but also because bacteria develop resistances so quickly, and overuse of antiobiotics simply speeds up the bacterias' resistances to them, and we have to scurry and find new antiobiotics faster. Both of these issues are obviously controlled for by the FDA, but its certainly not required on any labels, and no one seems to care that they get food that's been pumped full of chemicals, yet changing a pig's genes so it produces less nitrates so they pollute less has become a concern and an ethical issue and apparently has a lot of bearing on whether or not you eat that pig's meat. Cloning in the true sense of the word doesn't work well for animals at all because, as with the Dolly example, she died early and had a lot of problems, essentially because she retained the same age as the sheep she was cloned from. Cloning has a looooooong way to develop before becoming an economically viable thing to do. As to your concern for genetic modification 'tainting' food, all food will go under the same inspection processes, and if it's tainted, it won't be put on the shelf. Last edited by Cavernio; 01-9-2007 at 07:44 PM..

01-10-2007, 08:40 PM	#13
Cavernio sunshine and rainbows Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 41 Posts: 1,987	Re: Cloned Food. Again, cloning, meaning involving only 1 animal, despite what the news thingy says, I'm pretty sure isn't viable for general food production purposes yet. As to your male/female thing, there's a whooooole lotta life out there that doesn't reproduce using a male and a female. Now I know that plants and bacteria and hydras and all these other types of life aren't animals, and that that's what they've evolved into doing, but what does that matter? Ok, you're worried farmers are changing animal's genetics for health reasons? Well, I gave an example where at the the University of Guelph, they were trying to make a breed of pig who didn't produce as much nitrates in their feces, thereby making the pig farmer's land better. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we're already being fed a breed of pig whose genes have artificially been changed in such a way. Its not cloning, but its physically altering genes of a few pigs and then breeding them so that they pass on their gene. I think its my turn to ask you a question though: What exactly are you concerned about? What are you worried about if it were cloned? Is it cloning itself which you distressing and immoral? Are you worried that a cloned animal somehow wouldn't be as 'real' or alive as one bred in normal circumstances? Are you worried that cloning changes an animal such that eating it's meat could harm you? Are you upset because you think we're changing nature too much, and you don't want to live with technology breathing down your neck?

01-11-2007, 02:34 PM	#15
Cavernio sunshine and rainbows Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 41 Posts: 1,987	Re: Cloned Food. Sorry, I am unaware of testing involved in security of cloned meat. Do some research at a University.

01-14-2007, 08:57 PM	#17
Cavernio sunshine and rainbows Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 41 Posts: 1,987	Re: Cloned Food. You should learn how to do your own research. I mean, you can even probably find a blog somewhere that's solely about this stuff, with tons of opinions, articles, and links to exactly what you want. I'd bet you $ on that. Take a half hour from your day and explore!

01-14-2007, 09:08 PM	#18
stretchypanda shock me shock me Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Texas Age: 39 Posts: 4,123	Re: Cloned Food. She's right, you know. You could probably wiki the pros and cons of cloning food.

01-18-2007, 06:45 PM	#19
MixMasterLar Beach Bum Extraordinaire Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The Emerald Coast Posts: 5,220	Re: Cloned Food. Ok, Thanks, I'll do that....Im sorry for being angry at you. __________________ Facebook / Youtube / Twitter .

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