Is it wrong to be gay?

[fido123]

Let's pretend Christianity is false...what is logically wrong with homosexuals?

[Flaming_Dingleberry]

Holy crap, the only helpful quality of this thread is training for the insanely intelligent people to just get as close as possible to proving Christians wrong, even though that's comparable to the speed of light; you can get close, but nothing can reach it. The only difference is an object's speed is limited by something other than ignorance.

[The-Persian-King]

As my username reveals, I'm Persian (Iranian), we have pretty much no homosexuals in Iran, and if there is one, they woudnt be treated the same as straight people. It's kind of a religious thing, my parents also think it's a bit wrong to be gay and that's because they have been taught to think like that, from their parents and their parents from their parents and all the way to their ancestors. BUT, if I could express my own opinion I'd say that being gay is abseloutely ok, one of my best friends is gay, as long as I know he's not in love with me ( I hope not, cause he's cool and I have fun hanging out with him). You might find me racist or something like that, but consider this, some gay guy comes up to you in public and says "Hey, babe". Since then, many people think that I'M ALSO gay, including a few girls. I think that if you are gay, you shouldn't just go around and say "hey babe" to random guys. This could mislead other people to think that the other person is gay too. What I mean is that you should investigate and find out wether the person is gay or not, THEN go and say hi babe to them. Sorry if I have offended you in anyway, but I just wanted to give you my point of view on gay people.

[Mollocephalus]

Originally Posted by fido123

Let's pretend Christianity is false...what is logically wrong with homosexuals?

if you pretend for a second christianity is false you basically take away the last strive of legitimacy religious people hold on to. there's no logic in any of that. religion in its very basic concept is against logic.

also gay people who go around and say hey babe to you are just as annoying as guys saying hay babe to some walking by girl, and vice versa. that has nothing to do with being gay at all. it's like saying all men are utter crap because some are utter crap (although there are women that believe this LoL!)

[Paqrat]

Originally Posted by fido123

Let's pretend Christianity is false...what is logically wrong with homosexuals?

First off you can't just pretend christiantity isn't false.
Firstly, scientists in all their knowledge cannot, and I put this out there right now, CANNOT understand how a feather would have evolved from nothing. People take the THEORY of evolution and try and turn it into fact. What they don't tell you is that Darwin used skeletons of other creatures to try and prove his theory of evolution.
Even the bird, 'Darwins Bird', is what you could call evolutionary, but its not. It is an adapting bird that adapts to the world around it.

Secondly, if you believe in evolution I have a few words for you; if you take a watch, completely disassamble it, throw it in a bucket and slosh it around for three-hundred hours in the bucket, do you think its going to go back together? Or create something new?

Thirdly, the Human body.
It seems simple, the hand the legimates, but what they don't tell you is that it is scientifically impossible for the Feather of a bird, and the eye of any creature to have evolved. Sure you can have your oppinion, but evolution was thought up by 1 man. One man who hated christianty after his daughter died.
If you read through the bible, Darwin would have been deemed an anti-christ. And he is, he set out to try and prove christianity false.
But he didn't. In fact he proved it. And scientists still can't figure out a seemingly simple feather.

[Pyroshock]

Originally Posted by Paqrat

Secondly, if you believe in evolution I have a few words for you; if you take a watch, completely disassamble it, throw it in a bucket and slosh it around for three-hundred hours in the bucket, do you think its going to go back together? Or create something new?

That doesn't make any sense. A watch is created by man out of metals. It doesn't even have any organic compounds. Why would one even expect it to do anything but sit there?

Originally Posted by Paqrat

Thirdly, the Human body.
It seems simple, the hand the legimates, but what they don't tell you is that it is scientifically impossible for the Feather of a bird, and the eye of any creature to have evolved. Sure you can have your oppinion, but evolution was thought up by 1 man. One man who hated christianty after his daughter died.
If you read through the bible, Darwin would have been deemed an anti-christ. And he is, he set out to try and prove christianity false.
But he didn't. In fact he proved it. And scientists still can't figure out a seemingly simple feather.

Could you please provide me a link to this feather conundrum? I did a quick Google search and the first thing I found was this:

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/dino...a/feathers.php

[Paqrat]

I'm going to call bs on that play.
I meant the very usage of feathers. How they operate, how they can turn and change. They're not just 'hollow tubes' that formed. They have small blood particles stemming through them.
The feathers wouldn't have formed slowly. Weather wouldn't of dictated it or make any sense. Thats like saying, "Oh you have two legs, but you have to wait 15 years for them to grow in."

[Mollocephalus]

hey paqrat i have made a graph for you maybe now you'll understand



i hope you realize that holding on to things that aren't yet proved and insert god there isn't a good way to get your point across.

[Izzy]

Did paqrat just say darwin "proved" the bible? This thread is officially dead.

Originally Posted by Paqrat

....Serial killers do not claim to gain magical insight by God to butcher children. Most if not all claim to have gained the power from demons or satanic rituals.
And the point on gay lifestyles IS wrong from Godly and Religious point of view. It says clearly in Romans 1:18--32
Verse 32 says: '"Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them."'

This is a scripture of the end times of this world. This clearly describes the time of the end, and before any of you refute me and say 'thats not in the Bible', read Romans 1:18--32.

And another thing, the thing about gays having no control over their sexuality is complete crock, its an excuse like everything else; one gay activist said plainly: "The choice to being gay or homosexual...is like that of buying a new car."
60% if not more homosexuals CHOOSE to be gay, it is not something forced upon them, even with inadequet hormones it is not a true scientific proof that it is the cause of homosexuality.

I don't hate gay people but I don't approve of their life style either.

I like the complete falsehood of your information. Many serial killers do claim to kill for the name of god and their beliefs and only a very very small handful of people actually choose to be gay. It is something obtained from birth. I don't quite understand what is driving you to believing in false information. But if you want to believe something that is incorrect just to keep yourself happy then be my guest and ignore the truth.

In other words, you just made everything you said up and you have zero credibility now.

[Paqrat]

I'll put it downright plainly, the bible describes everything thats going on in the world today, everything.
I didn't just wake up one day and become the way I am, unlike you who just believe in something that a single person dreamt up is crock. And yes it is a choice to be gay, I could choose to go out and date a man right now, but I don't.
People who say they didn't have a choice are making up an excuse, I have homosexual feelings but I don't act on them. I have had desires to be with men, but I choose not to.
So don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I have been there, I've been on that road, and after I started reading and understanding the bible I stopped, and I made my choice to be a christian and read something that actually makes sense.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by Paqrat

First off you can't just pretend christiantity isn't false.

When someone says "Assume X and then consider Y" it is what is called a THOUGHT EXPERIMENT, and if you personally cannot manage to consider IF christianity were false, what would follow from that, then I'm feeling like you're in the wrong subforum to have a discussion. When you can do things like "Assume a frictionless vacuum" (which doesn't exist) or "Assume a world in which women ran all nations"" (which doesn't exist) and then consider the implications that would follow from that, you're doing philosophy. You're conducting a thought experiment and that is a very valuable logical tool. You can absolutely pretend christianity is false, just like you can pretend it is true. It is not -proven- to be true OR false, so all you're doing is considering what might be implied by replacing one supposition by its opposite.

Firstly, scientists in all their knowledge cannot, and I put this out there right now, CANNOT understand how a feather would have evolved from nothing.

Then it's a good thing that scientists don't believe a feather evolved out of nothing.

People take the THEORY of evolution and try and turn it into fact. What they don't tell you is that Darwin used skeletons of other creatures to try and prove his theory of evolution.

Yes, because more creatures than just humans evolve. All life evolves, why wouldn't he look at "other creatures" when developing the theory of evolution?

Even the bird, 'Darwins Bird', is what you could call evolutionary, but its not. It is an adapting bird that adapts to the world around it.

That's what the word evolution means. "You'd call it evolutionary, but it's not, it just evolves" is what you said.

Secondly, if you believe in evolution I have a few words for you; if you take a watch, completely disassamble it, throw it in a bucket and slosh it around for three-hundred hours in the bucket, do you think its going to go back together? Or create something new?

It will absolutely create something new, it will create a mixed pile of watch parts. I see what you're -trying- to suggest here, but it doesn't work because a) Non-oraganic non-life doesn't evolve, so pointing out that non-organic non-life doesn't evolve is meaningless and b) You're mixing your analogies. The watchmaker analogy is built to try and show why you think that humans couldn't have been the product of evolution "because humans are made up of a bunch of small parts working in a complex way" but that does not remotely constitute any kind of proof of anything.

Thirdly, the Human body.
It seems simple, the hand the legimates, but what they don't tell you is that it is scientifically impossible for the Feather of a bird, and the eye of any creature to have evolved.

Now you're just wrong. They've actually scientifically proven the opposite, that you can develop an eye through the process of natural selection through something as small as 100 generations, each time, the newer form towards a modern eye being more useful to the species' survival than the previous iteration. The usual addendum to the "eyes evolving" objection of theists is "What use is half an eye?" but that's actually been proven to be much more useful than no eye at all.

Sure you can have your oppinion, but evolution was thought up by 1 man. One man who hated christianty after his daughter died.

The theory of natural selection isn't even the same thing as "Evolution" and suggesting that evolution is problematic because it was theorized by one person is to suggest that gravity is problematic, and thermodynamics, and polio vaccinations, and oh wait, Jesus was also 1 man.

If you read through the bible, Darwin would have been deemed an anti-christ. And he is, he set out to try and prove christianity false.
But he didn't. In fact he proved it.

I deny that Darwin would have been deemed an anti-christ at all. He didn't oppose the tenets of christianity in any of his writings. The IMPLICATION of the theory of natural selection is one that runs counter to the teachings of many fundamental christians, but I direct your attention to the fact that the pope (though I guess if you aren't catholic, you don't really care) had acknowledged the extreme liklihood that the theory of evolution was a correct model. Evolution isn't even directly opposed to creationism. The evolutionary process could be occuring according to rules and laws set down by God, or by the direct guidance of God without making the process of evolution false.

[devonin]

I'll put it downright plainly, the bible describes everything thats going on in the world today, everything.

Evidence please?

And yes it is a choice to be gay, I could choose to go out and date a man right now, but I don't.
People who say they didn't have a choice are making up an excuse, I have homosexual feelings but I don't act on them. I have had desires to be with men, but I choose not to.

Ooh semnatic failure. What you're actually saying here is that it is a choice whether or not to act on homosexual feelings, which is true. What you are -not- saying here is that it is a choice whether or not to be homosexual. Let me rephrase: The statements you have JUST made, yourself, right now, amount to "You can have no choice at all whether or not you -are- gay, you just have a choice, if gay, whether or not to -act- gay" which is completely not what you were trying to argue earlier.

[Paqrat]

Originally Posted by devonin

Yes, because more creatures than just humans evolve. All life evolves, why wouldn't he look at "other creatures" when developing the theory of evolution?.

Thats not my point, he mixed bones of other creatures together, one of his skeletons he "discovered" was proven to be the mixed compilation of several dinosaurs into one skeleton.

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by Paqrat

People who say they didn't have a choice are making up an excuse, I have homosexual feelings but I don't act on them. I have had desires to be with men, but I choose not to.

For some reason devonin doesn't believe you are trolling. If you aren't then I'd just like to point out that you are homosexual or bisexual. It seems unfortunate that you are a self hating homosexual who is part of a religion that is intolerant to your sexual orientation.

[Paqrat]

Wtfreakin crap?
My analogy was that people who claim that their only choice to be gay is a lie. I've been down that road and I hate myself for it.
I don't make up excuses unless what you say is a crock. and thats just about it. You can be a homosexual or you can choose to be straight. Its a human choice. I was never forced to be gay, and people who continue on that road start to accept, even consent with something that was absolutely frowned upon twenty years ago.
And still no one has quoted me on Romans 1:18-32.
That is what I was talking about in my main post. So whatever, I'm going outside, I'm not going to reason on something when I'm the only one opposed against something.

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by Paqrat

I'm not going to reason on something when I'm the only one opposed against something.

That's why you are a christian. You refuse to understand the world and you just want everything you believe to be true.

[MrRubix]

This kid has got to be trolling. Not only is he morally retarded, but he doesn't even understand evolution.

[devonin]

Well, whether he's trolling or not, he's now broken the rules of the CT forum, and can stop posting for a period of one week while he brushes up on the LAW

[Flaming_Dingleberry]

My absolute favorite part of this thread:

Originally Posted by devonin

10 immense objections to Paqrat's logic

Originally Posted by Paqrat

Response in defense toward just one objection

<3

P.S. I'm straight, there is no choice in this matter, I have never (and can't imagine ever) feeling emotionally/sexually connected to a man.

I know this to be true, it is a fact.

Now if this is true, how could it be any different for homosexuals? I understand you're one of those cases that chose it (Paqrat), but you weren't born that way. You should stop pretending to know this situation from experience.

[rqm]

Originally Posted by Paqrat

Wtfreakin crap?
My analogy was that people who claim that their only choice to be gay is a lie. I've been down that road and I hate myself for it.
I don't make up excuses unless what you say is a crock. and thats just about it. You can be a homosexual or you can choose to be straight. Its a human choice. I was never forced to be gay, and people who continue on that road start to accept, even consent with something that was absolutely frowned upon twenty years ago.
And still no one has quoted me on Romans 1:18-32.
That is what I was talking about in my main post. So whatever, I'm going outside, I'm not going to reason on something when I'm the only one opposed against something.

bro

hate to break it to you but it's really not a choice my man. when did you choose to be straight? why did my aunt date dudes through college then start having dreams about being with women and eventually realize that she would be happy in a loving relationship with a woman? its not a choice - its how youre born. you can state all the bible versus condemning homosexuals that you want: it doesnt change the fact that theres nothing wrong with being gay. the real reason youre not going to "reason on [this]" is because youre a god forsaken salad-tossing moron