Final Fantasy XIV

[MalReynolds]

Sure, you can argue to death, but aslo, 74%.

[Archelos]

You'd better fix that typo.

Squeek might get on your case about it.

[MalReynolds]

A-S-L-O

Acute
Serious
Linguistic
Offense

I know what I'm doing.

[ShAiOnEi]

Hahahaha! Wow this thread makes me smile aslo we should talk more about the thread title.

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by MrRubix

I don't play Wow, but are the 20-hour long boss battles actually epic or just long-grind-repeat-style.

I don't know if you mis-read my post or just typed yours in a strange way. FF 11 is the game with the 20+ hour boss fights. The longest fight in WoW takes no more than 15 minutes. And yes, it feels just as epic.

Originally Posted by Archelos

And nobody is ever going to tell you this. You know why? Because there's no solid reasoning that makes one person like one thing or another. How can you describe the reason you like the taste of something? How can you explain someone's taste? People like it for whatever reason. Who the **** cares why?

Sure, go ahead and come to every Final Fantasy thread and bash the game every time fans of the series want to come around and talk about it. Does that make you big, now that you've delivered your obviously more REFINED and even CORRECT opinion to these simpletons, who aren't cultured and experienced enough to understand the value of a REAL RPG? Are you much bigger than them now, Squeek?

Why is it so hard? I listed every reason as to why I loved the Tales franchise. Took me three minutes.

I care, because in my mind, you're all just playing it because it has "Final Fantasy" in the title!

I'm not trying to say "LOL THE GAMES YOU PLAY SUCK", I'm trying to say "Are you sure the games you are playing are good?", because it's human nature to repeatedly buy sequels in a franchise just because it's yet another _________ game. I'm trying to issue a wake-up call. FF12 was bad by so many industry standards, yet it still amassed millions of sales. Why are so many people playing bad games? It's because the title has "Final Fantasy" in it!

(By industry standards, I mean people who are paid for their opinions to be published in a nationally-recognized media outlet.)

Are you that naive about the how the video game industry works? Atlus specifically has been making video games since 1986. Yeah, it really looks like they're going to just suddenly say "Well we don't sell as much as FINAL FANTASY so what's the point of expressing all of our creativity, getting our stories and ideas out there, and challenging our fans yet again because THIS SERIES sells more than us." Yep, 23 years and they're gonna start saying that JUST NOW.

As for Namco-Bandai, you've gotta be kidding me. Namco's Tales series is consistently a greatest hits, even across different consoles, and Namco frequently makes games out of various anime, such as Naruto and .hack, so I really don't think you need to worry about interest in that case since the interest in making the game is completely parallel from how well it will compare to FINAL FANTASY, or any other game, for that matter.

http://www.google.com/search?q=economic+crisis

Where are these statistics? I see you repeat the word statistics, and then you don't throw out a single link to back yourself up. Here's a statistic: 5 out of 7 people who dislike the Final Fantasy series dislike it simply based on the fact that it does well. They don't have to actually like or dislike the games, they just have to see something that is far beyond a cult following and they're already against it. That's a STATISTIC that I have to back me up against Final Fantasy haters. Thankfully, I don't have to give any links to my statistics; I can just say the word STATISTIC and I'm gold.

To end this, I'm not a Final Fantasy fan myself. I like 6, 7, and Tactics. The end. I dislike 5, 8, 9, 10, never played the rest of them because I lost interest, and I don't plan to. But not even I am a big enough asshole to go to every ****ing Final Fantasy thread people make and start trolling up a storm in front of all the fans about how bad it is. And I've been banned... what, twice already? (Interesting note: I'm not a mod and you are.) Your opinion is golden, Squeek, it really is. The way you type out all of your posts in perfect grammar noting STATISTICS every so often makes you correct. Now give the ****in crusade a break, bro. People come to these threads to talk about the game, not hear you bash it time and time again.

Do you know who the NPD is? The NPD is an organization that tracks sales numbers of media. One of the media they track is the sale of video games. Then all of this information is released to the masses and we can add up all the monthly sales in each region and reach a grand total. But wait! There's more! Japan has their own media tracker that tracks sales on a weekly basis! Europe has their own too! So, I can tell you how many units each of these games have sold since launch! STATISTICS!

Tales of Vesperia: 310,000 units sold
Tales of the Abyss: 570,000 units sold
Persona 3: 430,000 units sold
Disgaea 2: 200,000 units sold
Final Fantasy X: 7,950,000 units sold

You don't think that's a LITTLE skewed?

The numbers aren't perfect as the demand for media sales tracking wasn't imminent until about 2007, but they give a pretty clear snapshot of the market trends.

Originally Posted by Shaionei

Hahahaha! Wow this thread makes me smile aslo we should talk more about the thread title.

What's there to talk about? Sony dropped the ball at their presser with this announcement. The biggest let-down of the show was that everyone in the audience thought they were getting a PS3 exclusive Final Fantasy game, only to see that it's an MMO at the end of the trailer.

Other than that there's no information about the game whatsoever.

[macgravel]

Originally Posted by Squeek

I care, because in my mind, you're all just playing it because it has "Final Fantasy" in the title!

This isn't why I play Final Fantasy games!

Originally Posted by Squeek

Are you sure the games you are playing are good?

Yeah, or else I wouldn't have spent my money on it.

Originally Posted by Squeek

because it's human nature to repeatedly buy sequels in a franchise just because it's yet another _________ game.

I don't buy games unless they are good, no matter if they are sequels or not. For example, I bought Final Fantasy X. Did I buy Final Fantasy X-2? HELL NO.

Originally Posted by Squeek

I'm trying to issue a wake-up call.

I'm already awake, but thanks.

Originally Posted by Squeek

FF12 was bad by so many industry standards, yet it still amassed millions of sales.

Wait, what? I loved Final Fantasy XII. I'm glad it had good sales, because it was worth it.

The level up system was good. There were a good bit of side quests (The contracts were awesome!). The battle system was awesome, and I hope they follow with this for the next few games.

Originally Posted by Squeek

Why are so many people playing bad games?

Because they keep releasing Sports sequels every other week, duh!

Originally Posted by Squeek

It's because the title has "Final Fantasy" in it!

Wrong!

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by macgravel

Wait, what? I loved Final Fantasy XII.

OH YOU GOT ME THERE I WAS WRONG ALL ALONG.

I'm glad it had good sales, because it was worth it.

It had terrible sales, at least when you compare it to the other games in the franchise.

FFX sold 8 million. FFXII sold 5 million.

For comparison's sake, FFVII sold 10 million and FFVIII sold 8 million.

Also, I realized something I left out of my previous statement.

This "blind devotion" thing was easily apparent a year ago, when Microsoft announced that FFXIII would be coming to the 360 as well as the PS3. The Internet was furious. Why was the Internet furious? Why would fanboys care that their game was going to more than one console?

Because they already bought a PS3 in advance knowing that FF13 would be coming to the PS3.

I'm not saying EVERYBODY did, but at least 1% of the people who bought a PS3 did so solely because FF13 would be released on the PS3 (and maybe KH3 too).

BOLD NOTE: THIS IS CONJECTURE AND I HAVE NOTHING BUT THOUSANDS OF PIECES OF ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THIS CLAIM.

[macgravel]

Originally Posted by Squeek

OH YOU GOT ME THERE I WAS WRONG ALL ALONG.

IT'S OKAY. THESE THINGS HAPPEN.

Originally Posted by Squeek

FFXII sold 5 million.

That's a good chunk of change. Sure, it could have sold more, but that's still a good bit.

Originally Posted by Squeek

This "blind devotion" thing was easily apparent a year ago, when Microsoft announced that FFXIII would be coming to the 360 as well as the PS3.

You're going to find people like that with almost any franchise.

Originally Posted by Squeek

I'm not saying EVERYBODY did, but at least 1% of the people who bought a PS3 did so solely because FF13 would be released on the PS3 (and maybe KH3 too).

I'm not that 1%. I bought my PS3 in hopes of plenty of good games coming out.

Question: You seem to love the Tales franchise, while I've never played one myself. Should I get into it?

[Archelos]

Originally Posted by Squeek

I care, because in my mind, you're all just playing it because it has "Final Fantasy" in the title!

And why do you care about THAT? Seriously? Why do you care that people play Final Fantasy because it's Final Fantasy? It somehow affects YOUR life that other people play a game just because it's part of a certain series? If what other people are doing on their own time affects your life, you have real problems, Squeek.

Originally Posted by Squeek

I'm not trying to say "LOL THE GAMES YOU PLAY SUCK", I'm trying to say "Are you sure the games you are playing are good?"

To the people playing them, yes, they are. You're too caught up in trying to define what makes something good. You're not realizing that people are entitled to their opinions of what games are good or not. What you think makes a game good is your opinion of what makes a game good. If you don't like Final Fantasy, that's fine. I don't care. In fact, like I've said, I dislike just about every game in the series as well. But other people know what they like in a game too. And if that's a dry, meaningless ATB combat system, LET THEM LIKE IT. WHY DO YOU CARE????

Originally Posted by Squeek

Tales of Vesperia: 310,000 units sold
Tales of the Abyss: 570,000 units sold
Persona 3: 430,000 units sold
Disgaea 2: 200,000 units sold
Final Fantasy X: 7,950,000 units sold

You don't think that's a LITTLE skewed?

Sure, yeah, that's horrible. Not even being sarcastic. But who ****in cares. Really. Oh, a little side note: FFX was released in 2001. The other games you listed were released in 2006 or later. Not that it makes much of a difference with those numbers, but that can be considered skewing data as well.

Squeek, you have FAR more posts than the people in this thread who actually like this game. That shows a pretty sad desperation to be correct in this situation. It shows a pretty sad desperation to be heard.

You say you're trying to issue a wake-up call. Here is a wake-up call: crusading about this won't change ANYONE'S mind about the game. You can post rant after rant about why people buy a game. But it's their call to buy a game for one reason or another. How dare you try and tell them they shouldn't buy something they enjoy because you think their enjoyment isn't genuine. Stop trying to police why people do things in real life. Here at FFR, yes, you can lay down the iron law. But IRL bro, people get to buy a game for whatever reason they want. The wake-up call here is that they won't stop doing it; they'll only resent you for trolling their threads.

EDIT: A final note.

Originally Posted by Squeek

I care, because in my mind, you're all just playing it because it has "Final Fantasy" in the title!

Originally Posted by Squeek

I care, because in my mind, you're all just playing it because it has "Final Fantasy" in the title!

Originally Posted by Squeek

I care, because in my mind, you're all just playing it because it has "Final Fantasy" in the title!

Originally Posted by Squeek

I care, because in my mind, you're all just playing it because it has "Final Fantasy" in the title!

IN YOUR MIND, Squeek. You've ranted this long because of something in YOUR mind. In YOUR mind, you can read the minds of 8,000,000 people (because I'm under the impression, according to the statistics that you still haven't linked to, that just about 8,000,000 have bought Final Fantasy X). In YOUR mind, you know for a fact that they're buying the game BECAUSE it's Final Fantasy and not because they actually LIKED the last Final Fantasy they played.

You can read people's minds now, Squeek.

[Squeek]

All I keep hearing is "WHY DO YOU CARE"

I care because I don't like Final Fantasy and I think other RPGs are better and I want to see them succeed.

Is that so hard to believe? Is that so selfish? Is that so much to ask for?

People on these forums trust my opinions. Not all of them, but a lot of them. If I say something is good, they'll be likely to at least do some research on it to see what it is. I've gotten at least a dozen regulars here to buy Tales of the Abyss and several more to pine away wishing they had it.

It's the same with One Piece. I love One Piece. I think Naruto and Bleach suck ass. There are a lot of people who share my opinion, but Naruto and Bleach are still the most popular anime series in this country. I would love to be able to convince some of those fans that there are other manga / anime out there--that there's more to this incredible world of Japanese animation than just two shows. However, these people are too ignorant to even notice. They'll never watch anything other than Naruto and Bleach. They're missing out on an entire world of other shows that are leagues ahead of Naruto and Bleach, and it annoys me because these amazing shows get left in the dust while the popular shows clean up.

Does that make sense now? I hope so, because I'm getting tired of having to explain myself.

[Archelos]

Originally Posted by Squeek

I care because I don't like Final Fantasy and I think other RPGs are better and I want to see them succeed.

You're basing success on a comparison. The Tales series has 10+ games now. The Disgaea series and its companion strategy RPGs now have something like 6 if you count the 3 Disgaea games, and then La Pucelle, Phantom Brave and Makai Kingdom. Oh, and then the multiple handheld releases. You're throwing around a bunch of sales figures as if a game doesn't sell as much as Final Fantasy, it's not successful.

Other games are succeeding, Squeek. And they're doing so without you coming into threads where fans of a game like to talk about the game and blow it up in their faces about how you hate it. There's nothing wrong with voicing your opinion. Here's mine: I don't think Final Fantasy's very good either.

But tripling the post count of the actual fans accomplishes nothing. You need a single post to voice your opinion about something. A couple more if you want to discuss with someone why. What you're doing in the Final Fantasy threads is more than voicing your opinion. You're practically campaigning for the series to be shut down.

What if, in every Tales thread, somebody made heaps of posts about how horrible the series is? Wouldn't it get old to see all the negativity about something you like?

I'm not saying your opinion sucks; I SHARE IT. But that doesn't mean I need to be negative in a place where people want to actually talk about the game. You don't even talk about the actual topic game; you rant about the whole series in general. You're entitled to your opinion, but SO ARE OTHER PEOPLE. What I see is you in here trying to say that other people's opinions are a fraud because they just like the name, not the actual game.

Get over it.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Squeek

Is that so selfish?

To want what you want for other RPGs, no. To derail other people's conversations about games to make your point, yes. Doing so is placing your opinion above the opinions of the people that like the game.

Originally Posted by Squeek

However, these people are too ignorant to even notice. They'll never watch anything other than Naruto and Bleach.

Excuse me? People are ignorant because they stick to certain series of anime? People are ignorant because they don't watch what YOU watch? People are ignorant because they don't share YOUR opinion?

You think people are OBLIGATED to watch the shows you think are good? If I watch one anime in my whole life, enjoy it, and never watch any others because I don't want to, does that make me ignorant? Because I chose I only wanted to watch one anime, and wanted to spend my time doing other things when not watching that particular anime? Am I ignorant now?

You have a lot to learn about people.

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Popular does not mean right. Popular does not mean best. Popular means advertising was most effective.

This goes for the whole anime section as well, just with toys and commercials etc..

Originally Posted by Squeek

at least 1% of the people who bought a PS3 did so solely because FF13 would be released on the PS3 (and maybe KH3 too).

KH3 is a myth, that sh*t has been pushed backed like an entire year+

[MalReynolds]

I bought it for the Ratchet Series!

Which, so far, has been a let down

[Squeek]

Archelos are you angry with me for something? You're nitpicking every damn thing I write.

Lay off, man. Seriously.

That was my "I'm done" post. Go post about FF14 now, even though there's still no information on it to write about.

ps - I like how through all of that, nobody managed to tell me why they like Final Fantasy.

[SethSquall]

People do stick with Final Fantasy because it's "Final Fantasy", it's obvious. I stuck with Sonic games because they were Sonic. When a franchise proves they can make a good couple of games people stick with them, they grow a loyalty. Same goes for consoles, football teams, cars, whatever.

Also upon reading this thread, it's evident Squeeks pissing in the wind trying to tell you guys there are other RPG's. Even after all he brought to the table in this debate it's clearly proven once again, that Final Fantasy fanboys (speacially FFVII fanboys) are the worst kind of fanboys.

Originally Posted by Scrab

FF7 - Revolutionary

You're a FF7 fanboy. Enough said. Anyone who would openly say that game is revolutionary is clearly biased. What was revolutionary about it? It didn't change anything, only opened peoples minds to the RPG scene (and in doing so, holding a special place in their Sephiroth loving hearts forever) because it was popular. So many people are biased towards FF7 and the entire FF series because of these reasons. It did very well, which counts for a lot but it certainly didn't revolutionise anything.

Originally Posted by Archelos

Excuse me? People are ignorant because they stick to certain series of anime? People are ignorant because they don't watch what YOU watch? People are ignorant because they don't share YOUR opinion?

You think people are OBLIGATED to watch the shows you think are good? If I watch one anime in my whole life, enjoy it, and never watch any others because I don't want to, does that make me ignorant? Because I chose I only wanted to watch one anime, and wanted to spend my time doing other things when not watching that particular anime? Am I ignorant now?

You have a lot to learn about people.

Squeek didn't say you were obligated to do anything. He said people who stick to one show or series are being close minded. That's ignorance, brother. Saying "I don't want to watch other shows" is great. Good for you. But you're missing out, you're not seeing the bigger picture, you're narrowing your horizons, you're being ignorant.

[Tokzic]

Originally Posted by Archelos

To want what you want for other RPGs, no. To derail other people's conversations about games to make your point, yes. Doing so is placing your opinion above the opinions of the people that like the game.

...What conversation? There was no conversation occurring about FFXIV (because, y'know, all we have to talk about is the trailer) when Squeek came in. There was no derailing at all occurring.

In fact, there's nothing "selfish" about the way Squeek is discussing the topic. As far as you go, however, all you're doing is relentlessly attacking everything Squeek says for some reason and making terrible arguments against things that are very simple to understand (e.g. "since final fantasy sells insanely better than other rpgs, these players ignore other rpgs" "OH MY GOD HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT YOU HAVE NO BASIS OOOOOOOH STATISTICS MAY I SEE A LINK HUH WOW YOU ARE SO SELFISH").

I think you're the one who needs to "get over it".

Originally Posted by Squeek

ps - I like how through all of that, nobody managed to tell me why they like Final Fantasy.

qft

seriously why are you people having such a hard time explaining why you like something

it's not like "taste", you have words, you can use them to describe what you enjoy

Originally Posted by Seth

You're a FF7 fanboy. Enough said.

qft 2: the two towers