TWG XC: Deja Vu

[Syhto]

solid dreams

[sc979]

Originally Posted by emerald

You guys really killed gun? He sounded more human than anything... Anyway what's done is done.

Originally Posted by emerald

I knew I probably wouldn't be able to come back for day end, so I decided to place a vote early. Instead of putting a safety, I decided to put some consistence to my vote. More for putting pressure than to really get him lynched. I come back this morning, read the thread, and I find his replies more human than wolf. I really didn't think my vote would lead to his lynching.

I'd rather you just put up a safety. So what DID you expect? It's day 1. Any reason you throw out for voting for somebody will have influence. If you really didn't think he was a wolf, don't leave a vote on him knowing you wouldnot be around to change it. If your intent was to make people talk, then I think that was done already with gun's accusation.

[FreezinIce]

My aim convo with Emerald. Sorry no bolding like afro, i have to leave just read it and draw your own conclusions.

emerald3x0 2:46 pm
    someone alive around here?
NEXgen33 2:55 pm
    yeah
    i was doing other stuff
emerald3x0 2:58 pm
    hey
NEXgen33 2:58 pm
    whats up?
emerald3x0 2:58 pm
    trying to convince people not to blindlessly follow afro
NEXgen33 2:59 pm
    make no mistake, im no sheep
    i read everything that was posted
    and have come to the conclusion that your seriously trying to downplay your involvement in guns lynching
emerald3x0 3:00 pm
    I remember saying in that log that I know I was at the basis of that lynching, but it was far from me the idea of getting him insta'ed.
    and in a band-wagon, it is more important to look at who puts a vote without much reason than the one who started it all and had a reason (or not so much in my case, but the point still stands)
NEXgen33 3:01 pm
    you tried to say that you were just trying to "spark discussion"
    that makes no sense to be honest
emerald3x0 3:01 pm
    which is the bloody truth
NEXgen33 3:01 pm
    your vote post for gun was full of conviction
emerald3x0 3:02 pm
    which is the best way to spark discussion
NEXgen33 3:02 pm
    not really
emerald3x0 3:02 pm
    a half-made vote (or even worse, a safety) won't spark discussion at all
NEXgen33 3:02 pm
    hm well i see what your saying
    but you cant have it
    both ways
    you cant say oh i was just trying to spark discussion i didnt SERIOUSLY want him lynched
    when you make
    a post like that
    and if its true you were just trying to spark discussion you should have changed your vote when things went overboard
emerald3x0 3:04 pm
    do you at least realize how much more efficient it is?
    we are still talking about it now
NEXgen33 3:04 pm
    for all the wrong reasons
emerald3x0 3:04 pm
    as for that, I would have love to, but I haven't logged until my other post
    we are not only getting bad things in that
    seeing how everyone reacts is always good clue to wolf1human
    I'll maybe die, but I sure hope if that happens, you will do something good out of it
    or else I will haunt you for the rest of your TWG-lives
NEXgen33 3:06 pm
    *sigh* it seems like you were opperating on a double standard
NEXgen33 3:06 pm
    you tried to seriously downplay and even went so far as to try to exclude yourself from the group of people who lynched gun
    if you wanted to "spark discussion" like you wanted us all to believe
    you should have been prepared to face the consiquences
emerald3x0 3:07 pm
    I was well prepared
NEXgen33 3:07 pm
    which would have been gun possibly being lynched
    and then someone tracing it
emerald3x0 3:07 pm
    oh that
NEXgen33 3:07 pm
    back to you
    i dont think you were
emerald3x0 3:07 pm
    I still don't see how that should be tracked down to me
NEXgen33 3:08 pm
    you started the movement
    how could it not have been
emerald3x0 3:08 pm
    and wolves profited from it and lynch gun down
NEXgen33 3:08 pm
    when people think back to day one and think hm how did gun get lynched
NEXgen33 3:08 pm
    you should have realized that the first person they would thionk about
    would be you
    and if you knew that
    and was truely prepared
    why did you flounder so much
    when afro confronted you?
    
NEXgen33 3:10 pm
    why did you try to deny your involvement
    if you were prepared
    it doesnt add up
emerald3x0 3:11 pm
    I simply stated the reasons of my actions to afro, then restated them, then yet again since he wasn't listening
    because it wasn't my goal to get him lynched
    god, why is that so hard to understand
    I knew I had a part into that, it simply wasn't my goal to have one in it
NEXgen33 3:11 pm
    because your vote post speaks directly the oppositer
emerald3x0 3:12 pm
    that's called being somewhere at the wrong time
NEXgen33 3:12 pm
    oppostie*
emerald3x0 3:12 pm
    *sigh* I thought I wouldn't have to say things twice to people other than afro
    well here it is again:
emerald3x0 3:12 pm
    my vote speaks otherwise because IT HAD TO in order to start conversation
    and hell, the accusation I gave is really weak
NEXgen33 3:13 pm
    not coming from someone who has experience playing with gun
emerald3x0 3:15 pm
    well, gun tactic (not being active) always worked (or as far as I can remember), so either he was a human and finally decided to play actively (which everyone should do) or he was a wolf and decided to change his play style to not look wolfish
    nothing can be taken out of that
NEXgen33 3:16 pm
    ok enough im going to ask you a very simple question
    when you voted for gun, you claim you didnt want to lynch him
    correct?
emerald3x0 3:17 pm
    not him over anybody else, although at that time, it wouldn't have matter too much if that happened
emerald3x0 3:17 pm
    he simply was a good target of accusation
NEXgen33 3:18 pm
    so your saying him being lynched wouldnt have been that big of a deal?
emerald3x0 3:18 pm
    back when I voted, yes
    I hadn't much to go on, so I really couldn't judge if he was human or not
NEXgen33 3:20 pm
    ok then we have your convient abscence for the rest of the day phase, which stopped you from doing the logical thing to do if you changed your mind, which would be to change your vote once he was getting lynched
    so am i correct in thinking
    that you wernt opposed to lynching him
    then magically you decided it was a bad idea after the matter? 
    Because if you got on at any time after your vote during the day phase you should have seen what the end result would have been and changed your vote
    if you suddenly became opposed
    to gun being lynched
emerald3x0 3:22 pm
    I didn't log on at all after that during the day phase (that might sound convenient, but that's the case)
NEXgen33 3:23 pm
    so if i would have asked you lets say 1 minute before day 1 ended if you supported gun being lynched you would have said yes correct?
emerald3x0 3:23 pm
    nope, having being there during that time, I would have seen his reaction and found him more human that wolf
NEXgen33 3:24 pm
    but you just said you wernt there after you casted your vote for the rest of day 1!
    now your saying you were?
emerald3x0 3:25 pm
    maybe the syntax is wrong but that should read as: "nope, if I had been there during that time, I would have seen his reaction and found him more human than wolf"
NEXgen33 3:26 pm
    i didnt ask if what would have happened if you had been there, the fact of the matter is according to your own words you wernt
emerald3x0 3:27 pm
    well, to ask me that question, I would need to be there in the first place...
NEXgen33 3:28 pm
    come on now dont play dumb
    i asked you a very simple question that should have be met with a very simple response
    the fact that your making this to be such a big deal is whats making you look suspicious
emerald3x0 3:29 pm
    "nope, having being there during that time, I would have seen his reaction and found him more human that wolf" there's no big deal in that man
    I simply answer your question, and gave you some words to explain why, as that would probably have been the next question if I simply answered no
NEXgen33 3:29 pm
    is it so hard just to man up and say "Hey i voted for gun, at that time i thought he was a wolf and i supported his lynching."
emerald3x0 3:30 pm
    I could say it anytime
    but I won't lie
    it wasn't the case
    saying so probably would make things easier
NEXgen33 3:30 pm
    ...
emerald3x0 3:30 pm
    but I won't lie
NEXgen33 3:30 pm
    NEXgen33 3:18 pm
        so your saying him being lynched wouldnt have been that big of a deal?
    emerald3x0 3:18 pm
        back when I voted, yes
        I hadn't much to go on, so I really couldn't judge if he was human or not
    i dont understand
NEXgen33 3:31 pm
    why you have something against
    just taking responsibility for lynching a human
    do you see anyone else who helped lynch gun having a fit and trying to change their motivations after the fact?
    the problem is yes you do see something wrong with taking responsibility
    because it wasnt just a honest mistake
emerald3x0 3:32 pm
    I know I am responsible for it, and I have to take it, but afro (and then you because of him) asked a ****load of other questions which I answered truthfully
NEXgen33 3:32 pm
    not in your case anyways
    it wasnt a big deal to us humans because **** happens
NEXgen33 3:33 pm
    but to you it was a very big deal
    because by instigating guns lynching
    and by
emerald3x0 3:33 pm
    matter is: afro tried to get me lynched out of it
    if I didn't do anything against it, I would simply get lynched
NEXgen33 3:33 pm
    making such a big deal out of a very small issue
    your setting yourself up to be lynched
    you are your own worst enemy
emerald3x0 3:34 pm
    I said a hundred times afro was making an issue out of a small thing
    and I defended the accusation against that small thing
NEXgen33 3:34 pm
    the fatc that you couldnt accept responsiblity for what you did
emerald3x0 3:34 pm
    and now I am accused because of it?
NEXgen33 3:34 pm
    even now
    you still dont want to
    even though
emerald3x0 3:35 pm
    I know I am responsible, it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't the goal at all
NEXgen33 3:35 pm
    its clear that whether you thought it was just to spark discussion or not
    you still instigated guns lynching!
emerald3x0 3:35 pm
    sure
    can't say otherwise
NEXgen33 3:36 pm
    now
    after saying all of that
    do you mind explaining this
emerald3x0 3:36 pm
    no I don't
NEXgen33 3:36 pm
    (11:53:53 AM) emerald3x0: general impression, his reactions were really similar to his green-play(11:54:05 AM) emerald3x0: and I never really think he was a wolf to start off with
    you just said that you thought he was a wolf when you made the vote
    what the deuce?
emerald3x0 3:37 pm
    first line is this phase, after gun had been lynched, with all that info in hand, I don't think he is a wolf
NEXgen33 3:38 pm
    (11:54:05 AM) emerald3x0: and I never really think he was a wolf to start off with
emerald3x0 3:38 pm
    and at the start, when I put my vote down, I didn't really think he was a wolf either, I simply chose him because he was a good target for a weak accusation
NEXgen33 3:38 pm
    thats the focus
    right there
    you just said he was a wolf!
    let me find it
    NEXgen33 3:18 pm
            so your saying him being lynched wouldnt have been that big of a deal?
        emerald3x0 3:18 pm
            back when I voted, yes
            I hadn't much to go on, so I really couldn't judge if he was human or not
    so the way i see it
    either your saying that a lynching a green is not that big of a deal
NEXgen33 3:39 pm
    which makes you a wolf
    or
    your saying that he was a wolf and him being lynched wouldnt be that big of a deal
    which means you just lied
emerald3x0 3:41 pm
    or case 3: he wasn't either in my pool of wolves suspects (which was empty) or in my pool of confirmed greens. so he was as good as a suspect as anyone else
NEXgen33 3:42 pm
    confirmed greens? 
    how could you be absolutely sure of a greens color
    unless your the seer
emerald3x0 3:42 pm
    not confirmed, but people I have a strong feeling they are green
NEXgen33 3:42 pm
    oh i see
    well if they arnt a confirmed green then their a wolf suspect by default
    dont try to dance around
    my accusation
emerald3x0 3:43 pm
    yes, but they aren't on the same level of wolfishness
NEXgen33 3:43 pm
    ...
    you said youself
    that your pool of wolf suspects
NEXgen33 3:44 pm
    was empty
    so doesnt that mean
    everyone else would have been
    in guns pool
    which makes it in reality 2 pools
    because having 2 pools based on wolfishness and having one of them empty
emerald3x0 3:45 pm
    wolves suspect: people I really think are wolves,
    pool of "confirmed" as I call, altough it is more "most likely green": people I think they are green
    other pool: people falling in between
NEXgen33 3:45 pm
    is just stupid
NEXgen33 3:46 pm
    so basicly you picked out gun because he voted for me and decided to make up some bull**** about his behavior and then put a vote on him, which is ok though because hes nto a "confirmed green?"
emerald3x0 3:46 pm
    I had to pick out a target and make an accusation on him
    the easiest person to do that on was gun
NEXgen33 3:46 pm
    "had to?"
    you didnt have to do anything
emerald3x0 3:47 pm
    sure, I could have stayed behind and not vote and get a phantom
NEXgen33 3:47 pm
    unless you were a wolf and needed to throw a human under the wheel 
NEXgen33 3:48 pm
    no response?
emerald3x0 3:48 pm
    my response was half a second before your question
NEXgen33 3:49 pm
    not voting and throwing a vote out hapahazardly with made-up evidenbce wernt your only options
    and you know that
NEXgen33 3:50 pm
    i have to go
    we'll finish this discussion later
emerald3x0 3:51 pm
    my options:
    1- not voting (phantom=bad)
    2- safetying (doesn't bring anything to the thread)
    3- vote for somebody with a good reason (there were nobody on my suspect list)
    4- do what I did (best thing to do I think)

[emerald000]

I hate safeties. They don't bring anything to the game. They shouldn't even exist.

Like I said to Freezin (log should be posted really soon), gun was on my "no idea if he is a wolf or a human" pool, where most people are.

And there is never too much subjects people talk about. It is better for people to talk about two things that one. That way, both sides of the medal are seen.

[Syhto]

what did that even mean

[Syhto]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

i have to leave just read it and draw your own conclusions.

I really enjoy the way you confronted him and spoke so logically about it, but what do you think about his response? I mean you were the one that had the conversation with him afterall. I'd like to hear your full-out opinion

[FictionJunction]

emerald, don't use the game as an excuse for your behaviour. Play the game, don't play around it.

It's just very poor sportsmanship and it makes me

[FictionJunction]

this is what I think of when I read anything posted by freezin

[jwcgator]

Safety on sc979 until I can actually form an opinion other than "Afrobean scares me".

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by mandy

what did that even mean

I think what emerald meant was:

I hate safeties. So instead of making a safety, I avoided getting a phantom by voting for someone I thought was human, even though he was beginning to catch flak and was a good chance that others would vote for him after I did. Furthermore, even though I thought he was human, I indicated that I believed the opposite in the post where I voted him, just so that no one would think it was a safety. But that's not all. On top of saving myself from a phantom, I'm also claiming that my vote intended to spark conversation! Yes, that was what gun himself was doing and succeeding with, but I thought it would be good to shift the conversation he started away from his topic and bring it down on him, even though, as I've claimed over and over, I thought he was human and didn't think anyone would vote for him for some reason in spite of the backlash he was beginning to draw.

Also, my choice of words make it clear that I don't consider myself among the human team, but if you call me on this, I will get very annoyed at you >:(

[FictionJunction]

the nobodies thusfar: viccica, sc, A2P, u84

the whatevers thusfar: tupac, panda

heated debaters: emerald, arfo, myself, freezin

opinionated observers: syhto

that leaves me with makilaz. what the **** are you doing?

[FictionJunction]

and then jwc enters the scene like he owns the place

[emerald000]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

I think what emerald meant was:

I hate safeties. So instead of making a safety, I avoided getting a phantom by voting for someone I thought was human, even though he was beginning to catch flak and was a good chance that others would vote for him after I did. Furthermore, even though I thought he was human, I indicated that I believed the opposite in the post where I voted him, just so that no one would think it was a safety. But that's not all. On top of saving myself from a phantom, I'm also claiming that my vote intended to spark conversation! Yes, that was what gun himself was doing and succeeding with, but I thought it would be good to shift the conversation he started away from his topic and bring it down on him, even though, as I've claimed over and over, I thought he was human and didn't think anyone would vote for him for some reason in spite of the backlash he was beginning to draw.

Also, my choice of words make it clear that I don't consider myself among the human team, but if you call me on this, I will get very annoyed at you >

I would highly prefer you use what I say instead of what you are concluding by over-analyzing. I think what I said to Freezin better sums up what was going through my head at the time:

my options:
1- not voting (phantom=bad)
2- safetying (doesn't bring anything to the thread)
3- vote for somebody with a good reason (there were nobody on my suspect list)
4- do what I did (best thing to do I think)

You of all persons afro, shouldn't say a thing against that. I remember one of your post where you said safeties shouldn't exist and don't bring anything.


Also, there was no heat on gun when I put down my vote. I read through it again to make sure and that's the case. Also stumbled on that gem:

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

you voted first, I can't ask you to take the vote off since you started the movement.

And no idea where you got that out afro, but I wasn't sure gun was a wolf. He was along a lot of other people in the "no idea" pool. Him wasn't better or worse than most people to pick as a target. It is only after reading through his reaction that I got the feeling he was human. But day had already ended and it was too late to do anything about it.


And as far as I know, being against someone's arguments, doesn't shift the focus out of them but rather puts it more on them, since both people pro and con gun will look at them.

[Panda Express]

Well seeing as my first vote was of the same nature (spurring talk via a vote on Freezy pop, even if I caught some flak for it), I'm a bit sympathetic.

Also empathetic because I can see how Emerald would make sure mistakes seeing as its his second language (Which I never would've known without you posting such, kudos bro). Afro, if you were grilling some like ... say ... myself over it I'd take your posts as good material for votes, but you're just playing semantics and pushing him around english class.

Going to safety on Sytho ... I mean, Maaaaaaandy, although I'm pretty sure I'll be able to interact with you people later tonight and make a more intricate decision.

[Afrobean]

The guy clearly understands English rather well. He deserves very little sympathy. Him saying "I was killing to tell you" instead of "I was dying to tell you" makes sense for a ESL person (being an idiom and all), but referring to the human team as "you" instead of "we" DOES NOT.

Person who speaks English as a second language is going to be prone to messing up idioms no matter how proficient they are in the language. But mixing up "we" with "you" isn't really possible for someone who understands the language on the level that he does.

[emerald000]

Why there aren't two different pronouns for the singular and plural is out of me, but that can lead to some wrong interpretations. I wanted to use French "on", which is a pronoun used to denote people in general, and translated it as "you" in my rant. I had some stuff to shout out, and didn't totally think was I was typing as you were seriously pissing me out to no extent.

[Syhto]

Is it just me or is he exaggerating it intentionally now?

[emerald000]

He was exaggerating things from the very start.

[FictionJunction]

emeralds posts got 1000% more interesting now that I know his first language is french.

french accent posts yesssssssssssssssss

[Makilaz]

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

that leaves me with makilaz. what the **** are you doing?

Trying to balance work and TWG? There's not much I can post that hasn't been debated to death by Arfo or the others, and I think emerald is backpedaling far too much to be human.