Snowden

[FoJaR]

i'm saying that if the government secretly did something against the law, it would still be against the law.

exposing secret lawbreaking is whistleblowing and is perfectly fine.

exposing things that fall within the bounds of the law, but are secret for a reason is not patriotic.

[FoJaR]

and if i'm misunderstanding your statement, it's because it's ambiguous. you should write more clearly.

[Izzy]

The point that you missed was the questioning of the legality of people paying for government projects that they aren't allowed to know about. I wasn't making a stance on it either way.

And you are misunderstanding because you jump the gun to insult people for whatever reason.

[Coolboyrulez0]

i dont really care what you do in your country but the nsa spying the personal cellphone of our chancellor is pretty damn fucked up and hopefully has consequences
(and the data collected from german citizens which is against the law here and i assume eu laws also)

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by Izzy

The point that you missed was the questioning of the legality of people paying for government projects that they aren't allowed to know about. I wasn't making a stance on it either way.

And you are misunderstanding because you jump the gun to insult people for whatever reason.

actually in this case, i was right on. what you were saying is not what you meant to be saying.

and the reason is that if everyone has access to secret projects that spy on terrorists, then terrorists will end up finding out about them and will not be spied on.

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by Coolboyrulez0

i dont really care what you do in your country but the nsa spying the personal cellphone of our chancellor is pretty damn fucked up and hopefully has consequences
(and the data collected from german citizens which is against the law here and i assume eu laws also)

first off, yeah, it's stupid and unnecessary.

secondly if deep down in your heart you believe that your country doesnt do the same thing to their allies, you are fooling yourself.

[FoJaR]

#cynicalnature

[Coolboyrulez0]

I see you playing devils advocate and agree with your point but I would definitely argue it does not happen on this large of scale and I, of course, am not okay with this either, regardless of how large the scale of it is.

This was the interlude now back to roasting izzy or something

[FoJaR]

yeah i mean nobody has as many resources as we do, but i bet that almost everyone spies on america.

[Cavernio]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

actually in this case, i was right on. what you were saying is not what you meant to be saying.

and the reason is that if everyone has access to secret projects that spy on terrorists, then terrorists will end up finding out about them and will not be spied on.

Knowing in full detail is different from knowing that we spent x dollars funding insert-vague-project-description

[Izzy]

Don't even bother. No questioning government spending allowed.

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

Knowing in full detail is different from knowing that we spent x dollars funding insert-vague-project-description

i mean you can look up the budget if you want to know how much goes to NSA

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by Izzy

Don't even bother. No questioning government spending allowed.

uhhhhhh

this happens all the time!

[Tps222]

I will never see eye to eye with Fojar on this.

Eric Snowden is a god damn hero.

[FoJaR]

Well yeah, you believe in privacy over all else.

Like how terrorists and people who associate with them should not be spied on, and that you would rather see another few 9/11 sized attacks.

(I am not being dramatic, this is what he has said in other threads)

[Nyokou]

Well gee, I wonder why the U.S. has so many problems with 'terrorists'. It could not possibly be because the government has stuck their noses into other countries' business for decades and tried to enforce their views on them, resulting in the deaths of innocent people, which in turn fuel their loved ones as well as extreme nationalists to enact revenge on the U.S. for hurting their people. And not because our government has also supplied them with the means and the weapons either which they in turn use against us when they are sick of our meddling.

They're obviously doing it cause they hate freedom!

And it's perfectly fine to infringe on the freedom of people living in America by violating their privacy. As long as it's for a good cause like fighting (self-inflicted) terrorism!

[devonin]

That sounds like something a terrorist would say.

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by Nyokou

Well gee, I wonder why the U.S. has so many problems with 'terrorists'. It could not possibly be because the government has stuck their noses into other countries' business for decades and tried to enforce their views on them, resulting in the deaths of innocent people, which in turn fuel their loved ones as well as extreme nationalists to enact revenge on the U.S. for hurting their people. And not because our government has also supplied them with the means and the weapons either which they in turn use against us when they are sick of our meddling.

They're obviously doing it cause they hate freedom!

And it's perfectly fine to infringe on the freedom of people living in America by violating their privacy. As long as it's for a good cause like fighting (self-inflicted) terrorism!

the first part, yeah all that stuff happened. that doesnt give people from those countries the right to kill american citizens.

as for the bolded section, you realize that this doesnt happen unless there's a warrant, right?

[FoJaR]

also terrorists in quotes???

how isolated from current events are you....

[Attractive]

fojar it is hard for me to believe that you actually believe in the things you post.



terrorist is just a word the government uses when any single person or group who is willing to use force opposes them and the ideals of their system. it is a buzz word and it has become a sort of justification for government violation of civil liberties. all the talk of terrorism is a fear tactic that the government uses on its citizens to make them feel that they need to be protected. if people are scared and feel as if there is a threat then they are more willing to give up their freedoms for the sake of "security". the government wants more terrorists because more terrorists means more excuses to attack foreign countries and eliminate citizens rights at home. if you know anything about the history of the cia's clandestine operations in the 20th century then you would know that it is safe to assume that the cia is currently involved in a lot of clandestine operations in other countries. i would not be surprised if it turned out that the cia was directly or indirectly responsible for much of the car bombings and other "terrorist" acts that are going on throughout the middle east. i would also not be surprised if the cia was responsible for some of the disappearances of journalists in syria and other countries. it would be in our governments best interest to create instability and chaos in the middle east as it would create a better opportunity for them to justify military involvement in the region.

the government is not always doing what it says it is doing and to think otherwise is foolish. i do not think that our government is looking out for the best interest of the citizens and i believe that anybody who exposes their wrongdoing is doing something good for humanity.