Atheism/Theism thread

[Senip]

Teachings of Jesus Christ. Not someone setting down rules in his name.

[devonin]

If Paul's letter to the Ephesians doesn't count, because Paul isn't Christ, then you have to disqualify every account we have about Jesus' words or actions that weren't set down by Christ himself...which is all of them. Which of the "teachings of Christ" that were listed above didn't come from one of the gospels of the apostles, and were instead written by Christ himself?

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by devonin

You've listed a bunch of positive things, and said 'There, show me one of those that aren't positive' which is ridiculous, and unfalisifiable and has no place in CT. You want to see a teaching of Christ that I consider immoral?

Ephesians 6:5-6

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.

There's one. It's even New Testament.

Servants, be (continually willing to be voluntarily) submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable. 19 For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a man bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God. 21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps. (Peter 2:18; 19; 20; 21)

Slaves - Although we do not have slaves per se in our modern culture (some of you would argue this point I'm sure!), the master-slave relationship clearly parallels the employer-employee relationship in our day. As in the relationships between husbands and wives and children and fathers, the principle Paul is emphasizing is that of authority and submission as a manifestation of one who is filled with and controlled by the Holy Spirit. Barclay has a note (although it is difficult to substantiate) that in the Romans Empire there were upwards to sixty million slaves, largely because the Roman citizen considered it beneath his dignity to work. Vincent adds that "in many of the cities of Asia Minor slaves outnumbered freemen". Thus practically all work was done by slaves. This was so pervasive that even doctors, teachers and secretaries of the Roman emperors were slaves! Although some masters were kind to their slaves, that appears to be the exception rather than the rule.

Was that the only teaching of Christ that you misunderstood?

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by devonin

If Paul's letter to the Ephesians doesn't count, because Paul isn't Christ, then you have to disqualify every account we have about Jesus' words or actions that weren't set down by Christ himself...which is all of them. Which of the "teachings of Christ" that were listed above didn't come from one of the gospels of the apostles, and were instead written by Christ himself?

Counter-post before a post. GG

On a similar note, I would assume agnostic?

[devonin]

Was that the only teaching of Christ that you misunderstood?

Oh, you're one of those. Okay, good thing I saved myself all that time.

[Nullifidian]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Servants, be (continually willing to be voluntarily) submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable. 19 For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a man bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God. 21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps. (Peter 2:18; 19; 20; 21)

Slaves - Although we do not have slaves per se in our modern culture (some of you would argue this point I'm sure!), the master-slave relationship clearly parallels the employer-employee relationship in our day. As in the relationships between husbands and wives and children and fathers, the principle Paul is emphasizing is that of authority and submission as a manifestation of one who is filled with and controlled by the Holy Spirit. Barclay has a note (although it is difficult to substantiate) that in the Romans Empire there were upwards to sixty million slaves, largely because the Roman citizen considered it beneath his dignity to work. Vincent adds that "in many of the cities of Asia Minor slaves outnumbered freemen". Thus practically all work was done by slaves. This was so pervasive that even doctors, teachers and secretaries of the Roman emperors were slaves! Although some masters were kind to their slaves, that appears to be the exception rather than the rule.

Was that the only teaching of Christ that you misunderstood?

gg ambiguity eh?

[FFRN00B90210]

my entire post gets overlooked and you guys continue to validate this guys brain

do you guys really need to feel that much better about yourselves? apparently.

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

11. "GIVE TO THE POOR TO PLEASE GOD, NOT TO GAIN APPROVAL
FROM OTHER PEOPLE."
4. "LET PEOPLE SEE YOUR GOOD WORKS." (Do not hide your light
under a basket.)

Couldn't make it one post without a contradiction..

Also, why can I not follow these tenets and not believe in God? Oh, that's right because I'm too busy worrying about my own atheist ass to care about anything ever. You're extremely misguided if you think that all atheists are self-serving assholes with no care or interest in the well-being of others.

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by devonin

Oh, you're one of those. Okay, good thing I saved myself all that time.

kinda difficult to dispute the truth isn't it? You know i love you right

[adlp]

Originally Posted by Coolboyrulez0

devonin gets trolled itt

jjtrixx doing a great job here imo

[FFRN00B90210]

someone lock this or something, none of this is critical thinking.

devonin, you're just digging yourself a hole responding to this guy who is obviously just not very bright.

[adlp]

i think this topic should be locked on every forum from any website because this is how it will always turn out

[FFRN00B90210]

natalya simonova detected

[Nullifidian]

Just because it doesn't change the vocal individual's opinion on a forum doesn't mean it doesn't change other people's opinions.

Also FFRN00B90210, I did read your post and I agree with you, it's pretty ridiculous. The fact you mentioned that these discussions turn into fucking bookworks is quite tiring. It's basically people's ignorance/inability to google something being answered with evidence (wich is usually long if well substantiated) and as soon as that evidence is posted they shift to some other point where evidence contradicts their beliefs requiring MORE evidence to disprove beliefs that need validation in the first place, not disproval.

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by _.Spitfire._

Just because it doesn't change the vocal individual's opinion on a forum doesn't mean it doesn't change other people's opinions.

Well said. I'm always glad to get these atheists/agnostics thinking. Sorry for assuming you were an atheist devonin. I'm interested to know what your belief/knowledge-of/philosophy is. I'm always open to an honest discussion of any belief including my own.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by _.Spitfire._

It's basically people's ignorance/inability to google something being answered with evidence (wich is usually long if well substantiated) and as soon as that evidence is posted they shift to some other point where evidence contradicts their beliefs requiring MORE evidence to disprove beliefs that need validation in the first place, not disproval.

'tis called "moving the goalposts"

I think my frustration comes from the fact that nearly every single religious person I've ever encountered does the exact same stuff during an argument. After a certain point I'm just convinced that they don't *really* care that much about what's true, but rather what makes them feel the best.

A big part of it, too, is education. To be an atheist (and to understand why it's technically the "better" option if your goal is truth value) requires an understanding of logic, physics, statistics, biology, history, philosophy, astronomy, psychology/cognitive biases, chemistry, etc -- and you can't really provide all that education to someone yourself, let alone in one sitting -- and it's not like they really care to listen most of the time anyway.

You can tell someone that they're moving the goalposts / invoking argument from ignorance / appealing to utility / using a false equivalence until the cows come home, but at the end of the day they simply don't care.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

...but at the end of the day they simply don't care.

which is what makes arguments like this pointless to be in. watching them though is a completely different story

[Reincarnate]

I don't even find them fun to watch anymore because they usually unravel the same way, and it honestly just makes me depressed that we're so far behind other first-world countries when it comes to this crap, lol. We'll get there eventually, but it's so long overdue.

[FFRN00B90210]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

I don't even find them fun to watch anymore because they usually unravel the same way, and it honestly just makes me depressed that we're so far behind other first-world countries when it comes to this crap, lol. We'll get there eventually, but it's so long overdue.

pretty much man

[Choofers]

"Do not take the lord's name in vain" is pretty ironic considering how vain "the lord" actually is.