6th Official FFR Tournament - Is over, Congrats to all our winners!

[jprox445]

Originally Posted by squeesfan

There will always be someomone unhappy no matter what you do. From a personal perspective, I'm really happy with my placement this year. When I first saw I was in d4, I was thinking 'wow, I'm going to be wrecked,' and then when I played the song the first time I thought I had no chance. Instead, I decided to really go for it and play more than I have for years, focusing on the patterns and learning. I ended going from being happy with a 19 messy good to a clean 2 good and I still think I can improve. If I'd been in d3 I wouldn't have pushed myself at all. I think it's a good idea to be put in a division you think you have no chance at because when you really put your mind to it and practice you can surprise yourself with the sort of skillboosts you can achieve. If I hadn't been in the tourney I never would have pushed for the score I have now, so even if I go outin the next round this tourney has been worth it for me.

apologies for the wall of text.

I think i'll stop complaining and just put all my effort into it.. besides... im just wasting time here posting when i could be whoring Fall Silently and possibly getting a better score...

[iironiic]

Originally Posted by wildfireskunk

And the BEST solution is to keep it how it is now, because then it's set out like 6 different 'option 2s', which at least in some way allow for skill divides.

This raises the question of what qualifies someone to be in a specific division. Clearly, some people are not happy with their current division placement because of skill drops and all of those factors one must account for.

This can be fixed if there is a single division because that takes that factor away from the mix. It will also show where you stand among the competitive nature of FFR and simultaneously rid unnecessary arguments over one placement. It will also reveal if you have a skill drop based on where you rank at the end of the tournament and give everyone the same song. Of course it's unfair to see someone from D6 play against someone in D1, but the one who worked hard for the higher division was once a D1 player as well. He spent time to achieve where he's at today.

\twocents

[bmah]

Ryusei, can you at least understand the logic that goes behind such decisions as opposed to thinking that your reasoning is ignored?

Like, what don't you think has yet to be acknowledged?

Originally Posted by jprox445

I think i'll stop complaining and just put all my effort into it.. besides... im just wasting time here posting when i could be whoring Fall Silently and possibly getting a better score...

This is probably a better way of spending your time for the tourney.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Ryusei_

This and this alone is why I loathe to bring up any disagreement. Because at the end of the day it's always the "I'm in charge, I'm right, deal with it." It's so counter-productive it's borderline silly.

The same mindset was apparent in the discussions about the difficulty level of the tournament songs. "Well WE thought it was this, so obviously this bulk of the community saying differently is wrong." was pretty much how that entire thread went.

1st off he's not in charge, he helped me out with some placements along with 2 others who I wont mention for the sake of them not being attacked by people. And I don't see too many people agreeing with you in this debate. And no one ever said anything about us being the deciding factor in the difficulty of the songs either. We put out OUR reasonings to why we thought it was. And for a while the community was SPLIT on it. Still since I changed it to a 10 there are people that are like "I don't see why it's a 10" I'm tired of people trying to play this power card on us when we're clearly explaining to you the situation and why it can't get much better than this. Plus to mention again I changed it to a 10 after more of the community got their input in. But I guess I'm a bad guy for letting people discuss it first.

If you'd like to go through and build the divisions and show me how much better they could be please do. But otherwise you haven't given any good solution to the problem.

[wildfireskunk]

Originally Posted by Ryusei_

This and this alone is why I loathe to bring up any disagreement. Because at the end of the day it's always the "I'm in charge, I'm right, deal with it." It's so counter-productive it's borderline silly.

They actually did change some people who came to them with reasonable concerns about their placements before the tournament.

There's also the case that when you run something like this, you need to be strict with the rules or things can get out of hand, especially with so many people. I've run much smaller gaming tournaments than this, and have learnt that once you've written the rules (in this case, "we're placing people based on how good we percieve them to be based on their stats"), you stick to them to the letter unless shown a damn good reason not to.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by squeesfan

There will always be someomone unhappy no matter what you do. From a personal perspective, I'm really happy with my placement this year. When I first saw I was in d4, I was thinking 'wow, I'm going to be wrecked,' and then when I played the song the first time I thought I had no chance. Instead, I decided to really go for it and play more than I have for years, focusing on the patterns and learning. I ended going from being happy with a 19 messy good to a clean 2 good and I still think I can improve. If I'd been in d3 I wouldn't have pushed myself at all. I think it's a good idea to be put in a division you think you have no chance at because when you really put your mind to it and practice you can surprise yourself with the sort of skillboosts you can achieve. If I hadn't been in the tourney I never would have pushed for the score I have now, so even if I go outin the next round this tourney has been worth it for me.

apologies for the wall of text.

That's the spirit! ^_^

Originally Posted by wildfireskunk

They actually did change some people who came to them with reasonable concerns about their placements before the tournament.

There's also the case that when you run something like this, you need to be strict with the rules or things can get out of hand, especially with so many people. I've run much smaller gaming tournaments than this, and have learnt that once you've written the rules (in this case, "we're placing people based on how good we percieve them to be based on their stats"), you stick to them to the letter unless shown a damn good reason not to.

He was one of the people that were changed after PMing me about his placement lol.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by iironiic

This raises the question of what qualifies someone to be in a specific division. Clearly, some people are not happy with their current division placement because of skill drops and all of those factors one must account for.

This can be fixed if there is a single division because that takes that factor away from the mix. It will also show where you stand among the competitive nature of FFR and simultaneously rid unnecessary arguments over one placement. It will also reveal if you have a skill drop based on where you rank at the end of the tournament and give everyone the same song. Of course it's unfair to see someone from D6 play against someone in D1, but the one who worked hard for the higher division was once a D1 player as well. He spent time to achieve where he's at today.

\twocents

[size=1,000,000]THANK YOU omg[/size]

[wildfireskunk]

Originally Posted by iironiic

This raises the question of what qualifies someone to be in a specific division. Clearly, some people are not happy with their current division placement because of skill drops and all of those factors one must account for.

This can be fixed if there is a single division because that takes that factor away from the mix. It will also show where you stand among the competitive nature of FFR and simultaneously rid unnecessary arguments over one placement. It will also reveal if you have a skill drop based on where you rank at the end of the tournament and give everyone the same song. Of course it's unfair to see someone from D6 play against someone in D1, but the one who worked hard for the higher division was once a D1 player as well. He spent time to achieve where he's at today.

\twocents

The skilldrop thing is at the discretion of the organisers. In their position, I'd have done the same thing. I'm a high level ITG player and I hold tournaments for it and DDR, and am well aware of how short a time it can take a once awesome player to come back from a long break.

And the 'everyone in one division' thing would suck for the most part in this style of tournament. Have a knockout tournament and suddenly it gets more fun, but like this you may as well just tell 90% of people to not bother entering. The first round would either be easy and AAA'd by everyone, or difficult in order to spread scores out, and 90% of people may as well not bother playing it as they'll never get near the 50 AAAs the top players would achieve.

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

He was one of the people that were changed after PMing me about his placement lol.

Yup, I was. And it was obviously with reasonable concern XD

[iironiic]

One last comment: All of you guys need to know that prizes are generally overrated. Yes they may be bragging rights but I'd rather improve than win all of the time.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by wildfireskunk

The skilldrop thing is at the discretion of the organisers. In their postition, I'd have done the same thing. I'm a high level ITG player and I hold tournaments for it and DDR, and am well aware of how short a time it can take a once awesome player to come back from a long break.

And the 'everyone in one division' thing would suck for the most part in this style of tournament. Have a knockout tournament and suddenly it gets more fun, but like this you may as well just tell 90% of people to not bother entering. The first round would either be easy and AAA'd by everyone, or difficult to spread scores out, and 90% of people may as well not bother playing it as they'll never get near the 50 AAAs

That can be fixed by offering an exclusive token song for participants only. Something to that degree, for a one division tournament to work, all of the participants must get something out of it.

EDIT 2: I also dislike elimination tournaments because it doesn't give everyone a chance to redeem themselves. Maybe give a prize to all participants that submitted something to all of the rounds of the tournament?

[TC_Halogen]

ITG requires a lot of physical components though - it does take the saying "practice makes perfect" to a whole new level because if you don't play for even a short period of time, it absolutely murders components of your game (stamina, speed, accuracy, form, you name it).

Here, all you have to worry about is timing, and reading. Stamina and such can easily be built back when it comes to keyboard play.

(random question: it seems like you're a decent ITG player also by looking at your sig - what's your username/ITG handle?)

[Ryusei_]

Originally Posted by bmah

Ryusei, can you at least understand the logic that goes behind such decisions as opposed to thinking that your reasoning is ignored?

Like, what don't you think has yet to be acknowledged?



This is probably a better way of spending your time for the tourney.

I absolutely can appreciate it and fully understand it. However, I'll use Jprox here as an example just because he's been posting.

Jprox:
10's AAA'd - 0
Best 11 score - 67 11 Flesvelka 2,554,470* 1604 52 2 0 7

Best 10 score -10 Everything Went Numb 1,694,775* 1086 9 0 0 0 (Most 10's played are not even SDGs)

Best 12 score - 82 12 honki sentai majirenjaa -MAJI eurobeat version- 2,822,890* 1784 43 3 0 15



Ryusei_:
10's AAA'd - 10 with more BFs than I care to count
Best 11 score - 133 11 Strangeprogram 2,234,550* 1440 2 0 0 0
Best 12 score - 168 12 Ketsarku Mozgalom 2,529,810* 1619 16 0 0 2

That is a massive disparity, and I wouldn't even call him at the bottom of my bracket. THAT is entirely not acknowledged.

[popsicle_3000]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

But it's also what causes all the drama and constant, I shouldn't be here, this person shouldn't be there.

what's a tourny without this? makes the thread so much more fun to read

[squeesfan]

Originally Posted by iironiic

One last comment: All of you guys need to know that prizes are generally overrated. Yes they may be bragging rights but I'd rather improve than win all of the time.

EDIT:




That can be fixed by offering an exclusive token song for participants only. Something to that degree, for a one division tournament to work, all of the participants must get something out of it.

completely agree. People are always going on about omg i want vROFL or w/e. I got it in the last tourney and have played it maybe a handful of times, it really isn't that fun having it as the file is just wat.

[TC_Halogen]

@ Ryusei: uh

there's people worse than that in the division, and lucky for you, you managed to stay in D4 with your stats. That's the natural variance within the division, just like how there's some people with level 8 SDGs (too high for D1), and really low 9 AAAs like Yoshi's Cookie (too low for D3). Same issue applies for all of the divisions.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Ryusei_

I absolutely can appreciate it and fully understand it. However, I'll use Jprox here as an example just because he's been posting.

Jprox:
10's AAA'd - 0
Best 11 score - 67 11 Flesvelka 2,554,470* 1604 52 2 0 7

Best 10 score -10 Everything Went Numb 1,694,775* 1086 9 0 0 0 (Most 10's played are not even SDGs)

Best 12 score - 82 12 honki sentai majirenjaa -MAJI eurobeat version- 2,822,890* 1784 43 3 0 15



Ryusei_:
10's AAA'd - 10 with more BFs than I care to count
Best 11 score - 133 11 Strangeprogram 2,234,550* 1440 2 0 0 0
Best 12 score - 168 12 Ketsarku Mozgalom 2,529,810* 1619 16 0 0 2

That is a massive disparity, and I wouldn't even call him at the bottom of my bracket. THAT is entirely not acknowledged.

Keep in mind I HAD YOU IN D5. I should move you back I guess since you're clearly too high for D4, hell I can't even FC Ketsarku but you can get 16 clean on it.

[iironiic]

Originally Posted by squeesfan

completely agree. People are always going on about omg i want vROFL or w/e. I got it in the last tourney and have played it maybe a handful of times, it really isn't that fun having it as the file is just wat.

I don't even have vrofl and I don't intend on earning it via tournaments. I'm on the way to 50 bil GT so it won't matter to me in the long run anyways. I've played the file on LD's engine and it's (being the file) just not worth having lmfao.

[wildfireskunk]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

ITG requires a lot of physical components though - it does take the saying "practice makes perfect" to a whole new level because if you don't play for even a short period of time, it absolutely murders components of your game (stamina, speed, accuracy, form, you name it).

Here, all you have to worry about is timing, and reading. Stamina and such can easily be built back when it comes to keyboard play.

(random question: it seems like you're a decent ITG player also by looking at your sig - what's your username/ITG handle?)

The fact that it's more physical makes it an even better example, as I took a break for just over a year (after just passing my first 14), and upon coming back it took less than 2 weeks for me to pass it again, and pass another few on that same day.

And I use the same handle everywhere, Wildfireskunk. I say I'm a high level player, I mean that for the UK. My best passes are a handful of 15s, which is better than most over here

[TC_Halogen]

all vROFL is, is the memento of working your ass off in some way on FFR - whether it be doing the painful/tedious task of a billion in a day, getting 8th or better in an official, or getting to 50,000,000,000 points.

the file is horrible, but the token as a gift is just awesome because it's something that very few people have.

EDIT: hey, we're about the same skill level Wildfire - I was actually working on a Superluminal pass (I failed three steps from the end because lol24ths and loldeadtired). The competition over here in the US is absolutely absurd with most ITG regulars able to pass at least 15s now -______-.

[jprox445]

[quote=Ryusei_;3571604]Jprox:
10's AAA'd - 0
Best 11 score - 67 11 Flesvelka 2,554,470* 1604 52 2 0 7QUOTE]



I know this was only trying to proove a point and somwhat help but that's not my best 11 :S

thanks anyway :P

mine is OMW V2 and Novo Mundo

[Inwa]

In after ppl thinking a fair division is a division where they, personally, are on top easily, in spite of the simple impossibility of that idea when applying it to every individual in all divisions.

Only feasible solution is to remove incentives, i.e. only give prizes to top finishers in D6 next time and amaze at the D5 ppl complaining they are placed too low, and everyone else complaining about no prizes )

On a positive note, seems like a very well organized event from my p.o.v., thanks and very well done!