How the tournament should have gone.

tj28 · 09-8-2009, 01:46 PM

My idea is 'mobile divisions'.

Have about 10 divisions. Initial placement will be as usual; placed by levelrank/tier points.

But, these divisions move. Players will be moved up and down divisions throughout the tournament based on their current skill level.

If player A does significantly better in D6 than players B and C, then player A will be moved to a higher division (D7/D8).

Anti-Sandbagging:
If you submit a score just good enough to be above the cutoff, then you risk getting supped at the last minute. If you post a score significantly lower than the skill level you were placed at to go down a division, you wouldn't do so. (If you had VC AAAs when initially placed and you suddenly couldn't FC a C, you wouldn't be moved down.)
It would be harder to go down than up, which will mean many of the players will be in high divisions by the end. Remember that D1 was a huge division though, non-BS D1 players can actually participate in the lowest divisions.

Anti-Misplacement:
If you are initially placed too high, and genuinely aren't at that skill level, you can be moved down if seen fit. A true D3 player will stay at D3 the entire tournament, playing other D3 players and a potential BS'er for one round.

Prizes:
1st to all ten divisions gets vROFL, and whatever you want to do with credits/t-shirts is up to the host.

Cons:
Lowest divisions will be nearly empty by the end.
BS'ers could still try to stay in low divisions, but it won't be nearly as easy.

This may not be in the right section, so move if required.

Open to all questions/ideas/comments.

who_cares973 · 09-8-2009, 01:50 PM

I was expecting a complain thread but I like this idea

**Sprite-** · 09-8-2009, 01:54 PM

This is basically the same thing as the OOL..

**xBBx Takedown** · 09-8-2009, 01:54 PM

I like this idea TJ. Excellent excellent idea.

tj28 · 09-8-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprite-

This is basically the same thing as the OOL..

Similar, but it wouldn't be based on just the scores submitted and the top players in that division.

In the OOL the top players would always move up, and the bottom players would always go down. This isn't applied here.

Same general idea though.

**Oni-Paranoia** · 09-8-2009, 02:13 PM

This idea is 'okay' but it has many flaws..

The point of a tournament is to win. If your in a certain division, that is where you will stay for the remainder and your goal is to be the best out of everyone in that division. This idea defeats that whole purpose.

Expert Players would shift according to the song choice rather than skill. For example, I can SDG 'Ketsarku Mozgalom' (FGO) but I can't break 15 goods on 4 Chord Touhou (FMO).. I can do Burst > JS (JumpStream)..

For the other divisions it would be a matter of how lucky you get by barely beating the person behind you and not being thrown into another division. Also, any player who gets a 'Skill Boost' would be screwed since they would be moved up but not be good enough to place well in that division..

P.s. Overall, there just needs to be a D6. I'm still being placed in D5 and I can't really beat any of the top D4 players (score wise). 2 Years ago AAAing an FGO was 'OMG' now it's 'meh'

**devonin** · 09-8-2009, 02:18 PM

Adding an extra division wouldn't make this problem any better whatsoever. It either splits D5 into two parts, or it screws over some of the top of D4 by putting them in D5 while a bunch of D5 went into D6.

As for the "mobile" divisions. Are people ever actually eliminated in that plan of yours? If I score horribly, I get moved down a division...that means I don't get eliminated? WHat if I go from D4 to D3 in say, round 6. What place am I in in D3? Based only on my scores obtained after I get moved down?

tj28 · 09-8-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

This idea is 'okay' but it has many flaws..

The point of a tournament is to win. If your in a certain division, that is where you will stay for the remainder and your goal is to be the best out of everyone in that division. This idea defeats that whole purpose.

Expert Players would shift according to the song choice rather than skill. For example, I can SDG 'Ketsarku Mozgalom' (FGO) but I can't break 15 goods on 4 Chord Touhou (FMO).. I can do Burst > JS (JumpStream)..

For the other divisions it would be a matter of how lucky you get by barely beating the person behind you and not being thrown into another division. Also, any player who gets a 'Skill Boost' would be screwed since they would be moved up but not be good enough to place well in that division..

P.s. Overall, there just needs to be a D6. I'm still being placed in D5 and I can't really beat any of the top D4 players (score wise). 2 Years ago AAAing an FGO was 'OMG' now it's 'meh'

It wouldn't be that easy to move up in ranks, doing good in one song won't bump you up. Consistently doing better than the rest will.

If you got a 'skill boost' then you would do well in a division above, as the divisions (skill-wise) are tight and you wouldn't be placed in a division you'd do horrible in.

Remember a jump from D3-D4 in this tournament wouldn't be nearly the same as jumping from D3-D4 in the current style.

**devonin** · 09-8-2009, 02:26 PM

So what you're saying is "If you're winning, you're in the wrong division and need to be put to where you aren't winning anymore"

tj28 · 09-8-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin

Adding an extra division wouldn't make this problem any better whatsoever. It either splits D5 into two parts, or it screws over some of the top of D4 by putting them in D5 while a bunch of D5 went into D6.

As for the "mobile" divisions. Are people ever actually eliminated in that plan of yours? If I score horribly, I get moved down a division...that means I don't get eliminated? WHat if I go from D4 to D3 in say, round 6. What place am I in in D3? Based only on my scores obtained after I get moved down?

Yes there would be cutoffs.
As for the movement in later rounds, if you were moved from D4 to D3 you would place at the bottom of the current alive players, and bump eliminated players down in rank.
The rankings wouldn't matter much though, as only first place would receive vROFL.

Also, lower divisions (D1/D2) shouldn't get vROFL in this style. They wouldn't (shouldn't

) have the skill to play the song anyway, so a credit reward would be used instead.
This brings the vROFL giveaway back down to 8 players, and may cutoff some BS'ers.

**devonin** · 09-8-2009, 02:31 PM

So if you're in D4 and doing poorly, you get moved to the BOTTOM of the division below you? I'm assuming given how you're talking here, that scoring and ranking are done as a points-earned system, since with no eliminations, you can't just rank people by the score they -just- got like you do in an elimination tourney.

tj28 · 09-8-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin

So what you're saying is "If you're winning, you're in the wrong division and need to be put to where you aren't winning anymore"

I'm saying "If you're winning by a landslide and are much better than your division, you are bumped up for a better challenge."

The leaders of the round should only be leading with a few less goods, not insanely better.

**devonin** · 09-8-2009, 02:34 PM

But in that case, how do you determine, say, whether I'm too good for my division, or just whether my division has many people placed too high?

As in, what are your standards for divisions to determine whether it's a case of good people needing to go up, or bad people needing to go down?

Also, all you'd be creating is a situation where someone tries to sup the current top score by as little as possible, and then sits on it until someone does the same to them. There's no benefit to working your ass off to try and get that AAA since if you do that more than others in your division, you'll get moved up to where you'll lose.

Also, fixed the horrendous grammar in the thread title. It was making me cringe every time I saw it.

tj28 · 09-8-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin

So if you're in D4 and doing poorly, you get moved to the BOTTOM of the division below you? I'm assuming given how you're talking here, that scoring and ranking are done as a points-earned system, since with no eliminations, you can't just rank people by the score they -just- got like you do in an elimination tourney.

Moving players wouldn't be done freely, if you did poorly in D4, you would join the current 'survivors' of D3 the next round, be placed one rank below them, and bump the eliminated players down.

The problem with a points-earned system is that you could do good enough in D1 and rack up points (opponents wouldn't be as hard to overtake at that level), then get bumped to D2/D3 with more points than the players who were working hard the entire tournament.

**devonin** · 09-8-2009, 02:38 PM

Bump the eliminated players down? What does that even mean? Now they're eliminated in division 2 instead of eliminated in division 3?

**dragonmegaXX** · 09-8-2009, 02:42 PM

I would prefer to stay in 1 division for a while.
If a person get a skill boost in the middle of tournament, good for them, they worked for it.

Theres a difference in a person being good for a divison, and a blatant misplacement to begin with. There always has to be someone whos best, and doing this just ruins kind of the point of trying to be the best, because as soon as you become the best, your thrown somewhere else to be the worst, and considering 90% of us wont reach AJ or Rubix level godness, we want some claim to fame for our skill level.

tj28 · 09-8-2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin

Bump the eliminated players down? What does that even mean? Now they're eliminated in division 2 instead of eliminated in division 3?

If you were eliminated in D3 at rank 10, and someone gets moved to D3, you would move to rank 11 and they would take your place. This is assuming you just missed the cutoff.

This would cause a chain reaction and cause all of the other eliminated players in that division to go down a single rank.

The cutoffs can't be predetermined with this, the amount of players in each division is unpredictable.

**Sprite-** · 09-8-2009, 02:46 PM

Lol dev, I was going to change the title too, but I forgot.

tj28 · 09-8-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonmegaXX

I would prefer to stay in 1 division for a while.
If a person get a skill boost in the middle of tournament, good for them, they worked for it.

Theres a difference in a person being good for a divison, and a blatant misplacement to begin with. There always has to be someone whos best, and doing this just ruins kind of the point of trying to be the best, because as soon as you become the best, your thrown somewhere else to be the worst, and considering 90% of us wont reach AJ or Rubix level godness, we want some claim to fame for our skill level.

The thing with this is, the best in a division wouldn't be ridiculously better than the other players in the same division.

If you get moved up, there was a reason, and your skill level would be good enough to compete in that division.

You need to remember there are ten divisions, and going up one division wouldn't be as nearly as major as going one up in the current style.

tj28 · 09-8-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin

But in that case, how do you determine, say, whether I'm too good for my division, or just whether my division has many people placed too high?

As in, what are your standards for divisions to determine whether it's a case of good people needing to go up, or bad people needing to go down?

Also, all you'd be creating is a situation where someone tries to sup the current top score by as little as possible, and then sits on it until someone does the same to them. There's no benefit to working your ass off to try and get that AAA since if you do that more than others in your division, you'll get moved up to where you'll lose.

Also, fixed the horrendous grammar in the thread title. It was making me cringe every time I saw it.

There would be a general idea of what a D1-D10 player could do, such as what we have now. If you were above that than you'd be bumped up.
Original placements wouldn't last long, and if many people were placed too high then they'd be moved. The divisions wouldn't be as big, so this shouldn't be the case.

The situation made would risk the person trying to sandbag that division to get supped at the last minute.
Most of the BS'ers I assume are alts, and aren't on daily.

Edit: Sorry about the title, I wasn't paying attention.

09-8-2009, 01:46 PM	#1
tj28 FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 201	How the tournament should have gone. My idea is 'mobile divisions'. Have about 10 divisions. Initial placement will be as usual; placed by levelrank/tier points. But, these divisions move. Players will be moved up and down divisions throughout the tournament based on their current skill level. If player A does significantly better in D6 than players B and C, then player A will be moved to a higher division (D7/D8). Anti-Sandbagging: If you submit a score just good enough to be above the cutoff, then you risk getting supped at the last minute. If you post a score significantly lower than the skill level you were placed at to go down a division, you wouldn't do so. (If you had VC AAAs when initially placed and you suddenly couldn't FC a C, you wouldn't be moved down.) It would be harder to go down than up, which will mean many of the players will be in high divisions by the end. Remember that D1 was a huge division though, non-BS D1 players can actually participate in the lowest divisions. Anti-Misplacement: If you are initially placed too high, and genuinely aren't at that skill level, you can be moved down if seen fit. A true D3 player will stay at D3 the entire tournament, playing other D3 players and a potential BS'er for one round. Prizes: 1st to all ten divisions gets vROFL, and whatever you want to do with credits/t-shirts is up to the host. Cons: Lowest divisions will be nearly empty by the end. BS'ers could still try to stay in low divisions, but it won't be nearly as easy. This may not be in the right section, so move if required. Open to all questions/ideas/comments.

09-8-2009, 01:50 PM	#2
who_cares973 FFR Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: :U Age: 35 Posts: 15,407	Re: How the tournament should of went. I was expecting a complain thread but I like this idea __________________

09-8-2009, 01:54 PM	#3
Sprite- HAVE ME WITH VODKA Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Long Island, New York Age: 35 Posts: 7,316	Re: How the tournament should of went. This is basically the same thing as the OOL..

09-8-2009, 01:54 PM	#4
xBBx Takedown FFR Veteran Join Date: Sep 2007 Age: 31 Posts: 2,624	Re: How the tournament should of went. I like this idea TJ. Excellent excellent idea. __________________ Dragons Fury: Custom Tournament #5-1st Place(D3B) Best FMO Score-Battle Theme #37(8.0.0.1) Best AAA-Sword Strike Best BF-Be Princess and Mute City Remix

09-8-2009, 02:13 PM	#6
Oni-Paranoia No fucks Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Everywhere Posts: 2,440	Re: How the tournament should of went. This idea is 'okay' but it has many flaws.. The point of a tournament is to win. If your in a certain division, that is where you will stay for the remainder and your goal is to be the best out of everyone in that division. This idea defeats that whole purpose. Expert Players would shift according to the song choice rather than skill. For example, I can SDG 'Ketsarku Mozgalom' (FGO) but I can't break 15 goods on 4 Chord Touhou (FMO).. I can do Burst > JS (JumpStream).. For the other divisions it would be a matter of how lucky you get by barely beating the person behind you and not being thrown into another division. Also, any player who gets a 'Skill Boost' would be screwed since they would be moved up but not be good enough to place well in that division.. P.s. Overall, there just needs to be a D6. I'm still being placed in D5 and I can't really beat any of the top D4 players (score wise). 2 Years ago AAAing an FGO was 'OMG' now it's 'meh'

09-8-2009, 02:18 PM	#7
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: How the tournament should of went. Adding an extra division wouldn't make this problem any better whatsoever. It either splits D5 into two parts, or it screws over some of the top of D4 by putting them in D5 while a bunch of D5 went into D6. As for the "mobile" divisions. Are people ever actually eliminated in that plan of yours? If I score horribly, I get moved down a division...that means I don't get eliminated? WHat if I go from D4 to D3 in say, round 6. What place am I in in D3? Based only on my scores obtained after I get moved down?

09-8-2009, 02:26 PM	#9
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: How the tournament should of went. So what you're saying is "If you're winning, you're in the wrong division and need to be put to where you aren't winning anymore"

09-8-2009, 02:31 PM	#11
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: How the tournament should of went. So if you're in D4 and doing poorly, you get moved to the BOTTOM of the division below you? I'm assuming given how you're talking here, that scoring and ranking are done as a points-earned system, since with no eliminations, you can't just rank people by the score they -just- got like you do in an elimination tourney.

09-8-2009, 02:34 PM	#13
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: How the tournament should of went. But in that case, how do you determine, say, whether I'm too good for my division, or just whether my division has many people placed too high? As in, what are your standards for divisions to determine whether it's a case of good people needing to go up, or bad people needing to go down? Also, all you'd be creating is a situation where someone tries to sup the current top score by as little as possible, and then sits on it until someone does the same to them. There's no benefit to working your ass off to try and get that AAA since if you do that more than others in your division, you'll get moved up to where you'll lose. Also, fixed the horrendous grammar in the thread title. It was making me cringe every time I saw it.

09-8-2009, 02:38 PM	#15
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: How the tournament should have gone. Bump the eliminated players down? What does that even mean? Now they're eliminated in division 2 instead of eliminated in division 3?

09-8-2009, 02:42 PM	#16
dragonmegaXX ITG playing fur Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 3,660	Re: How the tournament should have gone. I would prefer to stay in 1 division for a while. If a person get a skill boost in the middle of tournament, good for them, they worked for it. Theres a difference in a person being good for a divison, and a blatant misplacement to begin with. There always has to be someone whos best, and doing this just ruins kind of the point of trying to be the best, because as soon as you become the best, your thrown somewhere else to be the worst, and considering 90% of us wont reach AJ or Rubix level godness, we want some claim to fame for our skill level. __________________

09-8-2009, 02:46 PM	#18
Sprite- HAVE ME WITH VODKA Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Long Island, New York Age: 35 Posts: 7,316	Re: How the tournament should have gone. Lol dev, I was going to change the title too, but I forgot.

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