[Discussion] Homework and General Information Subsection

[devonin]

Quoted from a private message I sent to JasonKey

I've done some talking with Guido, and we think that it would be a good idea to add a sub-forum inside CT specifically for users looking for help with homework.

It belongs more closely to the CT post style than it does to chit-chat, and in addition to getting all such threads -out- of chit-chat, having them in CT increases the chance that they'll get useful help instead of flames and trolling.

I'd also considered the possibility of adding in a seperate subsection for requests for information on various subjects.

In CT itself, posting a thread just asking "tell me about X" tends to get it either locked or moved to chit-chat depending on what X is, since CT is for active discussion and debate, but I still think the forum could benefit from a section containing information on a variety of subjects, links to relevant webpages and names of books etc.

While this could be conceivably be rolled into the homework section, my crazy idealism is imagining this wonderful lecture-style forum where the college and university students who frequent CT can provide help and useful information for all the highschoolers etc.

Upon some additional reflection and consultation with GuidoHunter, it seems to me that the best course of action would be to make just one additional sub-forum "Homework and General Information"

JasonKey suggested I make a thread here about it to get some discussion going on who thinks this is a good idea, and perhaps some more refinement as to just how such a sub-section should operate, but I really do think there's a need for such a section, and I think it would see use.

What do you think?

[Kilgamayan]

You still have this problem? Jesus. I guess some things never change.

I don't see how it would be a bad idea; the problem would be proper execution.

- If you're going to help other users with their homework, it should be just that - help. Other users shouldn't simply be giving answers away.
- For quick reference purposes, I would also suggest requesting people put the class subject in their topic title. It's not much, but it's a few seconds extra work for the helpee rather than a few seconds extra work for the potential helper, and I figure you might as well be nice to the people giving help.
- Anything that can be answered by a quick trip to Google or Wikipedia is not worth making a topic about.

If I think of anything else I'll be sure to let you know. I'll try to give it some thought at work tomorrow.

[GamerShadow]

I like the idea; it would help to free up CT a bit. Obviously, people can't give other people the answers, and I think that if this suggestion goes through, it should be a bannable offense. Otherwise, I think this is a great idea.

[Rubin0]

I think it's a good idea as long as people are explaining answers and how they came to that conclusion to the OP instead of just giving it to them. I would personally take advantage of a sub forum that had to do with homework help. I always need help expanding my ideas when writing a paper. I don't think it's cheating to ask for opinions.

[danny53x]

Good idea, but as Kilgamayan said, a simple answerable topic should be locked, however it may result in too many locks and confused users. Maybe there should be something like a mild version of CT.

[devonin]

I'd have every intention of moderating the homework section pretty heavily. Someone asking just for solutions gets a lock, someone just handing out solutions would get a lock.

I'd actually expect such a forum to be -full- of locked threads, and I don't really see it as a thing that would be confusing. Asked and answered means we don't need to keep the thread open.

[Tasselfoot]

Kilga hit upon why it has never been added previously. But. I have confidence that devonin would live up to his claims of heavy moderation of such a forum, which makes me lean much more heavily towards creating it than continuing to prevent it.

As has been pointed out (but to reiterate), it would have to be for assistance only, not solutions, with forum-wide consequences for not following this [moreso on the person who gives the answers than the one asking the question. my assumption is that the person asking for answers doesn't know any better and is a newbie, whereas the one giving the answers should be smart enough to know better]. In addition, the course aid could work as well, but I don't know how useful that would be, given that there are a TON of references for that kind of material throughout the web, easily obtainable, for just about any subject matter.

When I get back to LA, remind me about this again and I'll finalize something with Jason. Probably can get it added on Thursday.

[Cosmic M]

Seems like a decent idea, but i do think that telling straight up answers should be allowed as long as the person explains how they arrived there so that the TC can apply it to all future problems. Not being able to give out actual answers seems dumb.

EDIT: It would also be good for people to post essays and recive feedback.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

As has been pointed out (but to reiterate), it would have to be for assistance only, not solutions, with forum-wide consequences for not following this [moreso on the person who gives the answers than the one asking the question.

That's perfectly fine by me, but unless permissions are expandable inside individual forums, it would require attention from someone higher up the food chain than me, since I can't ban people.

In addition, the course aid could work as well, but I don't know how useful that would be, given that there are a TON of references for that kind of material throughout the web, easily obtainable, for just about any subject matter.

As long as people don't decide to be jerks and just go "I'll link to the wiki page on whatever you were asking about, hurr hurr I'm clever" I think it could still be useful even just as a nice compliation of links to such places. There are all kinds of resources (plenty much much more academically sound than wiki even) on all kinds of subjects that a lot of people maybe aren't aware of, and that's the kind of information we could be looking at.

When I get back to LA, remind me about this again and I'll finalize something with Jason. Probably can get it added on Thursday.

Cool beans.

And as for Kilga's points, I had envisioned something very similar, where I'd -require- that all thread titles follow a specific format, something like
[level of schooling] (subject) topic

So something like:

[Highschool] (math) help with trig identities
[College] (philosophy) I don't get 'Will to power'

So we know what level of help they need, what subject matter, and what the actual problem is. As I said, it would be a heavily moderated forum. Jackass posts would just get flat deleted, doing so repeatedly could easily result in a short forum ban. All that has ever been lacking to make such a forum perfectly workable was someone who had the time and desire to make sure it kept running in a satisfactory way.

[bluguerrilla]

This seems like a really good idea.

Also, it's fun to help with homework.

I had more to say but most everything that needed to be said has been.

[Kilgamayan]

Originally Posted by devonin

And as for Kilga's points, I had envisioned something very similar, where I'd -require- that all thread titles follow a specific format, something like
[level of schooling] (subject) topic

So something like:

[Highschool] (math) help with trig identities
[College] (philosophy) I don't get 'Will to power'

YES YES YES Do this.

[Go_Oilers_Go]

Originally Posted by Cosmic M

EDIT: It would also be good for people to post essays and recive feedback.

The only feedback that one could provide on an essay would be to give hints for the writer to improve his/her writing style. Any other feedback would likely be interpreted as giving answers. Think that would be cool, though.

In regards to the actual topic, I think it would be a great idea since I've observed some high level intelligence in the CT forum. Plus I have a homework question posted in here which devonin said he would assist me with, but never did.

[devonin]

You told me that you needed the information by a certain date because you were leaving, and I wasn't able to get it by then, so I assumed the useful time had passed. I apologise if that wasn't the case.

Also, I'd support the idea of posting essays for feedback on style and format. The only way you could be "giving answers" while giving feedback on someone's essay would be to suggest the inclusion of certain information or to point out that certain information seems to be incorrect. Neither of those is really giving answers either.

Posting, asking someone to just flat out edit their paper though, might be a problem.

[ddr_f4n]

This would be a great idea. Those who struggle in school can rely on the FFR community to help. I just hope they won't get carried away by posting every single question of their homework in their threads.

Devonin, we rely on you.

[Tasselfoot]

ddr fan: that's the point though. someone who is struggling in school won't be that aided by this. we don't want it to be a crutch for lazy middle schoolers. we want it to continue CT, helping someone work through a problem or issue instead of telling them how to do that specific issue.

it's like the adage: give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. teach him how to fish, and he'll eat forever. if you give someone the answer and methodology for 1 specific problem, likely he/she'll just take it and use it and that'll be it. that person won't actually learn anything. but if you explain the process or logic behind the question, you can help them understand how to do any similar problem.



hm. i was about to make the subforum... but i don't want to do that before devonin can write up some rules. so, devonin, if you have the time... please write up some rules tonight. i'll add this tomorrow and you can toss in your sticky.

and as far as banning... you can just let me know of any issues that arise and i'll take care of them.

[devonin]

I'll just make a sticky here in this forum, and when you make the new one, you can just slide it in there.

[Relambrien]

A bit late, but I might as well add my input.

I like the idea, though it would have to be pulled off correctly. Requiring a specific format for titles is ideal. Also, if the sub-forum will encompass both homework help and lecture-style information, then there should be a way of differentiating them. So I was thinking something like...

[ Level - Subject ] Title
[ Lecture ] Title

So something like...

[ High school - Calculus ] Implicit Differentiation
[ High school - English ] Destiny
[ Information ] Implicit Differentiation

The first is basic math help, the second would be an essay requesting feedback, and the third would be an informational post. Also, having everything in one set of brackets makes it look neater than brackets followed by parentheses.

And obviously there should be a rules thread, saying what you can post, and what you can't. Using the above example of implicit differentiation, one would be allowed to post the process for solution, but not the solution itself. Essay critiquing I doubt needs much guidance; unless you're writing the thing for someone, everything else is pretty acceptable. As I recall, having others look at and help you critique your work is encouraged in most classes.

And if the forum gets pretty active, then adding a "Thread Finder" wouldn't be a bad idea. It could link to the better informational posts, certain general homework questions, etc. But if it moves at the rate CT does, I doubt such a thread would be needed.

[Sullyman2007]

I support this idea, but I strongly agree with what Relambrien said on requiring a specific format. I fear that if you just let this lose without proper format, it would turn into a lose collaboration of "wats pi?" type threads mixed in with the occasional poster looking for real help.

[ High school - Calculus ] Implicit Differentiation
[ High school - English ] Destiny
[ Information ] Implicit Differentiation

100% yes.