07-31-2007, 02:11 PM | #101 |
FFR Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 38
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
no, it's just usually after being disproved several time, people just give up. It's nice to see someone persistent.
I am surprised, however, that you would make assumptions about me based on one of the only irrelevant things I said in my post. |
07-31-2007, 02:22 PM | #102 |
Super Scooter Happy
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
I imagine that if someone is "disproved" and keeps going then they're just in denial. I haven't seen a formal logical proof from either of them that their side is correct, so no one has been "disproven" yet.
As for your second point, your use of "survived" in the context of a debate tells me enough about you to make the assumption that you think that the purpose of a debate is simply to have a contest to see who's "right".
__________________
I watched clouds awobbly from the floor o' that kayak. Souls cross ages like clouds cross skies, an' tho' a cloud's shape nor hue nor size don't stay the same, it's still a cloud an' so is a soul. Who can say where the cloud's blowed from or who the soul'll be 'morrow? Only Sonmi the east an' the west an' the compass an' the atlas, yay, only the atlas o' clouds. |
07-31-2007, 03:27 PM | #103 |
FFR Player
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Yea I say so because I dont like school
__________________
|
07-31-2007, 11:31 PM | #104 | |||||||||||||||
Little Chief Hare
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||||||||||||
07-31-2007, 11:41 PM | #105 | |||
Little Chief Hare
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Well, they are technically proven in the Austrian school by necessity, and they are largely confirmed by historical/empiricist accounts such as Friedman's. There's a very large chunk of economists who consider at least the basics of what I'm saying to be correct. I haven't seen your reference what schools support your viewpoint. Perhaps you should and I should inform you of responses made to them? Or you could read the books I recommended.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
08-2-2007, 02:25 AM | #106 | |||||||
sunshine and rainbows
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 41
Posts: 1,987
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What exactly is the definition of free market anyways? (A little late, I know). Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Cavernio; 08-2-2007 at 02:28 AM.. |
|||||||
08-2-2007, 03:11 AM | #107 | |||
sunshine and rainbows
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 41
Posts: 1,987
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Quote:
Furthermore, I don't want you to simply state what someone else has said in response to things I'm saying, unless it addresses what I've said perfectly. I can't imagine that that'd be interesting to you anyways, simply regurgitating what someone else has written. Nor do I like the tone you're oozing in this post I'm responding to. I'd like it if you refrain in your next post (if you have one) from implying or stating my ideas are poor because I've not studied the matter. Bad ideas speak for themselves. Quote:
Quote:
You wrongly assumed that I was trying to support my viewpoint in my discussion with you, or something. I was trying to get at what lord carbo said, with the implication that there is no guarantee that it would cost an individual the same amount of money to go to individually run schools as it costs the government for each individual child, if everything else in the economy were to remain the same. Last edited by Cavernio; 08-2-2007 at 03:15 AM.. |
|||
08-2-2007, 02:39 PM | #108 |
FFR Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Age: 31
Posts: 971
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Where I live (Canada) many of the schools that I have went to were also poor. Many of the teachers don't even know what they are teaching us, they are just reading what was giving to them. I think the enthusiasm of the teacher affects the learning ability of the student. Money doesn't have as much of an impact as the teacher. They are the ones teaching them everything they need to know and if the student needs further explanation they have to know the subject to give a good response. If you have ever gone to a private school before, you will see that they have a very educated staff, much more than the public school staff. Public schools are not "bad" for students in America, it's just the problem of picking the right people for the job. They could just pick people off the street if they wanted to.
Another problem that is happening is that they are taking away seperate teachers in my board. They are giving everyone a single teacher to teach the arts (music,art etc..), so the teachers don't know all of the things they are teaching. I think that is just absurd because the stupid government thinks that they can just do that so they don't have to pay as much. But I bet you that test scores will plummet because they are not getting the best education from their one teacher for every single subject. But the government jsut says, "Oh who cares! It gives us more money."
__________________
Best FC's: Adult's Sketchbook, Turbulence, Hellbeat v1 Want a favourites category in FFR? If so, click Here. |
08-2-2007, 02:48 PM | #109 | |
FFR Player
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Quote:
|
|
08-2-2007, 03:21 PM | #110 | |||||||||||||
Little Chief Hare
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Quote:
Quote:
I'm just going to point out things that are wrong now and if you want to figure out why you can either legitimately read and understand what I wrote or you can try to read and understand those books I gave you to reference, although good luck with that. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
In any case, rights are negative (negative not meaning "bad" but meaning "consigned to issues of subtraction, not addition") Quote:
Well, the wikipedia definition is as follows: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||||||||||
08-2-2007, 03:37 PM | #111 | |||||||||||
Little Chief Hare
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Objection 2: of course there isn't a guarantee it would remain the same price, but that isn't the issue. Based on the predictive value of the model, it is of high likelihood that the cost would decrease. Even if it didn't the cost would optimize itself in accordance with the cumulatively averaged subjective value of the service provided. |
|||||||||||
08-2-2007, 03:45 PM | #112 | |
Little Chief Hare
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Quote:
The point is this: Similar mechanisms are at work in India and the US, so the comparison is valid. Of course there are variances, but they can be accounted for. |
|
08-2-2007, 04:47 PM | #113 |
sunshine and rainbows
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 41
Posts: 1,987
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
What you're saying is that suppression brought in by a market is OK, because it stems from inequality, while suppression brought in by government isn't. The nature of the inequality does matter. Its perfectly coherent to say that I don't want genetic equality, yet I don't want to be suppressed because I was born poor. Oh, that's right, everyone in a free market has equal opportunity, because its apparently all equal if I've got to only eat 1 meal a day for my kid to go to school, while the family a street down looses their pocket change.
What's irrelevant to you is relevant to me. It boils down to ideology, like I said in the first place. There's no point in arguing the issue anymore. Furthermore, you've put words into my mouth twice now, along with turning into a jerk. |
08-2-2007, 07:08 PM | #114 | ||||||
Little Chief Hare
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Yes it does. Inherent inequality doesn't have any human impositions of adverse conditions; involuntarily caused inequality does. Human impositions are under human control, genetic, biological, and many other things are not. Moreover starting conditions are not equivalent to impositions.
Quote:
Quote:
At any rate, what you are describing would almost certainly never occur in a truly free market. If you want to know why, then you can try reading and understanding either what I have written or the books I have suggested to you. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Kilroy_x; 08-2-2007 at 07:40 PM.. |
||||||
08-3-2007, 01:20 PM | #115 | ||||
sunshine and rainbows
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 41
Posts: 1,987
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Insidious suppression is still suppression.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You might like not being one. Free market follows supply and demand, and you say the sum of all the transactions between free people result in the fairest way of determing supply and demand. That's fine. The market no longer becomes free as soon as coersion starts though, and there's absolutely nothing to say that coersion won't happen immediately in all transactions, in a free market. The only way to get non-coersion is to, paradoxically, enforce it. This also makes it impossible to strive for. The best way of doing that is to instill morals in people so that they will feel bad and not do those things, but that's hardly foolproof. You say that the points I have raised are all moot, because they don't happen in a free market. My point is that free market is unattainable, therefore all your points are moot. Also, you've used the word irrelevant when, upon further reading, you really mean moot. Moot's a very good word to learn. Last edited by Cavernio; 08-3-2007 at 01:22 PM.. |
||||
08-3-2007, 03:06 PM | #116 | |||||||||
Little Chief Hare
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
"Insidious" as a word doesn't work there. Again, you're saying that conditions people are born into=oppression. Actually you're not even saying that, you're saying the fact people aren't born into relatively higher positions=oppression. To which my response is, variance is natural, when it isn't a result of involuntary impositions it's fine, and the only way to get rid of such variance is destroy everything.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Kilroy_x; 08-3-2007 at 03:09 PM.. |
|||||||||
08-3-2007, 07:16 PM | #117 | |||
sunshine and rainbows
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 41
Posts: 1,987
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Quote:
Which explains why you like putting 'wrong' words into my mouth. Of course, I'd rather be right than popular too. However, I don't think one's level of jerkiness is strongly related to popularity, nor that being right and popularity are mutually exclusive Behavioural reinforcement is only a very specific subset of what I was talking about. Quote:
Quote:
A moot point is also an irrelevant point, one is the subset of the other. |
|||
08-3-2007, 07:33 PM | #118 | ||||||
Little Chief Hare
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||||
08-4-2007, 03:30 AM | #119 |
FFR Music Producers
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
American public schools suck dick for money. I can very safely say this because I used to live in Singapore, where public schooling is TOO good, if anything, and have observed both sides of the coin.
It's kinda weird because American colleges are comparatively very good.
__________________
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff |
08-4-2007, 11:51 AM | #120 |
Super Scooter Happy
|
Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?
That's because American colleges can control who they accept. If you don't meet a college's standards you're not getting in. The public school system does not have any such barrier to entry, and in fact America is big on making sure everyone gets into school whether they're "normal" or not (No Child Left Behind).
Incidentally, this is why American public school compare poorly to those of other countries - if you observed a middle school in, say, China or Japan, you're far less likely to find students that are legitimately behaviorally dysfunctional. Their societies are okay with this, but of course America would drown in a sea of lawsuits if they tried to do the same thing.
__________________
I watched clouds awobbly from the floor o' that kayak. Souls cross ages like clouds cross skies, an' tho' a cloud's shape nor hue nor size don't stay the same, it's still a cloud an' so is a soul. Who can say where the cloud's blowed from or who the soul'll be 'morrow? Only Sonmi the east an' the west an' the compass an' the atlas, yay, only the atlas o' clouds. Last edited by Kilgamayan; 08-4-2007 at 11:57 AM.. |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|