Interesting indeed

[RedNovember]

ok here it is. You say that there are infinte worlds. Since all can't have life, you say there are finite number of life supporting worlds. Let's think about this.
Since there are infinite planets, it therefore follows that since any subtraction from infinity is infinity, there are infinte number of life supporting planets.
Infinite never changes. It is the only quantity to never change.

[Anticrombie0909]

But technically, infinite isn't a quantity, either. It should be treated existentially, more of a forumula than anything else, since it's not a true number.

[makaveli121212]

Originally Posted by 87x

There is no "proof" in bible or in science to say that.. also... they ate the fruit the first day of being creates )as i remember) of course there was no death or disease yet.. but if they hadn't of ate the fruit would life today be perfect? people not being abel to get disease?? no sin.. i doubt it.. and this is all based on the assumption that this all actually happened..

no matter which is formed first, over time they both would of been present.. the amino acids are the building blocks of DNA.. so if two amino acids were to come together somehow yo would have a trait.. something VERY simple.. but a trait.. which would form into a cell.. which takes you to single celled organisms... add the mutation and adaptation theory's and you have evolution..

if you dont believe the bible then fine, i guess i cant prove it...but who can prove the bible is true...

two amino acids do not make a trait...they are a base pair that would code for a trait...there is nothing that is 1 base pair long that codes for a triat...plus what would do the translation...there is no polymerase around...DNA and RNA do not make cells...also there is no "proof" as you call it that life on this planet started like that...i would believe more in the Panspermial theory myself, but i wont get into it...

to centright...you say religion has many different interpretations, well so does science...science is in no way indisbutable

to falcon...i believe the guys who did those experiments were Miller and Fox...actually i am pretty damn sure...also King Henry the 8th was trying to break away from the Catholic church so he could form the Anglican church, so he could get a divorce...i think he had 6 overall

[87x]

well maka.. when i was talkin about the Amino acids comming together to form a trait.. i really idnt mean "two come together"... i was talking in basis.. i was hopeing for people to understand my logic and realize that i was talking about more than just one pair.. and the base pairs you are talking about are ATGC.. Atonine, Tyhmine, Guanine, and Cytocine (someone tell me if those are right.. i might be thinking about RNA)... well anyway you look at it.. things don't magically appear, unless you don't believe in reason (IE. believe in religion)..

[makaveli121212]

why shoot down religion...where did amino acids magically appear out of no where...btw it is Adenine and the others are right...and yes that is what im talking about...did you get the part when i said DNA doesnt make cells...and the base pairs in RNA are the same except instead of Thymine it has Urasil...also for a base pair to be made each base needs a phosphate and a sugar group...i dont know if there was much PO4 to go around in the early days of the earth..ill find out later...you know you have this grudge against me i dont know why, but it seems you dont know to well what you are talking about when it comes to DNA RNA and the beginnings of life on earth, so if i were you id stop making a fool of myself

[RageVI]

I'd just like to say something about the first quote. I still think it's very cool, and very interesting, but flawed in my opinion.

Okay, so there are infinite planets. Only some of them are inhabited. There would be some fraction of inhabited vs. uninhabited planets. It doesnt matter how small this fraction is (like 1/1000000000000000000000000), but any fraction of infinity is still infinity, meaning there would be an infinite population.

This goes back to a discussion we had in AP Calculus.

Let's say on a line graph.
There are points plotted on 1, 2, and 3

There are an infinite amount of points that you could place between 1 and 2 (like 1.1, 1.01, 1.001, etc.). This is also true with 2 to 3 (2.01, 2.001, etc.)

But what about from 1 to 3? There still is an infinite amount of points you could place in there, but isnt there more that you could place than in the smaller increments? After all, it goes from 1 all the way to 3

In other words, could one infinity be larger than another?

[jewpinthethird]

UGH...MY BRAIN...IT IS SO FULL OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS...UGH!!!

[scorpio1690]

Originally Posted by RageVI

I'd just like to say something about the first quote. I still think it's very cool, and very interesting, but flawed in my opinion.

Okay, so there are infinite planets. Only some of them are inhabited. There would be some fraction of inhabited vs. uninhabited planets. It doesnt matter how small this fraction is (like 1/1000000000000000000000000), but any fraction of infinity is still infinity, meaning there would be an infinite population.

This goes back to a discussion we had in AP Calculus.

Let's say on a line graph.
There are points plotted on 1, 2, and 3

There are an infinite amount of points that you could place between 1 and 2 (like 1.1, 1.01, 1.001, etc.). This is also true with 2 to 3 (2.01, 2.001, etc.)

But what about from 1 to 3? There still is an infinite amount of points you could place in there, but isnt there more that you could place than in the smaller increments? After all, it goes from 1 all the way to 3

In other words, could one infinity be larger than another?

Originally Posted by scorpio1690

In that post you have brought one new fact to our attention. Infinity divided by infinity could not eequal one seeing how infinity is everlasting and goes on forever, therefore, in order to KNOW that infinity divided by infinity equals one is by giving it a numerical value like

67, 3456, 3478, 9562, 3789, 4562, 7895, 6347, 8956, 7863, 4789, 5623, 4789

Therefore it defeats it's own definition, because infinity goes on forever. In fact, infinity divided by infinity could equal something like -5. I forget the theory, but it states that there are different levels of infinity. Like, there are moer decimal places between 1 and 2 then there are positive numbers between 1 and a billion. Therefore, between 1 and 2 there is one type of infinity and between one and god knows what there is another level of infinity. Thus making infinity divided my infinity able to equal anything.

[87x]

i dont feel like quoting.. but this is in response to maka..

Im not shooting anything down... Im simply saying that in religion a lot of stuff just happens.. which isn't really possible.. this all goes back to faith.. you can't prove a religion to be correct.. same as you can't prove science to be incorrect... I like knowing the who, what, when, where, why, and how... i want to know why we are here.. [i]what[/] did we come from/what made us.. and you know what.. I would convert to christianity if god came down and just made himself present.. because that would give me the answers i needed to know.. but just having faith in something that can't even be remotely proved is just not for me..

Amino acids appeared out of no where... i agree... evoltuon theory doesn't all the answers either (dont know if you rad this or not.. http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...ghlight=#85291
check my last post on page 1)

and yes.. i understand about the Sugar and phosphates.. isn't that tought in bio 1??.. can't remember exactly.. but yea, i will acknowledge that i had forgoten about the sugar and phosphate part of the DNA chain.. but it still has more logical relevance than some mystical power (god) creating every thing.

and this grudge that you mentioned???.. i dont understand what your talking about.. if i didn't like you for any reason you would know about it.. trust me..

and also i would hope that you didn't take any of this, or anything on the forums, to heart... like you seem to be doing......i really don't see how im making a fool out of myself.. but i guess if you say i am.. i must be.. i will try to stop that from now on..

NOW TO RageVI:

No.. both are infinity.. you can only judge if a number is bigger another number by there end points.. and since infinity doesn't have an end point.. you cant say one is bigger than the other

[Lupin_the_3rd]

lol how can you prove god doesn't exist: he could be doing whatever the fuck he wants with the world like making humans from amino acids or anything...

btw i'm talking in general... if you don't take the bible into account, there is no definite answer as to whether science or god is predominant...

the only way you could prove god doesn't exist is if God came out and said i'm going to create humans from dust...and you proved this impossible, but then that would mean God does exist and that scenario is impossible...

there can be no debate about God vs science
there can be a debate about bible vs science

[Falcon]

the bible is true.

in order to be wholly believed (by its own definition) a scientific theory must be experimentally proven and reproven. evolution and its most basic theories have not done this.

i'll explain these tomorrow. i've got a couple other things i'd like to talk about as well. but my brain doesnt have the capacity to do that at the moment. until tomorrow...

[kineom34]

Hmm . . . This having turned into a little discussion on God, I thought to share this . . .
My friend recently wrote a paper on God's non-existence. IN it he included this, which I found amusing:
If God exists, He is omnibenevolent.
If God exists, He is omnipotent.
An omnibenevolent god would not permit evil to exist.
An omnipotent god would have the power to prevent evil's existence.
Therefore, if God exists, evil does not exist.
Evil exists.
Therefore, God does not exist.
Just thought you may like to read, if you haven't before.

[altairian]

Ok time for me to throw my hat in the ring on this whole infinity bit, since I just took a course on logic and proofs and the last thing we covered was cardinality, I know a thing or two

(this will get a little technical and if you don't know anything about mathematical sets and number theory, you might not understand everything I say)
First off, what cardinality is, is basically taking 2 sets of anything and saying "these sets are the same size" or "these sets are not the same size". There are also two classifications of infinity, countably infinite and uncountably infinite. So we all know that the set of all positive integers is infinite right? But the set of all integers is countably infinite because you can count the number of elements between any two elements within the set (in other words, you know how many integers there are between, for example, 1 and 1,000,000,000,000,000,000). It's the set of positive integers that is used for cardinality comparisons in higher mathematics. The reason I'm saying all this is because the set of all planets in the universe would also be considered countably infinite...and I just think it's really interesting
For anyone wondering, the main difference between countably and uncountably infinite sets is that the countable ones we can actually kind of comprehend the size of in our minds... an uncountably infinite set is just too massive to comprehend. If you'd like an example, just think of the set of real numbers. How many real numbers are there between 0 and 1?
To answer Rage, yes one infinity can be larger than another infinity. It's weird I know, but it does make sense.

Ok, sorry about the long explanation, but it does have a real point to it, which is this... Yes the universe is infinite, so yes there is an infinite number of worlds. Since there is an infinite number of worlds, there is also an infinite number of worlds capable of sustaining life. The reason? A smaller infinity is still infinity. If you take the set of all positive even integers, it's still infinite right? Or even the set of all positive integers that are divisible by 10, or 100, or 1,000. No matter how much you tried, how long you lived, how fast you could search, you could never travel around the universe and eventually be able to say "I've visited every planet capable of sustaining life in the universe".

[Falcon]

Hmm . . . This having turned into a little discussion on God, I thought to share this . . .
My friend recently wrote a paper on God's non-existence. IN it he included this, which I found amusing:
If God exists, He is omnibenevolent.
If God exists, He is omnipotent.
An omnibenevolent god would not permit evil to exist.
An omnipotent god would have the power to prevent evil's existence.
Therefore, if God exists, evil does not exist.
Evil exists.
Therefore, God does not exist.
Just thought you may like to read, if you haven't before.

from an email i got.

Did God create Evil?
This will make you think for a while.
At a certain college, there was a professor with a reputation for being
tough on Christians. At the first class every semester, he asked if anyone
was a Christian and proceeded to degrade them and to mock their statement of
faith.
One semester, he asked the question and a young man raised his hand when
asked if anyone was a Christian. The professor asked, "Did God make
everything, young man?" He replied, "Yes sir He did!" The professor responded, "If
God made everything, then He made evil." The student didn't have a response and
the professor was happy to have once again proved the Christian faith to be
a myth.
Then another man raised his hand and asked, "May I ask you something, sir?"
"Yes, you may," responded the professor. The young man stood up and said
"Sir, is there such thing as cold?" "Of course there is, what kind of
question is that? Haven't you ever been cold?"
The young man replied, "Actually, sir, cold doesn't exist. What we consider
to be cold, is really an absence of heat. Absolute zero is when there is
absolutely no heat, but cold does not really exist. We have only created
that term to describe how we feel when heat is not there."
The young man continued, "Sir, is there such a thing as dark?"
Once again, the professor responded "Of course there is." And once
again, the student replied "Actually, sir, darkness does not exist. Darkness is
really only the absence of light. Darkness is only a term man developed to
describe what happens when there is no light present."
Finally, the young man asked, "Sir, is there such thing as evil?" The
professor responded, "Of course. We have rapes, and murders and violence
everywhere in the world, those things are evil."
The student replied, "Actually, sir, evil does not exist. Evil is simply the
Absence of God. Evil is a term man developed to describe the absence of
God. God did not create evil. It isn't like truth, or love, which exist as
virtues like heat or light. Evil is simply the state where God is not present,
like cold without heat or darkness without light."
The professor had nothing to say............

think about that for a minute...

[Lupin_the_3rd]

whoa....that was....really cool....

[jewpinthethird]

It does have a point. But to me, it is nothing more than Chrisitian Propagada. I wouldnt say that Evil is the absence of God, but the absence of Love. By saying it is the absence of God, you are saying that before the belief of one God, the whole world was Evil. Which is not true.

More people have been killed in the name of Christ than in any war. During the Dark-Ages, it was religion that ruled the European world.

I believe that Religion is the fuel for he Human ego. Humans want to believe that there is more to their life than just reproduction. God is like that of a mother to a small child. No matter how much trouble a child gets into, there will always be a parent there to save them and love them. Humans need this comfort. God is also the explaination for all the things that man could not understand at the time (over 2000 years ago).

But just because I believe that, doesnt make it right. But according to Christianity, I am going to hell. It doesnt matter how good a person I was. And if this is true, then God is a pretty f*cked up being.

[Anticrombie0909]

But just because I believe that, doesnt make it right. But according to Christianity, I am going to hell. It doesnt matter how good a person I was. And if this is true, then God is a pretty f*cked up being.

[ultimategamer]

Ok, i'll try to make this post short, cause i would have posted several long and meaningful posts but every time i tried i ended up losing it.

That email about that college professor was really interesting, and is especially vital to any debate trying to prove the existance of God. I, myself, am agnostic. But that isn't whats important. Heres another key, if paradoxial, statement against God that will make anyone's brain churn for atleast a few minutes. This is something my friend told me.

If God is real, he is omnipotent.
If God is omnipotent, he can do anything.
If God can do anything, (this is the important part) then can he create an object so massive and dense, that not even he can move it? If he can, then he cannot do everything. If he does, than he can't do everything. Its a lose-lose situation for Him.

Also, according to that email, evil is the absense of God. But how can this possibly be when God is suppose to be everywhere? If God is not everywhere, He is not "perfect" as things will slip by him or what not. Thus, if evil is indeed the absense of God, God must be imperfect.

[RobbyZero]

This is how it goes down.

If you believe in the whole bible jesus and blablabla story then good for you.

If your like me and don't or just dont know what to believe cause it all sounds so phony and a bunch of bullshit then good for us.

[jewpinthethird]

Originally Posted by ultimategamer

Ok, i'll try to make this post short, cause i would have posted several long and meaningful posts but every time i tried i ended up losing it.

That email about that college professor was really interesting, and is especially vital to any debate trying to prove the existance of God. I, myself, am agnostic. But that isn't whats important. Heres another key, if paradoxial, statement against God that will make anyone's brain churn for atleast a few minutes. This is something my friend told me.

If God is real, he is omnipotent.
If God is omnipotent, he can do anything.
If God can do anything, (this is the important part) then can he create an object so massive and dense, that not even he can move it? If he can, then he cannot do everything. If he does, than he can't do everything. Its a lose-lose situation for Him.

Also, according to that email, evil is the absense of God. But how can this possibly be when God is suppose to be everywhere? If God is not everywhere, He is not "perfect" as things will slip by him or what not. Thus, if evil is indeed the absense of God, God must be imperfect.

Religion isnt perfect. And neither is science. Therefore, neither is right. But, maybe a mixer of the two is. But both sides are too are too arrogant to accept the other.

On the other hand, you have the religious countries of the Middle East fighting like a bunch of ninnies over their religious differences with technology invented/discovered by scientists (nukes, bio warfare etc.). Maybe it is this, the perfect combination of Religion and Science, that results in the end of the world. Maybe that is how it is destined to be.